SwampHeart
-
Posts
850 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
5
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Everything posted by SwampHeart
-
I think the key to using BoC units successfully in god aligned armies is taking units that fill usually unavailable gaps in a given army. Ungors work well for example in Tzeentch because its a cheap screen/battle line selection. Centigors work well in Nurgle because they can become ludicrously fast and punchy with blades. From a game play point of view you have to have a very specific vision in mind if you want to really leverage BoC units in non BoC armies but there are some interesting builds available.
-
No - if you take the BoC Nurgle Battalion it isn't an 'ally' for a Nurgle army - its just a regular part of their army. Subject to all benefits, restrictions etc. Basically you trade primal call, the herdstone, great frays, and BoC traits/relics/spells for Nurgle's wheel, summoning, and traits/relics/spells. The god aligned BoC battalions can be included in their respective god aligned armies as a natural part of that army, not as an ally. When you take a god aligned battalion you are basically given the option to choose between BoC allegiance traits or god specific allegiance traits. You still cannot ally in god specific units with BoC (correctly I might add, this is intentional and should work this way) - you can only ally in BoC units with god specific armies. However any unit you take in a god specific battalion can be a regular (i.e. not an ally selection) part of that god specific army.
-
You are correct - was mixing him up with a Bestigor champ.
-
You've got it - make sure to add 1 additional attack to your greatblades for your champion (who should definitely have one). As a general rule your casualty removal order is Dual Blades > Mutants > Shield > Greatblades as the Greatblades do the lion's share of the damage in the unit.
-
Ungors are (unfortunately) better in almost every conceivable scenario. You get 10 more bodies for 10 less points at max size - so if you want a large screen they're most cost efficient. If you want to cheaply fill battle line or have a cheap summoning battery then Ungors get you the same body count for 20 less points. Gors are fantastic models but are largely there to fill a battalion tax. You can equip the banner and musician with any equipment options. This means they're usually equipped with a Savage Great Blade since you're going to want to remove them last. Maximum Savage Great Blades (make sure to equip your champion, banner and musician with these so as to make casualty removal easier), maximum mutants, 1-2 shields, rest with paired savage blades. Its what the rules say and its how I play it. Is it a benefit? Absolutely. Do I feel bad about it? Not at all - a maximum sized Tzaangor unit is a quarter of a 2k list, you're paying for the benefit. As to Tzaangors as a whole - some people may give you slack about their use but they're an awesome unit with great models (IMO) that are fully a part of our army now. They fill several roles effectively for us and I think they're 100% worth playing with to figure out if they fit your style.
-
The big benefit is there's no negative to doing it this way (banners and musicians are really limited so its no big deal to add in another 2 banners and musicians to a unit). Depending on you play your army this may actually not be true. In most of my games with the 60 Ungor Raider set up they tend to have some durability just because I'm generally pressing 2 hammers into my opponent and then they've got to make a decision about what to deal with. Most of my scene is playing at 1950 (or lower in the case of most death opponents) so to get a Triumph I'd need to be in the 1920s most of the time. That said I can always leave the 40 points empty and just hope. If he fit into a battalion I'd take him in a heartbeat. My only concern is he'd push me to 4 drops and 3 puts me in a really comfortable spot where unless I'm playing 1 drop I know I've got the first turn. Getting into the 4-7 range it becomes a bit more risky. That said I do often summon in a pig to disrupt early on in the game. Just never managed to cast it - I always had something else I was more interested in. I'm not writing it off yet, just something to keep tinkering with.
-
They worked out pretty well - I think for maximizing offensive output you're probably right that units of 10 are more effective. In my list they double as an (expensive) screen because I'm usually ambushing my Raiders so I need to be able to string them out in a single drop for blocking movement and the like. That said a unit of 30 does feel great when you run them in to say 30 Ghouls or 40 Clan Rats and you get close to maximum output from them. The Pendulum was a dead 40 points for me but I don't really know what else to do with those 40 points. There are no changes to the list to free up 10 points for a command point (I'd gladly take one if I could) and I'm rarely in contention for Triumphs at 1960 either. So basically I have a 40 point window to play around with, there are no units that I can take so its mostly playing around with endless spells. That said I don't know that I really need the Tzaangor Shaman - the big thing though is he's very nice for getting good positioning for the Taurus plus he has the potion. I actually take him mostly for his casting/mobility and not for buffing my enlightened.
-
Forewarning, long post I attended a great 3 round, 1 day event this past weekend at my FLGS. I took my BoC (per usual, Goats4Lyfe) and took out 1st place. We had a pretty crowded field this weekend (18 participants) and I had a chance to play against both the new Skaven and the new FEC books. Thought I'd report on the event overall and how the Beasts fared. The tournament pack was no realms, realm artifacts allowed. Going to try and bullet point each round to make it easier to read. My list was Round 1 - Opponent Seraphon (Dracothian's Tail w/Firelance and Shadowstrike), Duality of Death Round 2 - Opponent FEC (Gristlegore, Savage Strike Zombie Dragon, 2 TGheists ((1 Ridden, 1 Not)), assorted characters and ghouls), Knife to the Heart Round 3 - Opponent Skaven (2 Verminlords, 100 Clan Rats, Artillery, etc) Better Part of Valor Overall it was a good event and I got to test the Beasts against some of the new meta developers. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this!
-
Looks fun but feels like you're probably over spending on Endless Spells (130 points!) especially given that you've got 2 1 spell per turn casters. I'd probably choose one to focus on (most likely Dirgehorn) and then use the remaining 70 points for something like an Ungor unit you can reliably sacrifice to generate more summoning points. Once you move up to 2k I'd recommend some more bodies - Ungor Raiders are great as are Ungors and Centigors. You've got lots of beefy bodies but they don't actually do a ton of damage so maybe focusing on picking up some more damage dealers would be ideal.
-
I can see this as a valid stance. Ultimately it isn't something I think is worth spending a ton of time on - just because I feel like any judge is going to tell you 'no you can't stop the monster from fighting at all with your spell'. You're also correct that they'll likely use the CA to fight after death either way, but I'll gladly trade my Enlightened for that thing not being on the table. Related to this whole conversation - I recently switched to running 60 raiders in a Desolating Brayherd and they've actually proven quite effective at drilling wounds off large monsters. They're normally generating 50~ hits (after re-rolls and including exploding 6s) which translates into 25~ wounds before saves. They may not kill off a Terrorgheist or Zombie Dragon but they make it really consider its life choices.
-
Edit - I misunderstood your point. Are you saying you don't think the bull works on the Gristlgore turn at all or just that it wouldn't prevent him from attacking? The bull 100% works in both players turns - it is not the player with priority who chooses the order for abilities to work, it is the most recent ability (this is stated explicitly in the FAQ). This is why the Taurus works on an IDK player in the high tide turn regardless of who has priority. Hightide and the Gristlegore ability will never be the most recent ability because they're both always on. An example of something that would meaningfully interact with the bull is the hysh command ability because it could be triggered after the bull. The Gristlegore trait however is never activated and thus cannot be the most recent ability. The Wildfire Taurus stops the Gristlegore command trait from functioning, period, end of story. The only "debate" (I don't actually think there is one because its silly RAW) is if the Gristlegore general can fight at all after being affected by the Taurus.
-
So upon some further reading - the current RAW would be that a Gristlegore character would not be able to fight at all (see attached wording). Once the bull hits him he must fight last and since the Gristlegore ability says he fights before any units are picked and can't again he's no longer able to fight. This is a super strict RAW interpretation that I'd never actually try to play to be clear.
-
I agree 100% - I actually just recently swapped up my list to include the spell because of the prevalence of Gristlegore builds I'm sure we'll see. And that paid dividends at my FLGS tournament this weekend - played FEC in round 3 against the Zombie Dragon variant - popped the bull on him and then charged it with 9 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc, he was able to use their fight before death ability but it was a huge moment in the game for sure.
-
Hoping to get some feedback on three lists I've been tinkering around with. List One (this is my current list, I'm familiar with, I've played lots of games with it) List Two (a variation) List Three (A change of pace, inspired by Joel's list at CanCon) Sorry for the density of the lists but thanks for checking them out.
-
This I'll grant is stupid. It makes no sense for Beasts of Chaos not to have access to FW's monsters (since in theory they're largely a big pool for everyone to choose from). But this is also the nature of dealing with FW - their rules team (afaik) isn't on the same page as GW's so stuff like this happens consistently. Chaos Dwarfs can ally in StD but StD can't ally in CD for example. There's a clear balance point here though. Our stuff doesn't really provide for super uber combos. There are some interesting builds using the god specific battalions but most BoC units, on their own, aren't terribly potent. A lot of the reason our book works well is its own internal mechanisms which don't really translate as allies. The counter point is that there are many chaos god specific units that if they could be used as allies would either simply overwrite the usage of certain units of ours or would unlock some decidedly negative play experience scenarios. Can you imagine being able to take hellstriders with 9 Tzaangor Enlightened who have access to savage dominion? There is a genuine balancing effort in play with the one way ally gate - it may not feel good but its there for a reason (trust me, I've looked at all my options if allies were on the table). We got a rock solid book on its own and hopefully once StD releases we'll have a slightly expanded ally pool to play with,
-
It really isn't - what it represents (and why those armies can have BoC allies but not the other way around) is that devoted followers of Nurgle would never allow themselves to be ruled over and lead by Beastmen (same for the others). Beastmen may join the great throngs of the most powerful warlords but Blightkings would never bend the knee to a Beastlord. Also you need to really further read the fluff and understand that Beastmen who choose to devote themselves to one god are looked down on and other beastmen will attempt to kill or drive out the believer -unless the believer is powerful enough to take rulership of the herd (and thus become one of the Battalions). By and large Beasts are above the worship of the gods, they are chaos for the sake of chaos. Hell they're known to tear down Khornate Fortresses and Tzeentchian Libraries for being too civilized. Our ally situation is actually very in line with the current fluff - beastmen who worship only one chaos god are aberrant and devout followers of the other gods would never willingly serve under the beastmen.
-
I know a few tournament lists have done well with the Balefire Taurus and one page back I've got a run down on the dirgehorn. Overall they're probably worth having available even if they're not an auto-include in every list.
-
I've used one in several games. It's a very good monster, just with a huge target marker. The MW output is solid (and gives us a nice ranged poke), and the combat efficacy is impressive. I think overall you do want to use the chimera more as 'sniper' as it'll get bogged down and torn down by big units. But it's great for really quickly removing your opponent's direwolves, khinerai, hellstriders, etc. The chimera is chunky points wise and sometimes won't earn its points back (but ultimately if it's helping you win that doesn't really mater). I've stopped using one because the way my list has evolved has pivoted away from too many larger monsters but I think the chimera is a solid option and worth testing.
-
I'm a huge fan of Starstrike - I think its a great scenario that offers several ways to win.
-
Got to try this out this past weekend. I played 5 games over the course of the weekend all with a list that involved Dirgehorn and 4 casters. I tried a few varieties of casters (some double TzShaman double GBS, a Shaggoth + GBSs, and 2 games with Chaos Sorcerer Lords allied in). We were playing as prep for an upcoming event that used Realmscape features and command abilities but not spells. My 5 opponents were: -IDK - Using the Ahkelian Battalion (turtle, shark, eels, king one) -SCE - Pretty standard Sequitors and Evocators build -2x LoN - One with Nagash, one with Arkhan, otherwise pretty standard builds -Mixed Order - A double frostheart phoenix adventure My game against IDK the plan worked well, I had the superior magic capacity and I was able to pressure his few unbinds which allowed me to get the Dirgehorn out and running. The debuff was very helpful with keeping the eels more under control and blunting some of their impact. Overall I'd rate this as an A+, best possible scenario for this set up. Against SCE I was again able to make the plan work. I had 2 issues this game that didn't crop up against the IDK player, first he had more casting attempts to give up in his turn to attempt to unbind the dirgehorn (not crippling but gave him more options), and his ability to deepstrike in meant I had to better plan for the location of the dirgehorn (I placed it on an objective that I had Dragon Ogres set to score on). Still a really good performance, not quite as stellar as the IDK but another A. Both games against LoN the plan was a pretty miserable one. The capacity for Nagash or Arkhan to unbind is just so strong that I wasn't even able to get the dirgehorn on the table until late game and then its radius was too small to really impact the game. This was a worst case for the spell as it felt like I was playing 60 pts down both game. On the bright side I did still manage to win both of these games so I can't rate it an overall failure - it did at least factor in to my opponents' thought processes. Against Mixed Order I thought it was against fantastic. My opponent had plenty of good casters (to power up the Phoenixes) but the MW output was obviously a concern for him from Viletide (I used to antagonize his casters rather than the phoenix). Granted the turn it went down it did benefit the nearby Phoenix but I was able to use it to reduce the effectiveness of his Arknaut Crew which was very helpful in the early stages of the game. This was a good B performance for the Dirgehorn set up. The only thing that kept it from being an A is the Dirgehorn doesn't do much to help you against the Phoenix tieing down units. I think as a whole I'd rate the concept behind your idea as a from B. It can work well and we've got access to cheap enough casters with cheap to cast spells to create some spell pressure. I'm not sure that its a list idea I'm going to stay committed to but I think if its something you wanted to give a go it has the legs to play with. As far as negatives - obviously if you meet one of the more dominant casting forces (Nagash, Arkhan, Alarielle, etc) you basically don't get to play with your toy. Also the overall impact can be minor depending on your opponent's army composition. But its definitely worth a shot overall and I think for some players will be a good fit.
-
I think he was mostly poking fun. I fully intend to continue to play with my Tzaangors, I'm not going to stop using a unit because of GW's bad copy and paste.
-
I run a unit of 6 - 3 with Crushers and 3 with Glaives.
-
Haven't thought about it that way before. I've got a round of practice games this weekend so I'll write up a list with it in there and give it a few goes, and report back Monday. I'm thinking a major requirement of the list are 3 casters - need to be able to threaten with viletide for sure to keep the dispells honest. Probably going to look at a Tzaangor, GBS, and Shaggoth set up to start with.
-
You can find the full rundown of the lists in the event section but Dan's list was: Tzaangor Shaman - General (Shadowpelt), Ignax's Scales, Tendrils of Atrophy Great Bray Shaman - Savage Dominion Great Bray Shaman - Viletide 40 Ungors - Mauls and Shields 10 Ungors - Mauls and Shields 30 Tzaangors 9 Enlightened on Disc 9 Enlightened on Disc Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh
-
To add to the BoC Tally - Dan Bradshaw took UK Masters with a very Tzeentch list.
