PlasticCraic

Yeah, Drakkfoot is strong against so many on-meta armies right now. Fyreslayers, Verminlords, Death, DOK, Phoenix Guard...the list goes on. What are you thinking for the CT in Icebonez @broche? Great Hunter?

Yeah Drakkfoot is still definitely viable. Ignoring Aftersaves was always more important than ignoring Ethereal, and even with the change to Morathi, DOK is a good matchup. It's an irritation more than a problem.

So if you can double tap with 20 in a Kunnin Rukk, you probably one-shot him. It's still not a bad situation to be in. Very easy to get 20 (or even 30) in range with a 5" / 8" pre-game move, 5" / 10" Kunnin Rukk move, 5" / 10" normal move. Mobility shot way up with the pre-game move and Breath applying in all phases. Kunnin Rukk would still be my go-to against a Maw Krusha heavy meta.

Remember the Boarboys get + to hit and wound on the charge. Their output is identical to Maniaks if they charged, And like you said, they have a better save. Maniaks are better offensively if you stack the buffs (more dice = more exploding hits) but Boarboys have their place at 10 points cheaper. Especially if you are stacking saves on them and using them as a mobile tarpit.

That'll happen when he is flying 30" Good stuff. You've also got my current preferred Maw Krusha loadout... great minds hey?

I think the issue with Brutes is that their attack profile is waaaay too similar to Ardboyz. They do slightly more damage, but they are worse in every other way (model count, base size, board control, mobility, bravery). Ardboyz are almost as good at fighting, and better at everything else, so I keep gravitating back to them. You can certainly use Brutes, and they're pretty efficient for their points. But I think you're probably using them because you like them, moreso than because they're a particularly effective part of an army build.

I have an article on this subject on my blog which might be relevant, written with help from a top competitive Slaanesh player: http://plasticcraic.blog/2019/09/01/how-to-beat-slaanesh-with-joel-mcgrath/ There's also a Gloomspite-specific diagram about efficiently containing a KOS in the first article of the 2-part series: https://plasticcraic.blog/2019/08/28/are-slaanesh-op/

@broche I would argue that it's still wholly within. It's a single clause, "wholly"....on or within Otherwise, you would need a comma to separate the clauses: "Wholly on, or within" I'm not a lawyer, but that would be my interpretation! (I think your opponent is being a bit cheeky tbh...)

For me the issue with Gruntas is that I'd want 6 + a Warchanter, and that's 430 points now. You can fit 10 Brutes + Warchanter at 390, but they're crazy slow on their own...I'd probably rather take 8 Big Stabbas at 400, and be able to Breath of Gork and run + charge. So personally, I think they're better combined in a Big Waaagh, where you can fit enough units + support to make them work a bit more smoothly?

That's the one! Thank you.

Yeah I've searched in vain for that 3rd point, again I'm sure I've seen it somewhere but I can't pin it down. Would this offer a relevant precedent? Q: Call to War allows a Gristlegore Hero to pile in and then attack as a reaction to being slain. Can I use Feeding Frenzy to fight again after using Call to War? A: Yes. Call to War happens before the slain model is removed play, temporarily halting the normal game sequence at that point. The Feeding Frenzy command ability can be used after Call to War to allow the model to fight for a second time. The normal game sequence is then returned to, and the slain model is removed from play

Agreed. That rend -2 is still a great nutcracker against a lot of non-Monster units, e.g. Dracoth cav which seem to be making a bit of a resurgence. It's not hard to get them doing 7 or 8 (!) attacks each: 3 base +1 for Teef Rukk +1 from Savage Big Boss CA +1 from MWN Spell +1 / +2 from the Waaagh CA And that's off the top of my head, there may be more? Hitting on 2s, flying 15" with Breath of Gork (including pre-game move), running and charging at +1 to both from Brutal Beast Spirits Moving like lightening and hitting like a freight train, attacking 3" over the top of screens, then splashing back mortals on the way down. If you invest that deep it obviously restricts what you can do with your Arrow Boys, but these guys will be a lot of fun. Yes @Incredebilis I think they are worth taking! Edit: just realised that in my excitement, I'm mashing together extra attacks with exploding 6s! You get the idea though, these things can be a real murderball.

I just listed out a Kunnin Rukk with 3x 20 Arrow Boys for that reason? And @svnvaldez specified that his 30x block would be separate to the Rukk ("Krukk in the backfield for later"). I don't think anyone in this thread is forgetting that - however you are right, it is definitely something to consider. There are upsides and downsides to both approaches (20s in the Rukk, or 30s outside of it), or like Sam you could take a hybrid approach.

Typo there? Certainly "not" a bad strategy?

My own starting point is: Savage Big Boss 100 Boar Wizard 120 Boar Wizard 120 20 Arrow Boys 280 20 Arrow Boys 280 20 Arrow Boys 280 Kunnin Rukk 140 3 drops, 138 wounds, 1200 points and all your Battleline sorted 800 points for some fun choppy stuff / extra magic / a big hard to shift unit I'm not saying that 3x 20 will be the final, optimised version - but it's a solid start to any list I think.

One thing I'm quite excited by is the potential for the following: - Pre-game move your Arrow Boys 5" / 8" with Tireless Trackers - Buff them up with BBS etc and give them Hand of Gork - Hero Phase shoot with Kunnin Rukk - Move them 10" and fly - Shooting phase shoot with generic CA rerolls Have your cake and eat it, by double-moving and double-shooting turn 1! Nothing is safe. Shoot off the chaff screen first to remove Lookout Sir, then shoot off the support Heroes they were protecting. The more I think about it, Tireless Trackers accompanies Kunnin Rukk, it doesn't replace it. Can't. Wait.

Bearing in mind that they already have rend -1 against Monsters, and you could use the generic CA to reroll 1s to hit, you must be getting close to one-shotting a Stardrake? I love the free pre-game move too, I used the move part of the Kunnin Rukk more consistently than the double tap in practice. Such a good unit at 360 points.

OOOOOOH YEAAHHH! You just made my day!

Isn't the max unit size 20 now?

@svnvaldez yeah I like that. I go back and forward between wanting to take the Kunnin Rukk, and thinking I don't need it because of the free Allegiance move. So it kinda comes down to 30-block units vs reduced drops...it might come down to whether I can get the rest of my list down for the drops to matter. Overall I like the new Kunnin Rukk, it's a tool within your army rather than the whole army. Pretty cool I think. I mentioned this in the Bonesplitterz thread too, but I think I saw that the max unit size on Big Stabbas is now 4? Which is a shame if so. Really cool to see 30x Savage Orruks making their way into lists now! Drakkfoot is my go-to currently too, they all have merit though.

I think the issue here might be that the unit size is capped at 4 now? Could be wrong.

Yeah I think that's fair. Drakkfoot still seems the standout to me, but they're all relevant and useful. You got any early builds in mind?

Good question. Seems to me like he is trying to suck all the joy out of the book before it's even landed. Attention-seeker and best ignored imo.

1) Take the Warchanters off at range. Jezzails, Warp Lightening Cannons, Arrow Boys, KO, Tzeentch, teleporting COS gunlines, Shootcast, Endless Spells lists in general will all get rid of a couple of 6-wound models quick smart. 2) Screening. If you have to engage with my 10-wound chaff, I have denied you 30 of your 40 damage output. 3) Always Strikes First / Always Fights Last. They can do 1,000,000 damage per swing, but if they never get to roll a dice, you have denied them all of it. 4) Make their output worthless by summoning back whatever they kill. Especially effective for a summoning army with 25mm bases, including any Slaanesh army played competently, but also LOG for example. 5) Outdrop them and kill the combat units before they are buffed up, so they have nothing worthwhile to buff. IJ are a low body-count army after the points hikes. 6) Take a hyper-durable army, especially one with after-saves. They will take the punch and hit back, IJ tend to lose a grind. Deny the damage output with saves after saves. Hope that helps.

@JackStreicher How did that even happen when Locus is a thing, and Ironjawz bleed Depravity? The only way I can think of is that Slaanesh went first and flung all their Battleline out to die without any support, thereby leaving their Heroes unscreened to be picked off afterwards. i.e. deliberately or accidentally played right into the IJ hands, and making them look good.