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Sorrow

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    Broken Realms: Kragnos - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    So, I read the Broken Realms Kragnos and I have mixed feelings on the way Slaaneshi side was handled.

     

    Spoiler

    First, they are literal children of Slaanesh, even calling Slaanesh "their father".  So I would assume that they are mighty indeed, but the way the get killed by a family of vampire hunters is just absolutely tragicomic. Also, where are all the Hedonites? In Broken Realms short stories, we are told that Sigvald, Glutos and that named Lord of Pain are all going towards Excelsis? Nobody of them appears. Their final talk with Belakor implies once again some grand Slaaneshi scheme going on, maybe GW will follow on it, maybe not.

     

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    So, I read the Broken Realms Kragnos and I have mixed feelings on the way Slaaneshi side was handled.

    SPOILER WARNING:

    Spoiler

    First, they are literal children of Slaanesh, even calling Slaanesh "their father".  So I would assume that they are mighty indeed, but the way the get killed by a family of vampire hunters is just absolutely tragicomic. Also, where are all the Hedonites? In Broken Realms short stories, we are told that Sigvald, Glutos and that named Lord of Pain are all going towards Excelsis? Nobody of them appears. Their final talk with Belakor implies once again some grand Slaaneshi scheme going on, maybe GW will follow on it, maybe not.

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    50 minutes ago, Yoid said:

    AoS 3.0 changes can fix a lot of things. New heroic interventions, new monster capabilities in the charge phase, reaction abilities on each phase of the game. They may even fix the double turn with it. Lets see. Generic Battlations confirmed to have some rules too (contrary to only reducing drops) that may trigger some unexpected synergies with our troops.

    I will be blunt and say what I said only in private to @Enoby.

    For me, models and lore matter more then rules. Rules change, but models and lore are eternal.

    In model department, our release was extraordinary. But I am sad with out lore treatment, for example, were not Sigvald and Glutos heading to Excelsis too? What happened to them? I mean, now was the perfect time to explore Hedonite societies in detail.

    • Like 4

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    21 hours ago, AngryPanda said:

    A couple weeks ago I stated a theory of mine that at least one or more writers either feel salty about Slaanesh’s first release, aren’t fans of the army or simply don’t like them, or both. I took a guess from the numerous rumors that there was drama/debate behind the scenes when releasing our somewhat recent disappointment of a battletome, and this confirms it somewhat more so. However, I feel that Dexcessa is actually pretty decent, and can be considered a cheaper replacement to a KoS or a more reliable Sigvald. 

    Well, it is all over now.

    The models are all out, the rules are all out and I highly doubt that we will be getting any novels dedicated to Hedonites.

    Shame, since with the Twins, Sigvald and Glutos, you think there would be so many things to explore about Slaaneshi of the Realms. Quick example: I am reading a Dynasty of Monsters, which was released with new Soulblight Vampires and you really get a good insight into one Vampire dynasty, the Avengorii. Cursed City novel was practically dedicated to Vrykos dynasty.

     

    • Sad 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    13 minutes ago, AngryPanda said:

     

    Dexcessa is the clear winner, Synessa is trash. I’m almost certain that when they were writing the rules for Synessa, the writers must of slipped and hit their heads while smoking impure crack-cocaine; there’s no way any reasonable AoS gamer (much less a writer) would look at the birth child of a God and say “yea let’s only give her one cast with no bonuses.” A Shardspeaker is better! 
     

    Comparatively, Dexcessa had more attacks and the ability to apply one command ability for free to a Daemon Unit; lists with her in Lurid Haze that also take the Supreme Symberites battalion, in addition to the Rod of Misrule, is essentially going to give Slaanesh players infinite command points and a free CP on a Daemon Unit. She’s also quite mobile as well, making her a prime deep strike candidate. 
     

    I personally still feel that both Glutos and Sigvald are superior for army synergy and spell casting, and melee prowess respectively. If I were to take Dexcessa, I’d run her along a 6-man unit of Fiends to give them free command ability benefits. 

    I have to say that I am genuinely wondering why are Slaaneshi rules being written this way. Even incompetence has its limits.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    8 hours ago, pnkdth said:

    There seem to be a disconnect between what the twins are and the expectations of what people wanted/believed them to be. They are not the spawn of a fully powered and unleashed Slaanesh but the result of a portion of Slaanesh's power seeping through the cracks of its prison. Not saying you have to love it, just manage expectations. Two god-tier units which immediately overshadows Keepers would not have been ideal either (as I suspect people would have been furious claiming GW making the battletome obsolete and forcing us to pay for new models/expansions to compete, like typical GW amirite?).

    Seeing as HoS got a lot of new units recently and a new battletome I didn't even expect the twins to be a thing at all. Instead, we get two new models who can realistically fit into the same army or complement an army with their respective abilities and areas of focus.

    TL;DR: Imma wait for the rules and see what's what. 

    They are called Children of Slaanesh by Games Workshop, therefore people are correct in their expectations that children of Slaanesh walk the Realms. As Children of Slaanesh, they ought to be far more powerful than regular KoS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEyEVACRJZQ

     

    AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

    in Death

    Posted

    Just now, Fred1245 said:

    Almost every fantasy creature that can fly would be completely incapable of getting off the ground in real life. There's a reason birds have hollow bones.

    Avengorii fly the same way Stardrakes or Zombie Dragons or Terrorgheists, or Pheonixes, or Bloodthirsters, or Plague Drones do: Magic.

    I knew the stupidity of my question before posting but still...it would be cool to have some lore reason. They have centaur like bodies, which would greatly lower their change of flying.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    21 minutes ago, Mangod said:

    Well, unfortunately, someone has to take the L, and if it's a triple threat between Krag, Kroak, and the Twins, it's 33% chance it'll be us.

    True, true.

    Still, the Twins are basically demigods walking the Realms, then again Kroak and Kragnos are also deity level.

    It appears story is going towards Siege of Excelsis in Ghur, we know Hedonites such as Sigvald and Glutos are moving there.

     

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Yoid said:

    Painbringers are fine lorewise. 2 wounds 2 attacks 3+ 3+ -1 rend with 4+ rerollable save, exploding 6s and mortal wounds into 6s, there are few ways to make them even more elite. The main problem is their point cost and lack of good synergies.

    Is not like the Slaangor Fienbloods, wich are extremely unnacurate to their lore.

    They need to come down in cost, hopefully GW reads through the survey we sent them.

    Also, once again, I truly hope the Twins are not defeated by Kragnos or Kroak.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    15 hours ago, azdimy said:

    Grave guards have twice the output of Painbringers point for point. While their offensive stat is similar on a per model basis, the grave guard warscroll gives you 10 models against 5 for the pain bringers

    I m hearing that they are a lot of synergy in the gravelords book but they are difficult to accomplish while hos is a struggle to find any. Gravelords can play magic dominance with Nagash if they want to play that way, we don t have that option so far (twins may change that)

    Blood knights have enough allegiance buffs in the battletome (retreat and charge, permanent buffs for killing units) to edge out the slickblade for less points.

    The army has access to cheap battleline, cheaper support heroes when do not.

    Overrall,I feel gravelord players are in a much better place than where we are with their new battletome but time will tell

    From various comments online, while some Soulblight players are indeed having worries, neither Soulblight nor Lumineth would trade their rules and cost for Hedonite rules and cost. I asked more than once, including some great tournament players in my local meta.

    Also, I want all of us to realize that we are comparing the Crème de la crème of Slaaneshi mortal infantry armies, the Myrmidesh Painbringers with Grave Guards, who are per lore, raised from death into undeath in masses and are not the lore fitting equivalent of a Myrmidesh Painbringer. 

    The fact that we are comparing them stat for stat, speak of how weak Hedonites truly are.

    I could speak more, of what even famous reviewers have said, the sheer absence of new lore and story progression for Hedonites. Lumineth got full novels dedicated to them, Soulblight are getting a novel dedicated to them.

    I hope to God that the Twins are not in BR: Kragnos only for Kragnos or Kroak to defeat them.

    @azdimy Great post!

    Slaaneshi worldview and concepts

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    On 4/1/2021 at 4:01 PM, Urauloth said:

    *stomping a rusty, muddy boot onto the perfumed marble bounds of this Slaaneshi thread*

    Not to derail anything here, but since someone mentioned the character of the Death Guard, it's worth noting that they're incredibly varied once you get past the shallow caricatures you tend to see when they crop up as jobbers in other people's storylines. Not only do all seven of the legion's companies have different outlooks and tendencies, there's a tremendous range of attitudes, theologies, philosophies and delusions among the ranks.

    The answer to "why would anyone want to be a plaguemarine" is simple in a lot of cases - they didn't, they were transformed by the destroyer plague. Some of them have been driven mad by what they've become, while others see it as the ultimate proof of their legendary endurance. Some of them take great pride in Nurgle's blessing and lean hard into his cult, seeing him as a benevolent god and themselves as his altruistic messengers. Others are bitter about their transformed state and want to see everything else laid as low as they are. Still others are simply morose and depressive, resigned to their existence and the decay of everything in the galaxy - some of these believe that by visiting destruction on other worlds, they're helping others to accept the inevitable and freeing them from the falsehood of hope. Some don't care much about the galaxy at all any more and are completely obsessed with Nurgle's alchemical sciences and numerological arts. There's really a lot going on with the legion, and it reflects Nurgle factions in general. Attitudes to the Long War and to their father Mortarion are further divergences, and these can be severe enough that at least two warbands have split from the legion entirely.

    Of course, people are drawn into Nurgle's worship all kinds of ways, and many serve him willingly. Both the 41st millennium and the Mortal Realms are harsh places, and a loving deity who cares for the lest of his servants has a powerful draw - even if his love manifests in unhealthy ways. The downtrodden and the desperate, who exist in the billions in the Emperor's galaxy, often suffer famine and disease already; propitiating the Lord of Decay offers them tangible relief from their woes which the distant Emperor never could, and perhaps the power to harness their miseries as vengeful weapons against their oppressors. Nurgle also promises opportunities for immortality and rebirth in his garden, albeit in ways that most would consider horrifying.

    Of course, if you grew up on Eliathada or in certain parts of Ghyran, Nurgle is probably the only god you know, and all this is perfectly normal to you. ;)

    I highly, highly recommend reading The Lords of Silence, which is the only Black Library novel so far to give the Death Guard a fair shake. Even if you're not a XIV legion enthusiast, it's a very good look at servants of Nurgle generally. A very close-up look, if that's something you want.

    Lords of Silence is a amazing novel, probably among the best explorations of Nurgle yet. I also recommend Tome of Decay for philosophy of Nurgle.

    I must add to what you wrote, Nurgle is a deity of decay, death and rebirth. That rebirth part is crucial. He loves life in all its forms. He is not Nagash.

    For example, Typhus of Death Guard often uses "God of endless rebirth" when referring to Nurgle.

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    @Yoid

    Your draft of a novel, which I reread 3 times, is a proper and rich exploration of Slaanesh. BL could definitely use your creativity.

    Slaanesh can be approached from literally infinite amount of angles, but only if the writing is good. Otherwise, as @Enoby and I discussed, all Slaaneshi characters become fundamentally the same, a trap which BL routinely walks into.

    I will admit that I am genuinely surprised, not even disappointed, that we got zero novels. There is so much to explore, the Children of Slaanesh, Sigvald and Glutos are walking the realms. How Hedonite societies function and so on.

    Maybe we will get a novel in time, but it seems like the perfect moment has passed.

     

    • Like 1

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

    I'd say it all comes to execution. If the minis are great even Johann's faction could be a bestseller. If the minis are bad even the best concept can be a failure.

    Executions are great....wait that came out wrong....

    I am simply not sure that Skaven are that popular.

     

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