Ghoooouls

Yeah what I meant by 'updated LoN' is really the focus on traditional vamps I.e soulblight, didn't mean the army will still be called LoN, in fact I think it is much more likely they soulblight will be the focus. I didn't mean I thought or heard that hes coming back, just an example of a cool vamp. I do love vlad and hope he comes back but I doubt it. The reason I mention him is because hes always been a sort of icon/leader for vampires and he could well be this again. If I'm honest though I'm just wanting an awesome vampire character, would be happy with updated mannfred. I would love to see any of the other characters you mentioned as well don't get me wrong. And the death of characters in the end times is a little different when considering characters from the death allegiance. Vlad was a vampire and with rumours that he himself was neferatas husband (forget his name) and supped the elixir from nagash making him immortal in a sense. In regards to heroes that died in the end times, the only ones coming back to 'life' that make the most sense are vampires and similar. Hell arkhan has died and hes still here in AoS. Eltharian was killed by arkhan himself and hes made some sort of appearance. Durthu, allarielle, teclis, hints at tyrion eventually and malekith/malerion, neferata, drycha, skarbrand, kairos, skulltaker, archaon, the changeling, blue scribes, morathi, nagash, thanquol, lord kroak etc. There are so many from the 'world that was' here in AoS, so why not vlad? I understand most of them didn't die like Vlad did, and a lot became Gods, but as I say it would be easy to resurrect a lord of death in lore and have it make sense, it has been done before. I get what you're saying about his story but I think it would be cool. Again, I do not think it's likely, I merely mentioned his name as an example.

I seriously hope they do this. I'd love proper soulblight with new rules for manny and maybe introduce vlad

Really hoping this leads to the updated LoN being vlad/manny/neffy focused.

Lord of change, kairos, teclis, Arkhan.. pretty much all great casters benefit from the portal massively.

Seems like the AELF archetype can choose lumineth realmlords as their army. Think there will be an option to choose vanari or scinari?

Let's hope so. As LoN/GA death player I have some okay options too, but was nice to have some really good ones alongside and give more choice. (That may sound odd as legions have like 18 artefacts 6 per legion, but the majority are very odd and/or one use only which I'm not a fan of). I also play frequently with an avid bretonnia fan who's king, at 400 points, will now be hugely worse without access to rend 3, ethereal or the sword of judgement. I suppose he may not even be around anymore... I guess the thing is, I don't often play 100% competitive games, and we can just have a house rule for games where we can use the old artefacts, however I like being able to play an awesome battle and come out of it thinking I could use that army at a tournament, which I couldn't do with house rules.

I think the issue will now be that no one uses the realm ones. Whilst I agree it was annoying always seeing the same artefacts in use, these new ones seem distinctly lackluster. It's the older armies that will suffer the most. With arguably the best one being rerolling 1s to save, which all armies have multiple ways of getting already.

Yeah all the new artefacts suck, pretty much every tome has better artefacts but I guess that's what they're going for. Lots of armies have now lost the option to push through tanky units. No more rend 3 artefacts for anyone, no more mortals on 6s etc. On a side note, no more ethereal VLoZD, no more 4++ saves etc. Older armies will suffer from this.

The errata only states that the active player chooses which to heal, the first sentence of the spell rule is still 'at the end of each turn roll a dice....' so the chalice triggers from the game phases, the player who's turn it is then gets to choose which units to apply this to, but they must be applied and in this situation it was only ghouls nearby. I then choose where to put them back on the board. The question is whether this happens before game scoring or not, which I assume it should but definitely not clear.

Yeah, it's a weird one for sure and I'm surprised it hasnt had an faq!

Yeah this is what we did essentially. Although looking back on it, the endless spell is not 'my' ability, the endless spell is it's own model and triggers at the end of both players turns if that makes sense? I guess I paid the points and I cast it, but still it has it's own ability that triggers at the end of both turns. I think it makes most sense to follow the rules we did otherwise it creates some fairly unfair situations.

I'm talking about the immortis guard which hasnt been faqd and the downright silly amount of ward saves certain units can benefit from. Getting a 5++ from spell instead of 6++ death save will be fine and barely noticeable for the most part whilst quashing the silly combos you could get before. IMO there should never have been multiple 'after' saves in the first place. My only worry is that more and more armies are getting massive access to mortal wounds everywhere but I assume that may well be addressed in the future if this rule goes down well. Hell I've done 3 games recently as FEC and my 6++ on the GKoT was successful maybe once or twice. I just wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun and think it's a disastrous change. And on that sidenote, points cost are not based on subfactions.

I'm all for it. Yeah it is a slight nerf for FEC but it gets rid of the ridiculous stuff like nagash having 2+ rerollable armour then 2+ shrug to guard with 5++, 5++, 6++. If nagash himself rolls a 1 to shrug and the wounds go on to him, ge gets 4++, 5++, 6++ and can heal himself and guard 3 per turn. The tanky stuff you can get was starting to get stupid. Mortal wounds will now be more deadly, as they should, and if it means I have to sacrifice a single 6+ ward when I cast a 5++ spell with an incredibly damaging GK I'm all for it. I wouldnt call choosing the 5++ over the 6++ a 'big' nerf and it will probably make very little difference for the most part and if it gets rid of stupidly tanky stuff at the same time then that's a bonus.

Okay so I played FEC and played against Lumineth. At one point, it was my opponents turn, he had killed enough of my ghouls to capture the objective they were on. However, I had the chalice up, and so 16 ghouls came back and I Congo lined them to the objective that his cow had just killed a load off, meaning I now outnumbered him on said objective. My question is this - it was my opponents turn, and both calculating objective scoring and ghouls returning from the chalice are done 'at the end of the turn'. So does he capture it, score and then my ghouls come back? Or does he not capture it because my ghouls come back? Which happens first? We played that he captured it, then scored and then my ghouls came back, seeing as how it was his turn we decided it was best to use the rules similar to 'start of phase' abilities, where the player who's turn it is does all their 'start of phase' abilities before the opposing player does their 'start of phase' abilities and then the phase properly commences. Anyone able to confirm this?

It's one 'ward save' only - death units will still get their normal armour save and their 6++ ward save allegiance thing. The leak clearly states only 1 dice roll per wound or mortal wound allocated. The rules go like this - attacker attacks and wounds, unit takes armour save, failed armour saves go through to allocate wounds. It is at this wound allocation point that special 'ward saves' kick in like the flesh eaters 6++ one, so they still get that special ward save after their armour save, but no others. This means that if the GKoTG casts his spell on himself, he will get his armour save and then have to choose he 5++ from his spell, or the 6++ from the allegiance ability, not use both.

They can be 'hired' by any army is the lore they were going for. Sons of Behemat allegiance can have no allies, it'll be all the other armies that get an update of some kind to allow them to use one. Kinda like bonereapers have no allies but GA death can still use them

Yeah I'm most excited for this. Going from the choice of a 5 wound vamp to 440 point dragon lord just doesnt cut it. I cant wait for the options.

Yeah I wasnt trying to be a **** or anything, was just giving details so you can be prepared next battle! Or not if this new rule is true haha

Have I missed a sons of behemat leak? Could you say which page it's on? Thanks!

Yeah I agree this is a big step in the right direction. I play LoN and FEC and I am happy this is being introduced.

Nagash cant do this, both morghasts and the immortis guard can take nagashs wounds, but the roll for nagash to shrug the wounds to them is *before* allocating wounds. Since ward saves are done when allocating a wound and then negate them, nagash only gets his armour save, then shrugs the wound to his guard, who then *do not* get an armour save, but *do* get their own ward save, as you allocate the wound to them. For instance - nagashs 4++ is done 'each time you allocate a wound to this model' - seeing as the roll to shrug off the wound to his guard is done 'before allocating wounds', he cannot do both his ward save and the shrug. But what nagash could do before this rule is have a 2+ rerolling 1s save, then a 2+ shrug onto immortis guard who have a 5++ from the spell ossiarch have, then a 6++ from their allegiance ability. If nagash failed the shrug and rolled a 1, he would then get a 4++, a 5++ from the spell that targets the caster and then a 6++ from allegiance. He can then also heal himself and his guard for 3 per turn automatically. I'm glad this rule is being introduced!