decker_cky
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Everything posted by decker_cky
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Considering those 80 models do not include your battleline, it makes for a lot of models in the army, which takes a lot of board space and a lot of time. I'd make sure you had movement trays of some kind to speed things up. 80 also might not effectively fit in brayblast trumpet range, if that's the trick you're going for.
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Forgot that desolating beastherd is only 0-1 Cygors too. Still, I think a pile of cygors ambushing could be uncomfortable for a lot of lists that rely on 1-2 key wizards - even if you just soften them, it makes the cygor dispel wounds a greater threat.
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So in terms of potential janky lists, what does everyone think of a desolating herd darkstalker list with 3 ambushing cygors and the brayblast trumpet to assassinate key wizards turn 1?
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What's the obvious benefit to spears? Don't 2 ranks of hand weapons do the same damage as 3 ranks of spears? Even if spears in 3 ranks were better, I'm not sure why you want 3 ranks of ungors attacking. Ungors are the only 25mm base in the army....the advantage being that they are the only unit in the army that 1" melee range models can attack over.
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There's no such thing as facing, so no. Also, there is no use of warhounds which a reasonable person would interpret as powergamey.
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Attached is a photo of the Herdstone base on a CD to get an idea how big it is.
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I can't help be feel that all four marked battalions plus desolating brayherd are better places to run pure warherd than the warherd than the warherd battalion.
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To have only one bad battalion is nothing to complain about. I actually think the bullgor battalion is the weakest one. Extra piling distance is a marginal benefit for bullgors, and is pretty close to irrelevant for doombulls and the monsters. The book has 5-6 battalions that are somewhere between pretty good and really good that allow for easy 1-3 drop armies. The book's biggest flaws in terms of battalions: no monster focused battalion no spawn, hounds, or non-ghorgon/cygor monsters in any battalion ---------- By the way, since nobody has talked about the most important part of this release.....what's up with the herdstone box? Its a two-part high quality box (lid and base) as opposed to the cheap cardboard that is usually used for GW packaging. I'm thinking of keeping the box for storing my cards (they fit perfectly in half of the box), dice and cards.
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Beastlord is much better IMO: -6 attacks, 3+ to hit (reroll 1's), 3+ to wound (reroll failures against characters) -reroll 1's to hit protects against the downside -boosts potential damage from 6 to 18 -advantage of brayherd buffs Doombull -3 attacks, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound (+1 if he dedicates a command point to himself) -boosts potential damage from 9 (plus 2 from horns) to 15 (plus 2 from horns) -advantage of -2 rend rather than -1 -advantage of survivability Given the available armour debuffs, the beastlord's main disadvantage is pretty minor, and for all the flack it takes, once you put it on a dangerous character like a gnarlblade beastlord, the beastlord's command ability is way better than the doombull command ability, which was heavily nerfed.
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I was expecting that to happen - likely advertise them as great models to use for various Greatfrays.
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Shields are the way to go imo. There's lots of sources of reroll 1's available if that's the benefit you want.
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That's my plan for the command ability - 3 point summons are generally pretty marginal, so a well positioned spawn to provide +1 attack to a nearby unit is as good of a use as there is. If the spawn does anything else, it's pure profit. Enlightened on disc are the ideal unit - small footprint, multiple attack profiles, speed to get in position, and a huge damage dealer.
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Chaos hounds will be amazing in a year when they're reduced to 40 pts. Until then, they're a unit that looks great, assuming you have the old metals and not the current ugly plastics. edit - actually...the one value they have is as a screen given their long bases. For 80 pts, you can probably protect almost your entire army from deepstriking threats.
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The big advantage of a unit on foot is that they can lurk behind the lines and provide almost all of their offensive output through 2" melee attacks over other units without risking themselves. Keep them far enough forward that a unit with 1" melee needs to activate and move up within 3" to charge the unit screening the enlightened, so you can counterpunch if charged (benefiting from the rerolls). I'd do multiple units of 3 rather than a bigger unit, to spread the threats out. Other advantage is that you can make foot enlightened from normal tzaangors after making skyfires on disc. Vice versa is not possible. Aside from that....disc enlightened gain so much for a relatively small investment in points. Enlightened on foot are a solid unit. Enlightened on disc are a highlight in what looks like a very strong book.
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I'm thinking of testing something like this: Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos- Greatfray: GavespawnLeadersTzaangor Shaman (180)- GeneralTzaangor Shaman (180)Beastlord (90)- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade Beastlord (90)- Artefact: Volcanic Axe Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)Battleline10 x Tzaangors (180)10 x Tzaangors (180)40 x Ungors (200)- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Gors (80)- Gor-Blades & BeastshieldsUnits10 x Bestigors (120)3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)BattalionsPhantasmagoria of Fate (200)Endless SpellsRavening Direflock (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 156 Direflock seems nice combined with enlightened to crank up the battleshock.
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Sounds like my 7th edition beastmen list! I think you could get away with something like this (assuming you have appropriate movement tray), since you can supplement all those bodies with summoned hard hitters when it makes sense.
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Is anyone saying Bulls are straight up better than Dragon Ogors? Dragon ogors are way faster (both base movement and D6" per turn) and are cheaper. Minotaurs hit harder, and have a bonus to charge which is relevant for ambushing. The unit that's arguably is straight up better than either bullgors or dragon ogors is bestigors.
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What do dragon ogres do better than bullgors as ambushers? They're much more resilient, but bullgors charge faster, have a smaller footprint, cause so much more damage, and heal when they kill.
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I think darkstalkers is the way to play minotaur heavy lists, since their musician is +1 to charge. With cogs, you can ambush your Minos turn 1 or 2 needing a 5+ to reach combat (decide after seeing what screens your opponent has and whether you successfully cast cogs). Keep a spare CP for reroll charge and thats a very reliable charge in without taking any hits. Desolating brayherd combines with it really well too - 2 hits per 6 to hit means I more hits that can roll 6's to wound, even with the weak horn attacks.
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Yes.
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You will definitely want some basic ungors for sacrifice, though raiders are solid too. Cygor vs Ghorgon comes down to flavour. You will probably use Ghorgons more. That said, it's worth getting at least 2 (if not 3!) start collecting boxes, so why not 1 of each? Personally, I'd go Cygor because there are some gorgeous 3rd party Ghorgons available *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough*
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Both good. Ungor raiders are good as long as you don't need another battleline. Ungors, spear or handweapon, are great. -------------- So flipping through the unit cards, I realized the issue with gors. Aside from bravery, they're badly outclassed by centigors for the same price (same wounds, same save, unless there's 20+ gors, centigors hit harder, centigors have a bonus on the charge, and centigors have drunken revelry if it makes sense).
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Gors with shields definitely have a place. I think they'd do well as the battleline in an army with monster hammers. AHW gors (ie, probably most of what you have) are a bit less impressive, but I'm sure you could make them work. You'll definitely want some ungors for sacrificing though.
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Allied Chaos sorceror lord casting daemonic power seems to be the only other way I've seen. Lots of situational boosts for brayherd stuff, not much for warherd.
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Allherd isn't even that much of a summoning boost. It can't combine with the shaggoth command traits for +d3 command points, so it's 1 per turn (plus maybe 1-2 from points and battalions you buy) if you want to burn your everything - that's still not enough to summon a monster every other turn let alone a monster and another unit every other turn. What Allherd really opens is the capacity to boost up to a big monster turn 2 if you roll well and burn through all your command points, or to more reliably summon medium sized stuff. That's pretty good (other armies generally take 3 turns to get to the monster, or take 2 turns to get to a medium sized unit), but the downside of allherd is in all the other abilities: Bestial might is pretty good, but minor and situational. Dominator requires the general to be in combat (either charging that turn or from a previous turn) to do anything. Blade of the desecrator is a situational rend boost in an army full of rend boosts. The other two greatfrays are much stronger overall in my opinion. edit: Doombull probably traded some a tiny bit offence for survivability. 4+ save with the command ability to lower rend of attacks by 1 is pretty neat. Too bad there's no old ramhorn helm anymore.
