Planar

Mini report on a local shop tournament I went this weekend with below a double cabbage list. Although small it was a strong event with very experienced players and super-honed lists (in retrospect my list was a bit out of place but I wanted to play 2 cabages for a long time… ). I usually play super aggressive IJ lists with multiple mighty destroyers and S&B. This time a decided to try an ”out of character” "slow to erupt" Big Waagh list. First game against a heavy magic 220 wounds bonespiltters’ list. Scenario was gift from the heavens. I deployed in banker formation and stayed behind until start of my second round where I hit the 20 Waagh points. Opponent hold also back initially. It became early evident that I could not compete in magic as his casters were all casting dispelling with multiple bonuses. Fortunately his magic damage output was small and he relied mostly on giving bonuses to his units. On my second round I unleased the cabbages and they obliterated anything on their path. It was glorious. Mean-Un’ed Godrack finished 10 pigs in a single round of combat and the other cabbage killed 22 of a 30 man savage orcs with spears. Both received 1 wound in return which promptly healed with SfV. Then at the end of 3th round I did a mistake letting gap in my screens guarding my objective. Opponent noticed and cleverly super buffed a 10 pig unit, flyed across the board with breath of Gorkamorga and then pulled a 15 inches charge (he needed to roll at least 11 to go past the screens and he rolled 12). I had to win the next initiative to avoid him playing first and stealing the objective. Lost the roll off and we called it since I had no means of catching up on round 5. Major loss. Overall a very fun and positive game against a very competent and cunning opponent. Second game was places of arcane power against fyreslayers. The whole game I felt like a 5 years old skinny boy trying to dent a heavy weight boxing champion. Despite that by the end of the 4rd round I could still “steal the game” if I won the critical priority roll. I lost the priority and lost the game. Dices didn’t help and it was a major loss hands down. Not much to say. I feel fyresayers are a hard counter for us and it always feel an uphill battle against them. Rolling 7 ones on 14 x 2+ saves does not help either 😊. Major Loss and not a very enjoyable game. Third game was knife to the heart against the new Slaves to Darkness. Never played against them and did not know what to expect. I deployed in a tank position again and waited to hit 20 waagh points in around 2. Then unleased the cabbages and promptly started deleting chaos knights (a unit of 10 wend down in one go). It looked good 😊 At this point I felt pray to my inexperience. Remembering marauders as "something weak"I left Gordrakk exposed. Opponent proceeded teleporting 40 marauders 9 inches away from him and then charging him with an almost guaranteed charge (had no clue new marauders can turn one dice into a 6 automatically). Then all of them hit and wound with full rerolls and extra attacks resulting in 44, -1 rend saves on poor big G. With G out I HAD to win next initiative to retaliate with the other cabbage and remove the big 40 blob. I lost, he charge into my objective and put more models than me inside (I had a unit of 20 ardboyz inside but he managed to put more marauders after combat was resolved). Major Loss. Good game overall lost mainly due to bad decisions and lack of knowledge on my side. I have never seen marauders pulling off tricks like this. I should had absolutely avoid being charged by them. Probably best strategy was to bunker and wait for him to come to me but I was frustrated/ unpatient from the previous game plus I totally underestimated marauders . Major loss but a fun and educating game. A bit disappointed overall with the 0-3 …. Your thoughts and advice would be very appreciated by this bruised Megaboss 😂

This new army is so OP its ridiculus. They totally break the meta. GW what were you thinking?

Mmmm to be honest I dont agree. The CP is free in absolute terms since you already pay it with the battalion cost but it still bears a cost of opportiunity. In other words by using in to bring back boyz you loose the opportiunity to use it for another action and you have to spend another). Thus this cost still burdens you.

@Chris Tomlin definetly intersted for a report as I really dont like ardboz models (only own 20) and love brute but so far struggled to include them in my games effectively (they usually dont do much)

Oversimplifing, it looks a bit like this: 5 boyz unit --> you pay (120+50=) 170 points for a 50% chance to gain 90 points (clearly a very bad bet ) 10 boyz unit--> you pay 170 for a 50% chance to gain 180 points (still a bad bet ) 15 boyz unit--> you pay 170 for a 50% chance to gain 270 points (an ok/ fair bet ) 20 boyz unit--> you pay 170 for a 50% chance to gain 360 points (from thsi point upwards it starts looking good...) This is of course an oversimplification since the above analysis does not factor for the fact that you can use the ability more than once per game (once per phase) thus increasing the probability of gain (but also increasing the cost of opportiunity). Also it does not factor the side benefit of free movement gained by the unit appearing at the edge you want it to. But its an indication on where the ability stands...

I might be getting it wrong but the way I read it is: Breath of Gorkamorka states that it doubles (triples if you role a double) the units Move characteristic. So in the hero phase you have suddenly a Move characteritic of 20 (or 30) until your next hero phase. Then (still on the hero phase as stated in the Mighty Destroyers description) you use Might Destroyers to make a Normal Move (another 20 or 30 in). Then on your movement pahse you make your normal move for (another 20 (or 30). Minimum 60, maximum 90 in move by the end of your movement phase.

he is great in big waagh. You can use both mighty destroyers and bonesplitterz spell on him to give him crazy movement 10" basic move--> with spell goes to 20" (or 30") + fly -->then use mighty destroyers (one extra move) Means you can move him up to 60in in a single turn

Wait what is in the Y axis? these dmg outputs (0,9-3,6) seem pretty low.

Played a bit with the fantastic new tool posted by used @NoMaDhOoK (thanks dude - its awesome) in relation to the discussion above about Gordrakk vs MBoMK Here is the damage output for unbuffed version vs buffed version of the two (buffed = full waagh 2+ 2+ plus warchanter damage buff). Gordrakk performs better in terms of damage but not so much better. x access is save characteristic of opponent. Y axis is damage output This is only from combat damage output (not taking into accout MW from charge, shooting attack or SfV stacking) This certainly does not resolve the arguments for or against but its a nice insight

Thats fantastic. Thank you very much for your effort and generosity to share this minor observations for feaure update: -couldn't add D3+1 damage to weapons -save + print feaures would be really nice to have

but if you decide to include him and accept all the downsides of the decision (higher cost, lowere survivability, no command trait artifact) why loose one of his biggest benefits, the guaranteed 6 Waagh points? do you base that on the risk of loosing him too early due to lower survavibility? Edit: I realise now you probably suggest this because you loose the trait as well...

Lots of good insight. Thanks folks. I am thinking if I end up with a list similar to one proposed my @Malakree (1cabbage+1 goddrak+ 2 warchanter+wurgog+big waagh) then if I deploy tightly I can reach 14 Waagh points round 1. (6 from big G, 4 from warchanter and 4 from waagh comand ability). It this case I will need to hold back first round and hope the hell I will unleash in turn 2 where everything will be hitting on 2+ (big G on1+) will be sufficient to clear the table. Most probably by the start of my second turn my oppoent will have moved and captured objectives so the queston is: will the hitting back be hard enough?. Its a matter of catching-up on objectives . In this case I see one problem. Alpha strikes bringing the game on my table side and locking me away from objectives from too far. I am thinkging that it might worth it to trade Wurgog for Weidnob with teleport (just for the possibility /threat of catapulting one cabbage anywhere needed). Wurgog =Weirnob+1 CP for defence during first turn alpha If I go for Ironsunz as per @broche I loose both Ironclad and Ignax scales. I am struggling to trade these for -1 to hit first round of combat plus the -1 rend item. I might be wrong but i like the idea of the super tanky cabbage and my list philosophy revolves behind that. The coutner charge looks great on paper. I have never tired Ironsuz though. Has it made a big difference for you? In the end it boils down on how I will decide to play. Hold back a bit or go full yolo first round. For sure it feels 2 cabbage is not the most rational list (compared to lots and lots of bodies) but its something I wanted to play for so long and I want to make it as much fun as possible...

Where the +4 comes from?

Yeah i see your point. My cp engine is supposed to be the fungoid and i am toying with the idea of x2 fungoids for even more cps. My concerns with big waagh is that it kicks off at round 2 and tournament play very often ends by round 3 due to time (at least in my club). In any case big waagh it needs a very different approach to play than the yolo pure IJ style. More "wait and hit back" rather than charge head on. And this seems a bit counter intuitive with 2 angry cabbages .

Daaaaaaamn, I was pretty sure this limitations as only for Big Waagh, not pure IJ. Thanks for the catch! Well this runis everything . I want to like Gordrakk but so far I struggled with him dying too fast and costing too much. and I am feeling a cabbage with Metalrippa Kalw will output more damage that poor old G at least in my local meta which is 2+ save heavy . Mmmmm I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. "I am running no CPs"? Can you plese clarify? I want to stick to Ironjaws because I find Cabbages very independent with their own Might Destroyers. they basically run/ reach wherever they want. Obviously as you say Ardfist goes ut of the window but to keep the second artifact I am thinking something like this: Still a bit nervous about dropping the warchanter and also cant decide about the weirdnob vs second fungoid

So, hitting a local tournament this weekend and thinking to play a double dragon list for the first time. I really enjoy how cabbages play and they tend to be MVPs in my 2k IJ armies so far. One trick I would love to pull with this list is alpha strike 2 cabbages with mighty destroyers on the front line, the frst cabbage hit and delete the screens and the second cabbage activate with smashing and bashn pile in and reach the valuable stuff behind. I am considering dropping either 1 warchanter or the weirdnob for a second fungoid for the CP generation. But I am torn because the tepeort of the weirdnob is a cosntant headache for the oppoenent and had won me several gaems with late game objective capture What do you guys think?

these are absolutely wonderful! So inspiring!

Really curious, does everyone still feels Fyreslayers is a hopelss match up for IJ? Or I am reading this wrong?

thanks @Reuben Parker and @Malakree ! what about anvils/ objective holders/ support in a Big waagh DD list? ardboyz or savage booyz? MSUs or bigger units? Weirdnob or wurgog? 1 chanter or 2? So manyy choices! My IJ brain is not used to so many choices 😂

Does double dragon has a place in big waagh? What do you guys think?

Preparing for a local tournament. What do yu guys think about this list: The idea is to make a 6-spells-per-hero-phase list. The Weirdnob cast 3 or 4 spells per round (with balewind + double green puke) and the wurgog another 2 spells. List also gives 3 unbinds which is nice. If I read the rules correctly allocating the weirdnob to be general and having no other MEGABOSS in the list, means I avoid the mandatory artefacts of Ironsunz. Thoughts?

You are right guys. Thanks for catching this. Did a lot of mistakes on this first run since we almost played and read the tome in parallel. I also realised (after posting) it might be annoying for some people to read long battle report here. Will post in a blog in the future. Apologies.

So with Orruk Warclans warm in my hands I arranged a game with my best gaming pal Spyros against his also freshly introduced Skaven soup army. Spyros is an old Skaven player that took a yearly detour from the rats to play Soul wars Evocator lists. I was also detouring with Nighthaunt, playing occasional Waagh bombs (badly) after GH2019. So, we both knew the feel of our armies but at the same time everything was new to a great extend. My list was: The Great Waagh Gordrakk 6 Gore Gruntas 10 brutes 10 ardboys Warchanter Weirdnob shaman Megaboss on foot Ironfist Bloodtoofs Spyros list was (approximately) Vermin;ord Deciever Warlock Bombardier Screaming Bell 40 plague monks 6 Stromfiends Loads of Clan rats in 20-rat units Lists were more casual than competitive but can usually deliver some punch at local tournaments. Nevertheless, our inexperience with the new armies lead us to tons of tactical mistakes as you will see. We played Duality of Death without any Realm Rules. We use a lot of scenery as per GW new terrain rules, so the table was really packed. I outdropped Spyros and gave him first turn. I deployed all my forces opposite to one objective tightly packed. I did this in order to be able to buff all units in turn from the warchanter. The plan was to advance with all the slow foot units on one objective, secure it with superior punch (since Spyros has deployed his units spread out across both deployment areas) and launce a single super buffed Gordrakk to harass the far objective I gave him first turn 1 Turn Skaven Spyros started his hero phase casting a ton of weird rat spells which our simple Orruk minds cannot comprehend. I was impressed how much was going on his hero phase and my lack of magic defence (a single weirdnob is pathetic in that respect) became very apparent very fast. He buffed the fiends, cast Warp Lightning Vortex on a choke point in front of my deployment zone (that was a great move from his part, it really destroyed my ability to advance) and then he then skitter leaped his Screaming bell general in the far objective. Finally he teleported through a gnaw hole 40 monks around the same objective screening the general. Spyros deployed two of his stormfiends with windlaunches which was a surprise for me since everyone is loosing their minds about how broken warpfire throwers are. I was thus not prepared for the 24”range and deployed my warchanter within threat range of the fiends. Spyros rushed his fiends towards the second objective and got within range of my whole army. Thankfully he was not aware of how crucial the warchanter is in the updated armies and chose to hit my 10 brutes unit instead. My brutes have wrecked his stormfiends many times in the past so he had a good reason to fear them. He ultra-dialled the fiends with several nasty rat tricks (spells and tokens) and they ended up dealing 17 wounds on the brutes in a single shooting phase. That was fucken impressive! He scored 1 VP 1 Turn Orruks Ok it was time to act. I noticed a mistake in Spyros deployment. Although he had screened his Screaming bell general with monks there was a point where the monks touched the screaming bell base. Charging Gordrakk there mean I was within reach of the screaming bell with my 1” range weapons. Warchanter buffed Gordrakk with a 3d6 charge and the 6 Gruntas with the +1 damage. Weirdnob cast mystic shield on Gordrakk (that was a mistake I should have unbinded the Warp Lightning Vortex) and then I used the free teleport to send him across the table. I used mighty destroyers on the Gruntas and beelined them to charge the stormfiends. Gordrakk rolled a 5 on 3D6 failing his charge so I had to spend a command point to reroll. He barely managed the second time dealing 3 MW on the Screaming Bell. Gruntas hit the fiends dealing another 3 MW wounds on the charge and taking control of the objective. I chose to activate Gordrakk channelling all attacks on the bell. He easily smashed it to bits just with his two weapons (never rolled for the cabbage attacks) BIG RULES MESHUP here from my part since I activated then Smashin and Bashin. Smashin and Bashin is a BATTLE TRAIT and not a Command Ability, therefore it cannot be used in the Big Waagh (Q%@#%@#%). That was a big mesh up (sorry mate). Gruntas taking wrongly priority wrecked the stormfiends with 17 wounds killing 3 and bringing the 4th to 2 wounds. I couldn’t believe how good our revamped heavy cavalry is in the charge if buffed by the warchanter. The rest of the army rushed slogged forward through the vortexes getting slowly fried. I scored 1 VP We rolled and I go the double turn I was hoping for. 2 Turn Orruks Knowing what 40 buffed monks can do, I decided to retreat Gordrakk to further chase his verminlord in the next round. I flew him over a building hoping the plague monks will remain guarding the objective. I buffed the brutes with +1 damage then attempted to teleport them with Hand of Gork but was easily unbinded. Everyone moved forward slowly sucking more MW by the vortex. The gruntas hit the fiends again but now without the charge and +1 damage only killed one more The 2 melee fiends with Shock Gauntlents stayed alive. Not much else happened. I scored 2 VP 2 Turn Skaven Rat things are damn fast! The plague monks run and successfully charged the hiding Gordrakk (didn’t know they can do that), the Verminlord run and reached the objective abandoned by the plague monks taking hold of it again and two units of clanrats teleported through gnawholes and skitterleap and surrounded my gruntas. Suddenly rats were everywhere! Spyros knew he had to kill the Gruntas to stop me from scoring more points. So, he chose to activate the Fiends first hoping the 40 plague monks will be able take a punch from Gordrakk. The two remaining fiends killed 2 gruntas but the clanrats failed their charges and a kept the objective for another turn. By now the Big Waagh was in full swing and Gordrakk hit back with +1hit+1wound and +1 attack from Strength from Victory. He killed 33 (!!!) plague monks. The rest fled in battleshock. The gruntas finished of the fiends. Everyone else crawled forward getting fried by the vortex. I rolled a 6 on a battleshock loosing a full unit of hardboyz. Spyros scored 1 VP. We rolled for initiative and I won. At this point there was not much Spyros could do. On one side of the board Gordrakk was again free to charge the Verminlord and on the other side my army had finally arrived in combat and was ready to charge. I would definitely keep the objective for another round scoring three VP. Spyros had no way to catch me on points. We called it a day. Observations My first experience with the new IJ is that we became better and more consistent at what we were already good (wrecking face) but we still suffer at what we always suffered (board control, consistent threat range, overcoming screens, body count). This match was mostly lost by my opponent rather than won by me. Spyros did some serious tactical errors (failing to screen correctly, failing to single out warchanter to shoot) not to mention the big blunder from my side activating Smashin and Bashing when I should not have done so. Two warchanters is a must. One is two vulnerable and force you to deploy too tight. Footboss no matter how much I like him cannot keep up (this is even more apparent than before) and now he is also very expensive. He will stay only in fluffy lists. A buffed Gordrakk and 6 gruntas are all the punch you need really. Fast and hitting like a green train. I am thinking to keep the hammer and try a magic heavy list next. The idea is to rain spells on opponent until the full waagh builts, then wreck havoc. I have already in mind a list with a Wurgogg prophet addition that can deal 6 spells per round. More on that in the following post 😊

I just logged in in to post the same thing! Add a Wurgogg and you can get up to 7 spells per hero phase