SwampHeart
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Forewarning, long post I attended a great 3 round, 1 day event this past weekend at my FLGS. I took my BoC (per usual, Goats4Lyfe) and took out 1st place. We had a pretty crowded field this weekend (18 participants) and I had a chance to play against both the new Skaven and the new FEC books. Thought I'd report on the event overall and how the Beasts fared. The tournament pack was no realms, realm artifacts allowed. Going to try and bullet point each round to make it easier to read. My list was Round 1 - Opponent Seraphon (Dracothian's Tail w/Firelance and Shadowstrike), Duality of Death Round 2 - Opponent FEC (Gristlegore, Savage Strike Zombie Dragon, 2 TGheists ((1 Ridden, 1 Not)), assorted characters and ghouls), Knife to the Heart Round 3 - Opponent Skaven (2 Verminlords, 100 Clan Rats, Artillery, etc) Better Part of Valor Overall it was a good event and I got to test the Beasts against some of the new meta developers. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this!
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Looks fun but feels like you're probably over spending on Endless Spells (130 points!) especially given that you've got 2 1 spell per turn casters. I'd probably choose one to focus on (most likely Dirgehorn) and then use the remaining 70 points for something like an Ungor unit you can reliably sacrifice to generate more summoning points. Once you move up to 2k I'd recommend some more bodies - Ungor Raiders are great as are Ungors and Centigors. You've got lots of beefy bodies but they don't actually do a ton of damage so maybe focusing on picking up some more damage dealers would be ideal.
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I can see this as a valid stance. Ultimately it isn't something I think is worth spending a ton of time on - just because I feel like any judge is going to tell you 'no you can't stop the monster from fighting at all with your spell'. You're also correct that they'll likely use the CA to fight after death either way, but I'll gladly trade my Enlightened for that thing not being on the table. Related to this whole conversation - I recently switched to running 60 raiders in a Desolating Brayherd and they've actually proven quite effective at drilling wounds off large monsters. They're normally generating 50~ hits (after re-rolls and including exploding 6s) which translates into 25~ wounds before saves. They may not kill off a Terrorgheist or Zombie Dragon but they make it really consider its life choices.
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Edit - I misunderstood your point. Are you saying you don't think the bull works on the Gristlgore turn at all or just that it wouldn't prevent him from attacking? The bull 100% works in both players turns - it is not the player with priority who chooses the order for abilities to work, it is the most recent ability (this is stated explicitly in the FAQ). This is why the Taurus works on an IDK player in the high tide turn regardless of who has priority. Hightide and the Gristlegore ability will never be the most recent ability because they're both always on. An example of something that would meaningfully interact with the bull is the hysh command ability because it could be triggered after the bull. The Gristlegore trait however is never activated and thus cannot be the most recent ability. The Wildfire Taurus stops the Gristlegore command trait from functioning, period, end of story. The only "debate" (I don't actually think there is one because its silly RAW) is if the Gristlegore general can fight at all after being affected by the Taurus.
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So upon some further reading - the current RAW would be that a Gristlegore character would not be able to fight at all (see attached wording). Once the bull hits him he must fight last and since the Gristlegore ability says he fights before any units are picked and can't again he's no longer able to fight. This is a super strict RAW interpretation that I'd never actually try to play to be clear.
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I agree 100% - I actually just recently swapped up my list to include the spell because of the prevalence of Gristlegore builds I'm sure we'll see. And that paid dividends at my FLGS tournament this weekend - played FEC in round 3 against the Zombie Dragon variant - popped the bull on him and then charged it with 9 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc, he was able to use their fight before death ability but it was a huge moment in the game for sure.
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Hoping to get some feedback on three lists I've been tinkering around with. List One (this is my current list, I'm familiar with, I've played lots of games with it) List Two (a variation) List Three (A change of pace, inspired by Joel's list at CanCon) Sorry for the density of the lists but thanks for checking them out.
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This I'll grant is stupid. It makes no sense for Beasts of Chaos not to have access to FW's monsters (since in theory they're largely a big pool for everyone to choose from). But this is also the nature of dealing with FW - their rules team (afaik) isn't on the same page as GW's so stuff like this happens consistently. Chaos Dwarfs can ally in StD but StD can't ally in CD for example. There's a clear balance point here though. Our stuff doesn't really provide for super uber combos. There are some interesting builds using the god specific battalions but most BoC units, on their own, aren't terribly potent. A lot of the reason our book works well is its own internal mechanisms which don't really translate as allies. The counter point is that there are many chaos god specific units that if they could be used as allies would either simply overwrite the usage of certain units of ours or would unlock some decidedly negative play experience scenarios. Can you imagine being able to take hellstriders with 9 Tzaangor Enlightened who have access to savage dominion? There is a genuine balancing effort in play with the one way ally gate - it may not feel good but its there for a reason (trust me, I've looked at all my options if allies were on the table). We got a rock solid book on its own and hopefully once StD releases we'll have a slightly expanded ally pool to play with,
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It really isn't - what it represents (and why those armies can have BoC allies but not the other way around) is that devoted followers of Nurgle would never allow themselves to be ruled over and lead by Beastmen (same for the others). Beastmen may join the great throngs of the most powerful warlords but Blightkings would never bend the knee to a Beastlord. Also you need to really further read the fluff and understand that Beastmen who choose to devote themselves to one god are looked down on and other beastmen will attempt to kill or drive out the believer -unless the believer is powerful enough to take rulership of the herd (and thus become one of the Battalions). By and large Beasts are above the worship of the gods, they are chaos for the sake of chaos. Hell they're known to tear down Khornate Fortresses and Tzeentchian Libraries for being too civilized. Our ally situation is actually very in line with the current fluff - beastmen who worship only one chaos god are aberrant and devout followers of the other gods would never willingly serve under the beastmen.
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I know a few tournament lists have done well with the Balefire Taurus and one page back I've got a run down on the dirgehorn. Overall they're probably worth having available even if they're not an auto-include in every list.
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I've used one in several games. It's a very good monster, just with a huge target marker. The MW output is solid (and gives us a nice ranged poke), and the combat efficacy is impressive. I think overall you do want to use the chimera more as 'sniper' as it'll get bogged down and torn down by big units. But it's great for really quickly removing your opponent's direwolves, khinerai, hellstriders, etc. The chimera is chunky points wise and sometimes won't earn its points back (but ultimately if it's helping you win that doesn't really mater). I've stopped using one because the way my list has evolved has pivoted away from too many larger monsters but I think the chimera is a solid option and worth testing.
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I'm a huge fan of Starstrike - I think its a great scenario that offers several ways to win.
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Got to try this out this past weekend. I played 5 games over the course of the weekend all with a list that involved Dirgehorn and 4 casters. I tried a few varieties of casters (some double TzShaman double GBS, a Shaggoth + GBSs, and 2 games with Chaos Sorcerer Lords allied in). We were playing as prep for an upcoming event that used Realmscape features and command abilities but not spells. My 5 opponents were: -IDK - Using the Ahkelian Battalion (turtle, shark, eels, king one) -SCE - Pretty standard Sequitors and Evocators build -2x LoN - One with Nagash, one with Arkhan, otherwise pretty standard builds -Mixed Order - A double frostheart phoenix adventure My game against IDK the plan worked well, I had the superior magic capacity and I was able to pressure his few unbinds which allowed me to get the Dirgehorn out and running. The debuff was very helpful with keeping the eels more under control and blunting some of their impact. Overall I'd rate this as an A+, best possible scenario for this set up. Against SCE I was again able to make the plan work. I had 2 issues this game that didn't crop up against the IDK player, first he had more casting attempts to give up in his turn to attempt to unbind the dirgehorn (not crippling but gave him more options), and his ability to deepstrike in meant I had to better plan for the location of the dirgehorn (I placed it on an objective that I had Dragon Ogres set to score on). Still a really good performance, not quite as stellar as the IDK but another A. Both games against LoN the plan was a pretty miserable one. The capacity for Nagash or Arkhan to unbind is just so strong that I wasn't even able to get the dirgehorn on the table until late game and then its radius was too small to really impact the game. This was a worst case for the spell as it felt like I was playing 60 pts down both game. On the bright side I did still manage to win both of these games so I can't rate it an overall failure - it did at least factor in to my opponents' thought processes. Against Mixed Order I thought it was against fantastic. My opponent had plenty of good casters (to power up the Phoenixes) but the MW output was obviously a concern for him from Viletide (I used to antagonize his casters rather than the phoenix). Granted the turn it went down it did benefit the nearby Phoenix but I was able to use it to reduce the effectiveness of his Arknaut Crew which was very helpful in the early stages of the game. This was a good B performance for the Dirgehorn set up. The only thing that kept it from being an A is the Dirgehorn doesn't do much to help you against the Phoenix tieing down units. I think as a whole I'd rate the concept behind your idea as a from B. It can work well and we've got access to cheap enough casters with cheap to cast spells to create some spell pressure. I'm not sure that its a list idea I'm going to stay committed to but I think if its something you wanted to give a go it has the legs to play with. As far as negatives - obviously if you meet one of the more dominant casting forces (Nagash, Arkhan, Alarielle, etc) you basically don't get to play with your toy. Also the overall impact can be minor depending on your opponent's army composition. But its definitely worth a shot overall and I think for some players will be a good fit.
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I think he was mostly poking fun. I fully intend to continue to play with my Tzaangors, I'm not going to stop using a unit because of GW's bad copy and paste.
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I run a unit of 6 - 3 with Crushers and 3 with Glaives.
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Haven't thought about it that way before. I've got a round of practice games this weekend so I'll write up a list with it in there and give it a few goes, and report back Monday. I'm thinking a major requirement of the list are 3 casters - need to be able to threaten with viletide for sure to keep the dispells honest. Probably going to look at a Tzaangor, GBS, and Shaggoth set up to start with.
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You can find the full rundown of the lists in the event section but Dan's list was: Tzaangor Shaman - General (Shadowpelt), Ignax's Scales, Tendrils of Atrophy Great Bray Shaman - Savage Dominion Great Bray Shaman - Viletide 40 Ungors - Mauls and Shields 10 Ungors - Mauls and Shields 30 Tzaangors 9 Enlightened on Disc 9 Enlightened on Disc Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh
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To add to the BoC Tally - Dan Bradshaw took UK Masters with a very Tzeentch list.
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The players roll off to see who deploys first - the winner may choose to deploy the first or second unit. The player who finishes deploying first gets the choice of going first or second.
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But if you have a one drop army and your opponent doesn't have a 2 or less drop army then that roll off is irrelevant - you get the first turn choice.
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The player who deploys first chooses to go first or second.
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Overall I like it a lot - I'm curious as to how you'll find 2 units of Dragon Ogres, I've used one as a defensive pivot in more than a few builds. I would suggest maybe dropping 2 centigors for 2 ungor raider units. Having that pre game move really helps you exert your screen more effectively which I think is pivotal.
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I haven't tinkered around with any conversions for them yet. Unfortunately the old standard of the Boar Chariot is no longer available - maybe working with the Chaos Chariot would be a good start (its a bit overwrought for Beasts but is probably the best option). Total Commitment is a scenario from the GHB who's primary feature is forcing all models to start on the table. Any units placed in reserves are considered dead so basically you don't get to put any of your units in Ambush in that scenario.
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I actually don't think its a competitively viable build. So many tournaments right now are including Total Commitment that you're almost guaranteed to play it (especially in a 5 round event), and as such you're basically wasting an artifact for one of your five rounds. Regarding specifically the Nurgle Battalion - have you considered chariots at all - I think they might be good missiles in the Battalion. They hit reasonably hard but aren't super durable so you should get the nice MW pop on them reliably.
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Sorry for the long delay in response (you know the weekend and all). -I think having the eye/aetherquartz brooch is more valuable than a 2nd artifact on a beastlord. My general experience has been that a BL with an artifact that improves his weapon damage is a very points efficient blender where anytime I run one barebones his damage output is just too low. Maybe you could run a Doombull instead of a Beastlord for your 2nd combat hero paying for it with the points you save in spawn? He's more effective on his own and wouldn't require an artifact investment. -Regarding Centigors - you can pretty easily convert them out of Gors and marauder horsemen or even use 3rd party. But I totally understand models being a concern, and I agree the current range Centigors aren't good looking models (plus they suffer badly from scale creep). -My general opinion on Bestigors is they are a missile. Smaller units are more easily maneuvered into tighter spots and represent a wider target priority for your opponent. If I'm facing an army with 4 units of 10 versus 1 20 and 2 10s its harder for me to plan out my shots to deal exactly with each given unit. This is also a major element of 'dealer's choice' so I'd play around with both and find your comfort level. -I know I've gone on record in the thread as not being a lover of ambush but have you thought about going for the Ungor Raider ambush and giving a bray shaman the +1 to hit horn? I think its a bit of a niche build but could be fun and probably worth experimenting with if you run the big Raider unit.
