SwampHeart

Not really no - interactive is the magic phase, you roll dice, I roll dice. There is a push and pull on both players part - a mechanic with counter play simply means I have the opportunity to deal with how it impacts me. SCE Deepstrike has counter play - screening, movement, etc. The Nurgle ability has counter play because the targets have to be within 12" of one another so you can manage it. The Nurgle ability to move the dial with a spell is interactive because both players are involved in its usage. They mean two distinct things - no one is asking for Allegiance abilities to be interactive, I don't want to be able to turn off high tide. I just want the option to play well and mitigate it. And if I don't have that option (like with the Bad Moon) then ability should have a smaller impact to compensate (like the Bad Moon).

Counter play doesn't mean the rule has to be interactive. It means that you can counter it via your own play.

I agree - a perfectly reasonable army wide special ability.

Every unit on the table, one unit per quarter, any other clarification?

There's a bit of irony there right? Talking about people making sweeping statements about how the game will be ruined whilst making your own sweeping statement (where both are inaccurate). I don't think Sleboda has ever said it'll ruin the game, only that an army wide ability of random starfall probably isn't great game design. The various Nurgle abilities are all fine because they have ranges and specific triggers. The concern is if this Gloomspite ability doesn't have those same limitations. Will that be the case? We don't know and its fair to say 'Hey we don't know how this works so you can't say its bad game design' but I don't think the appropriate response is to bring up an oranges to apples comparison of Nurgle's MW abilities.

The issue is we don't know how its going work - if it is D3 to D3 then I don't think many people will have concern. But also the Nurgle ability does have a range limitation (all targets must be within 12" of one another) so there is a counter play element to its efficacy. Additionally for it to be available every turn you'd need the command trait (one you can't stop) and then it requires a spell to be cast - which means again there is counter play. I think the thing some people are worried about it (and its very hard to tell because again we have so little information) is that there will be no counter play at all. I'll wait until we see how it works because its all speculative until that point. I'm mostly here because I think a few people are being demonized for a view point that I can understand even if I don't share it.

I don't think its unfair to voice concern - maybe it is premature but what is a forum if not a place to discuss your hobby.

I don't presume to speak for Sleboda but I think he was more using that as an example of his potential concern. I'm reserving my judgement until we see the rule but I can say that if its just a purely random set of happenstance mortal wounds I don't think it'll contribute to positive game play experiences. But again - none of us know - it may be far more tame or there may be some counter play in it.

We don't know the rules so its impossible to say how similar or dissimilar this rule is from those. Most of those that you mentioned have some form of counter play (which this may also have, we don't know yet).

Yeah, I'm super pumped to lose my already fragile BoC characters to a mechanic I can't play around *eyeroll*. I'm going to hold back on declaring that the sky is falling because as others have said - we haven't seen the total mechanic. But I can say with certainty that no it doesn't only help the game.

Yes - you may stack it on a single unit as many times as you have CP to do so.

Its hard to describe in text but effectively the goal is to charge with Enlightened and Ungors and then use the Ungor pile-in to pin and block the unit you've charged where their only legal target (for most of the unit at least) is Ungors. This where clip charging becomes a big deal as well - you basically charge the Enlightened at a corner and then use your Ungor pile-in to prevent your opponent from piling towards the enlightened.

Yes - neither are exclusive to one another. You can include almost every unit in the army book with minimal requirements which allows you to easily achieve a one drop army. They reference the same thing generally speaking - the idea is to take full advantage of Tzaangor Enlightened (who get full re-rolls if an enemy has already attacked) so what you do (and there are several ways to do it) is get a screening unit (usually ungors) in front of Enlightened who are then killed off. After the Ungors are killed off you can pile in your Enlightened (who are right behind the Ungors) so that they get to attack with their full re-rolls but weren't made vulnerable to attacks at the same time. If you'd like to see it in action I'd suggest checking out Doom and Darkness's YouTube videos as its something he uses often. I do run Phantasmagoria of Fate because I like having a one drop army. Here are two of the lists I've used: List One - Gavespawn -Beastlord - Mutating Gnarlblade -Great Bray Shaman - General (Unravelling Aura), The Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage -Tzaangor Shaman - Tendrils of Atrophy -Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (Ally) -10x Bestigors -10x Bestigors -40x Ungors -10x Ungors -10x Ungor Raiders -10x Ungor Raiders -5x Centigors -6x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc Phantasmagoria of Fate Prismatic Palisade The general focus of this list is using board control paired with summoning to create a lot of pressure on my opponent. You've got 3 hammers that are mostly there to help you slow down other hammer units but depending on the match up you can bully with them as well (especially with Wild Rampage). Positioning and good charges are a major part of being successful with this list - you want to make sure you've got really only one hammer in at a time or else you run the risk of losing a fragile unit before it gets to swing. Another major to key to success is good summoning - this list likes to spend points early, dogs and chariots are a favorite of mine. The idea is just to summon chaff to pressure objectives and either force your opponent to keep units on objectives or abandon them and let you score. List Two - Dragon Ogre Shaggoth -Dragon Ogre Shaggoth - General (Ancient Beyond Knowing), Gryph Feather Charm, Hailstorm -Great Bray Shaman - The Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage -Tzaangor Shaman - Tendrils of Atrophy -6x Dragon Ogres - 3x Crushers, 3x Cleavers -6x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc -6x Tzaangor Skyfires -10x Ungors -10x Ungors -10x Ungors -10x Ungor Raiders -10x Ungor Raiders Phantasmagoria of Fate This list is my more elite list - it uses the Dragon Ogres as a defensive pivot (they're fairly durable with decent punch near the Shaggoth) while the main damage dealers are the 2 Tzaangor units. This list takes more advantage of the above mentioned 'screen charge' but also uses a similar summoning strategy as the first list. The primary idea with this list is to pick your fights and leverage your hammers to help you win specific sections of the board (again with the focus on winning the scoring game). I think the key to using this list well is understanding where you can successfully apply pressure, especially with the Skyfires (who need to be charging pretty often to really be worth their points). I certainly don't think these are the only viable lists but these are 2 I've had success and fun with it so hopefully it'll be a spring board for some ideas.

This is irrelevant because at current we cannot take Skin Wolves in BoC. You can in open or narrative play for certain but in matched play it is illegal, especially at tournaments. So even looking at their damage output from the frame of reference of BoC is meaningless. They work in mixed Chaos and are a good unit but they aren't a legal selection for BoC so it doesn't matter if they out damage everything the book - you can't use them in matched play. As to the debate of Enlightened vs. Bullgors - Enlightened are faster (and can take advantage of the movement buff of a shaman to be a base 19"), have a better range, and with a little practice the screen charge is basically fool proof. Bullgors are an OK unit that's fun to use - they're not anywhere near as potent as Enlightened from either a damage or flexibility point of view.

The FAQ was for clarity and simplicity - its there so that the BoK artifact section reads like more modern tomes where they simply say 'If you army has any <keyword> hero you may select blah blah blah'. It wasn't a change to who can take artifacts, just a change to keep the wording consistent.

That's not quite what the FAQ says - what it changed is each specific table isn't limited to a type of Khorne hero but each one of the tables still specifically tells you who can or cannot equip it. Basically it means you don't need a mortal khorne hero for murderous artifacts or a demon khorne hero for demonic weapons. However you still have to be a Khorne Mortal Hero to take a murderous artifact. A beastlord or doombull does not qualify.

If he's playing BoK then he can't take the Gnarlblade anyway because that's a Great Fray specific item.

We do not - per the FAQ those characters don't have artifacts.

We haven't really seen them yet - but that tends to be the case with AoS. The meta is slow to develop as people work through painting (and sometimes the pain of just acquiring the models), and testing the list. They have been to a few events but with poor showings - that said I think most of that comes down to poor lists.

Wholly within 12" - assuming you're running a single unit of Dragon Ogres its not too hard to keep them in range of the Shaggoth. If you were running multiple units it would be tough though. Even with a Shaggoth I only run one unit (of 6 personally).

Proxied it a few times while play testing various builds - its been fairly effective overall. My biggest issue is actually moving them around the table (even with movement trays once you get to combat it just takes time to pile in properly and the like). And while that's not a game issue it is a concern when you're practicing/playing in events with timed rounds. The battleshock wasn't a major issue and I was able to bring close to as much punch as I wanted (never can quite get enough), but ultimately it was taking too much time and my ability to play games out to a real conclusion was being impacted. I have tinkered around with 80 Ungors which still gets you a lot of bodies on the table but doesn't impact your play time as much. And at only 400 points they're not a bad buy at all to bubble wrap objectives or enlightened.

Taking Dragon Ogres without a Shaggoth is an inefficient choice. Dragon Ogres aren't a particularly effective choice but when you have a Shaggoth (General) they can then fill a battleline slot and become much more efficient with access to re-rolls and other buffs depending on your load out. 6 with a Shaggoth makes a good defensive pivot but I'd never field them without a Shaggoth because there are just better ways to spend the points otherwise.

Alas we cannot take him - he isn't StD which is our only ally choice. I truly wish we had a better ally selection because there is some grade A filth available if we did.

Same way I deal with most other lists - die in droves but score first. They hurt a little more because we have a lot of armor negation that they ignore, but that doesn't really matter when I knew I was going to lose three quarters of my army from jump street. I basically take the first turn and move all out towards the objectives (and to establish a wall in the middle of the table) and then just grind with them. They win the fights eventually, but as long as I had the scoring lead through turn 3 it rarely matters. Plus I can summon as needed to force them to pay attention to objectives they have left open - the added pressure helps against most NH armies that don't like to baby sit objectives.

I think @Magnus The Blue has it right - its a cheap battalion that's one drop capable (one of the reasons I love the Tzeentch one so much). As far as useful units specifically - centigors are just ace in general, they're fast, cheap and good at tieing up units/winning fights against other cheap drops. With ambush (which I have a generally negative opinion of) you need something that's threatening or else you're opponent isn't going to bother altering his deployment. Ambushing with Bestigors is probably your best choice, they're still fairly cheap with a smallish footprint but they hit hard. Maybe (depending on your Greatfray) a Beastlord as well, ambushing a Gnarlblade Beastlord is never a bad option. You might even consider cogs in the list or shackles one - the ability to control movement, and open avenues for you to leverage the battalion ability should help get more mileage. I've been tinkering with some of the same ideas for all the same reasons - Wrath and Rapture has me excited for the 'Rapture' part!