Ganigumo
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Posts posted by Ganigumo
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33 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:
I love the idea! I was going to proxy it for shiggles until I realized that my opponents likely would not have much fun with it beyond seeing 16 "cocatrice" on the field. On average (assuming they're all in range) 8d6 mortal wounds as the birds try to play keep away? Sounds like Tzeentch shooting to me. I still think it's hilarious, but won't be trying it like I thought to do. That being said, go for it!
That's pretty cool. I'd like it if they did a more full release of slaanesh beastmen, but I think we're going to get that chaos dwarf/elf treatment. GW will point and say "See! They exist!" and that will be the end of it. Admittedly I'm disillusioned about Beasts getting any toys. They don't love us anymore! *goat sobbing* When the Morathi book comes out I want there to be cool new stuff beyond the 2 heroes, but I think if there were they'd come in the box set like with that nurgle vs stormcast box. That pessimism being said, Please give slaanesh based Tzaangor enlightened equivalent!
On a separate note, that slaangor is a long boi! He looks like he's 2 times the height of the others if he wasn't crouching. Could just be the artwork, could just be tall, oorrrr ... could be slaanesh minotaur, err excuse me, slaanesh bullgor. Still, cool stuff.
For Morghur!
I suspect Slaanesh mortals will be like the Tzeentch mortal release, which was Kairic Acolytes, Tzaangors, Enlightened/Skyfires, and some characters.
So it will probably be slaangors, some marauder equivalent unit, and one or two more elite kits, either better/mounted slaangors and/or a chaos warrior equivalent (although slaangors might fit that slot anyways) alongside a few characters.
Makes me think that *MAYBE* khorne could get khornegors in shattered realms too? Although I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. -
3 minutes ago, Equinox said:
Am I the only one that feels like Sons, Lumineth and to a lesser degree OBR are partial releases and we will see another wave of models early into the new edition? In particular, I feel like Sons is only a 1/2 release and we can expect another release in the next 18-24 months. Just seems like there isn't enough stuff to justify a full faction and what comes with one (battalions, minimal options, etc...). Would like to have seen a second mega-G kit that was focused on magic and shooting. The option for a mega-G wizard that doesn't burn trait/artifact/etc., would have complimented the overall faction without being broken (barring goofy new rules for the model).
All that said, my biggest struggle is whether I am going to assemble and paint my single model to fit with my destruction or death armies. I am leaning towards death because I have a fun narrative using the Gatebreaker as the supreme judge and my nighthaunts as the jury and executioners (literally and figuratively). Figure I will decide this weekend when I bring the model home and begin working on it.Unlike other factions it doesn't feel as though sons of behemat can expand as naturally, it would basically just be new variants of gargant rather than a new concept.
That said I wouldn't be surprised to see a Brodd model or upgrade kit at some point, or possibly a new smaller gargant to go alongside the mancrushers but I don't see it in the near future the same way lumineth is being set up for.-
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@Scotian Giant I realize that 160/480 1/4 really favors units of 4, but this army is DESPERATE for more units to be able to cover more of the board, and if you drop it to 160 you would rarely see units of gargants. This serves as a buff and makes for interesting decisions in listbuilding, do you take the bonus value of a fourth gargant? or do you take the separate units to force opponents to split fire and get more board control.
Personally in lieu of a warscroll updates I think the same should be done for dankhold troggoths but this isn't the Gitz discussion... -
8 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
What do you think about the army if the points were:
- Mega-Gargant 400 pts
- Mancrusher 140/400 ptsI think that the principal problem after two games is a very low number of wounds for the survivability of the models in most of the games.
What probably needs to happen for the army is for mancrushers to lose the horde discount, and just be 160 points, units of behemoths is a cool concept but you really need bodies I think. Dropping them down to 5 400 point slots, and opening up some potential allies would go a long way. I'm thinking maybe just allowing "Grot" keyword, which would allow some moonclan stuff and gnoblars.
The army mostly suffers from the same issues as monsters in general though. Big bases are hard to maneuver, and they don't have the raw speed to make up for it (I have experience playing arachnaroks...), plus incredibly low model count and their damage is lower than you would expect for such expensive models.
If I were to attempt to fix the army without changing warscrolls I would do this:- Every Mega can take an artifact, for free
- Megas can just walk into combat, they don't need to charge
- Megas can retreat with no penalties, they just walk out of combat
- Increased Pile in distance for Megas
- Mega Gargants can end their normal move on top of models with 4(3?) or less wounds if they do so all models in that unit may make a 5"(4"?) move, any models under the base after the move are slain
- Mancrushers 160/480 unit size 1-4
Rules 5 and 6 would possibly make the army competitive to some extent, and 6 would definitely be a HUGE buff to stomper mobs, since you get extra gargants for free basically. 5 would need to play around with the restrictions, 130mm is 5.11 inches, so a 5" move would guarantee a few casualties in a vacuum, but could be devastating in a tight spot, since the models might not be able to move out of the way.
I've already bought my army, and am gonna paint/play them regardless. I'll be happy as long as they don't get smashed in casual games, but it would be nice if they had a few tricks for competitive play.-
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@Tizianolol @Gwendar my thoughts on arcanite cabal is that its purpose is mostly as a cheap artifact and CP. The effect is fairly weak, but the heroes in the battalion are pretty useful and I know I've often found trouble fitting battalions in when listbuilding since most of our battalions require a heavy commitment to a certain style of play.
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Sadly I don't have any bestigors yet, or in my immediate future as I'll be starting work on my sons of behemat army. Although something that surprised me this game was how useful the banner was, since I had 5-6 wizards it put out some decent damage.
I think getting the LoC on turn 1 is fine if you go first, since the first hero phase is usually low impact so you wouldnt lose out on much.
The extra CP and battleshock immunity was very useful though.
I could try some enlightened on disc as a hammer unit, I'm also considering working curseling and Grashrak into the list. If I switch subfactions I'll probably go factionless i think, and bring in a Fatemaster.
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So I finally got a game in with my phantasmagoria of Fate guild of summoners and it went pretty poorly for me. The list:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners
Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Leaders
Great Bray Shaman of Tzeentch (100)
Great Bray Shaman of Tzeentch (100)
The Blue Scribes (120)
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Everspring Diadem
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Battleline
10 x Gors of Tzeentch (70)
10 x Gors of Tzeentch (70)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
Units
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (100)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)
Battalions
Phantasmagoria of Fate (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
We played battle for the pass and he was playing nurgle, he brought a couple blightking 5 mans, a 6 man plague drone unit, a 2 man blightlord unit, 30 plaguebearwrs, a guo and a few other heroes.
I took first turn and had my balewind dispelled despite having the rerolls from scribes and an arcane terrain. Which pushed my first LoC summon to t2, and my second to t4, when I had already lost.
My 20 tzaangors got charged by a 5 man unit of blightkings, and did nearly 0 damage over 4 combat phases, only getting freed up when the LoC could start blasting them.
The first turn of the enlightened on foot went fine, using a gor screen to get rerolls and killing 1.5 plague drones in a single phase, but didn't last long after.
Skyfires did nothing. I shot the GuO with both units, did 3 damage, and then he healed it and they got stuck in combat against drones/blightlords, doing very little damage, even with full rerolls most combats.
Gors and ungors sat on points, or worked as chaff, they did their job.
MVP was a bray shaman I put on a balewind. I was able to steal a few objectives for a turn by dragging units off the objective.
My destiny die rolls were ABYSMAL, 5 4s, 3 3s, and a 2, and I know I rolled pretty poorly overall, and my opponents rolls were fire (seriously, that 5++ felt like a 3++, I put about 15 mortal wounds into the GUO in one phase, and he only took 5 or 6, and there were similar rolls for the blightlords and plague drones).
I made some mistakes that may have turned the game though, I shouldnt have bothered attacking the GUO at all, and instead focused on the other units. I tried to explode a unit of blightkings on t4, to get it off the objective, but I should have blasted the harbinger of decay instead, and just used the bray shaman to pull the blightkings off the point (which I ended up doing anyways). I also should have pulled my gors off my objective, that I couldnt hold against the plaguebearers, and moved to try to help cap another objective.
I could play better, but the list could do with some work too, skyfires were sketchy, and without the LoC my damage output is far too low, I'll need to find something else, or maybe change subfactions.
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Rules for Glogg's megamob got leaked.
Army wide passive +1 to regeneration rolls.
Command Ability:
Oblivious to Sorcery: you can use it in YOUR hero phase on a unit of rockguts or fellwaters wholly within 12" of a dankhold hero. Until your next hero phase they ignore spells and endless spells on a 4+
Command Trait:
If the general is alive in the hero phase get a CP on a 4+
Artefact:
5+ shrug but only for mortals.
The battalion is Troggherd but 160 points and gives retreat and shoot/charge
Theres also another loonshrine warscroll update to return half a unit of fellwaters or rockguts. Surprisingly it doesnt require a troggoth general, unlike the squig one.
Overall seems like a fairly weak subfaction, and it does nothing for dankholds. Its a shame the artifact is only a mortal wound shrug since a 5++ would be great on a troggboss/hag.
Loonshrine update is great though.
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1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:
Unfortunately mercs aren't matched play legal.
The original 2 mercs were in Forbidden Power. These rules got superceded by a later publication, GHB19, which expanded the mercs to 8 or so different options. Meaning that the mercs in Forbidden Power were an older publication of those particular rules and no longer usable for match play.
When they did the recent list of usable publications for matched play, GHB19 wasn't on the list, so mercs are no longer matched play legal (without consent from your opponent). Forbidden Power was on the list of usable publications but the mercs part of it had already been updated with new rules, that were then redundant with the release of GHB20.
Q: When choosing an army for a Pitched Battle, what
publications can I use without my opponent’s permission?
A: You can use the warscrolls for units with a Pitched
Battle profile listed in the General’s Handbook 2020
(excluding those listed in the Legends Pitched Battle
Profiles section) and the warscrolls for units with a
Pitched Battle profile in a publication that has a release
date of August 2020 or later.
In addition, when choosing your army, you can use rules
from any of the following publications and any that have
a release date of August 2020 or later:
• Soul Wars: Forbidden PowerThe RaW is pretty clear that all the rules in Forbidden power should be legal. In addition, both malign sorcery and monstrous arcanum specify which parts are legal/illegal in brackets, while forbidden power has no such qualifiers.
Regardless of GW's intention, the rules are written in a way that is not ambiguous in this scenario.
Edit: werent the ghb 2019 rules for those 2 merc companies literally copy/pasted from forbidden power anyway?
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36 minutes ago, Moogypies said:
I hadn't even considered using mercs other then the gargants, time to think it over and see if any are potentially worth the sacrifice of 2 mancrushers.
At 320 you could get from FEC-
30 Ghouls
6 Horrors
3 Flayers
Archregent (Summons a unit of 20 for 1cp later also) and is a wizard for unbinds.
2 Varghulf
2 Ghoul kings
If you went a unit of 3 mancrusher / 1 solo you would get 360-380 pts to use depending on what Megas you pick.
Which could nab you any of the following
40 Ghouls
6 Horrors
6 Flayers
Archregent
2 Ghoul Kings
We would also not generate a CP turn 1. Thats another big loss.
I see the reasoning of a screen, but crypt ghouls have a move of 6 which the gargants will surpass fast so i'd find it hard to hold a big boy back so much for the screen to cover him. Without their 6+fnp they will fold so quickly.
Flayers can keep up, have the same wounds as a mancrusher and a worse save. I feel overall in a sons army a mancrusher will be more effective as it can run/charge near a big boy, has better survivability and better objective capture potential.
An archregent does seem the most worth it though, a 2 cast/deny wizard who can summon a unit of 20 objective holders, it also leaves you with enough for a free CP to offset the merc cost and buy an endless spell.
Struggling to find any value at all in fyreslayers at this point range.While the mercs would be slower, it would allow us to zone out deepstrikes against some armies, and block alpha strikes against others, and even if the mercs force us to slow down our giants going slow is better than having a stonehorn charge our mega gargant.
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Something I just realized. Since forbidden power is legal Fyreslayer and FEC mercs should still be legal too.
A list that runs 2 megas, 4 solo gargants comes in at 1680 with 6 units. 1 in 4 would allow 2 merc units in the remaining 320 points. Obviously there will be other possible setups too.
This could be used to bring in some screens which would be a MASSIVE boon to our army.
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2 hours ago, Primo said:
Am I correct in thinking that the Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider rule add 1 to cast and unbind from the Catchweb Spidershrine affects itself aswell as other Spiderfang Wizards within 12"? So if I had 2 of these models within 12" of each other they would both get +2 to cast and unbind rolls and then +3 if it was casting Scuttletide as its being cast by a Spiderfang Wizard?
Thanks in advance.
The +1 to cast does affect itself, but it doesnt stack with itself since it specifies "within 12" of any friendly models with this ability"
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33 minutes ago, Pitloze said:
Aleguzzlers are gone from GW site. And Manchrushers did not get Gloomspite keywording. Hmmm...
The warscrolls for the aleguzzler and chaos gargant were on the download section of the mamcrushers.
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4 hours ago, Dankboss said:
I think early game kicking your own objectives backwards will be more effective.
Edit:
Or go giga big brain mode and set up a trap by kicking it forwards.
Omega Brain: take multiple kraken eaters and kick objectives closer together so you can hold them with only 1 gargant.
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7 minutes ago, Moogypies said:
Possibly may be worth using Emerald Lifeswarm with a caster giant to have some ok recovery added, or burning head for rerolls of 1 to hit?
Or Palisade, to block shooting and be an actual screen.
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4 hours ago, Myrdin said:
Personally I am a huge fan of any new Beastmen types.
And while God-Gors are not exactly "new" per say, I always kept my hopes to see this Great 4 affiliated Bestigors make a comeback.
And yet, Khorne came and went... no Khorngors. Slaanesh came and went and no Slaangors....
So yeah, I dont hold much hope to ever see them. I am grateful for Tzaangors, since its finally something else then cows, goats and horses. And I also like Tzeentch stuff so there`s that.
Honestly I abhor the fact that the points costs must be unified through out the Alliegances. Why cant Tzaangors be 200 in DoT book and 160 in our book where the synergy is MUCH less volatile than in their native battle tome ? (140 was too low, 200 is too much. Same with Skyfires. At worst they both should be at 180, although I could see Enlightened at 160 and Skyfires at 180). Its just stupid and it really killed some of the comps we had going on due to the massive points inflation.
I would like for Harpies to make a return. Yes we have super fast Centigors but having fly does help a lot. They could use same rules like those Warcry Devils for all I care.
All in all, I just hope when the new edition comes and Tomes are reworked again, we wont be the first. This happened a lot in WFB and now in AoS as well and our army always suffers from it. For once let us come later once the new power shift has settled and let us ride the wave of solid, engaging and fun, instead of mediocre and subpar every single time.
Theres a confimed Slaangor coming in the mortal slaanesh underworlds warband, so there's a chance they could be part of the eventual mortal slaanesh release.
Also Tzaangors are still overcosted in the DoT book, and skyfires have direct competition with flamers (which they lose pretty handily). The biggest issue with Tzaangors imo is that they NEED to be 9+ models to be worth their points, and they're pretty expensive when you need to take 20 for them to be useful. 10 man units are basically worthless unless you can prevent them from taking any casualties before fighting.-
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9 hours ago, novakai said:
yeah if you look at the history of tome Celestial it all been new AOS armies (stormcast, fyreslayers, Slaanesh, Nighthaunt, Ironjawz, OBR, and Gloomspite)
also i would feel it be a bit unprecedented to have 3 gloomspite tomes in a row.
problem i feel is that until GW actually update the spiderfang range they are just going to leave them at where they are right now
2 in a row seems unprecedented already, My theory since we're getting even 2 in a row is that Gitz won't be featured in Shattered realms at all, and this is the way they're giving us new rules. If the next one is spiderfang/moonclan I'd be almost certain of this.
3 hours ago, Pitloze said:Anything new on the Troggoth faction/battalion? Was it coming in this WD?
Also I think I there won't be a new Troggoth model. But that they will (again) rebox the Fellwaters. They already put them on rounds. But they were factionless then (not sure why they bothered back then?).
49 minutes ago, Dankboss said:We may see a Community Article soon, as they've begun previewing WD, but otherwise no.
When they referred to Sulphur Breath Troggoths, I think it was just for the lore, like the Battletome mentions several other types, although not by name.
My thoughts are the Sulpur Breath Troggoths might show up in a supplemental product, they sound like they would be a pretty good fit for a Warcry beast.
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2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:
No, they alternate AoS-40k content so the next after the Troggoth WD must contain 40k content.
Other point, I don't expect Spiderfang will receive any content. The units are very old and you can only bought them from the GW website. The Tome Celestial are an strategy to improve the selling of some units. I think it's more easy for them to add some battalions for Skragrott, Fungoid, Gobbapalooza, Snufflers or Fanatics.
The arachnarok has been on the best selling page for ages now, and it and the scuttleboss go out of stock pretty frequently.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do get a supplement of some sort.
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25 minutes ago, Dolomedes said:
Has anyone tried out using the Tzaangor Enlightened on foot? 100 points for 3 Gors that hit almost as hard as Minotaurs seems like a good pick. They benefit from Bray Shaman movement buffs and they can ambush, so they bring mobility as well as a bit of punch. Unfortunately, they can't run and charge like their Goat-like kin, but their damage output and synergy might just make up for it. The Tzaangor Shaman can give them a flat +1 to hit if he's within 12", and if they don't fight first then they get re-rolls to hit and wound.
I think they would work well behind a block of Gors or Bestigors screening. They have 2" range on their spears, so a rank of Gors/Bestigors in front of them would not only keep them safe (Ungors on 25mm bases are too small to screen out 1" melee attacks), but it would give them a good opportunity to trigger the re-roll to hit/wound ability. You could make a nifty 'Death Star' using a central Bray Shaman (GBS for movement, Tz for damage), a rank of Tzaangor encircling him (their larger base size of 40mm and model height advantage may even block LOS on occasion) and 20 Gors with shields on the outer perimeter. That makes a fast moving block that hits pretty hard and would be tough to shift from an objective.
There is a downside though... I don't like the models. At all.
These boys on some 40mm bases is how GW 'should' have done it
Im testing out some enlightened on foot in a phantasmagoria of fate list for Tzeentch, the plan is to stick them behind my gors, take a charge, then pile in.
The work fine behind ungors too, you just need to be careful to not be base-to-base with the ungors. Ideally you want to be fighting after the opponent anyways.
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2 minutes ago, novakai said:
Stomper tribe: probably the go to tribe, antihorde and the AoE command abilities all see very useful in any game
Breaker tribes: depends if you can choose your loathing when you know which army your facing against, maybe better in the future if garrison becomes more used in the game
Taker tribe: the bonus to objective taking is nice but the abilities preview seems somewhat situational and that we don't know what are the six artifact that can be used
it does look like Mancrusher are going to be the backbone of your army
Stomper with a bunch of mancrushers seems the best, but its possible taker might be best just because of the objective play. We shouldn't underestimate dying slowly while scoring points. Taker is probably best if you want to run 3 mega gargants, although that isn't looking like the optimal build
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1 minute ago, Gareth 🍄 said:
oof, I was hoping for something other than just copy/pasting the ogor rule. It definitely works though.
3 minutes ago, Dankboss said:
Here we go
Definitely looks like the warstomper tribe is the best so far IMO. Mancrushers already have the best rocks, and it allows multiple units to get it. Also this ability actually works on the mancrusher rocks too.
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11 hours ago, Doko said:
The little giants seems ok,not top level but good.
Whats really interesting is the charge damage, its per model, not per unit, so a unit of 3 can put out 3d3 mortal wounds on the charge. The lack of screens will make this tough though since it will be easy for our opponents to control our charges.
10 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:Compare it to a Stardrake. It is way better. The amount of 2 damage attacks is roughly 3 times that of the stardrake. Not counting the other attacks. Stuff em in the bag is similar to cavernous jaws. And these guys have more than double the wounds.
Stardrakes are notoriously not worth their points.
9 hours ago, Sttufe said:On top of that, the Ironclad costs 500 and the only thing it ups them on is transport, more than made up for by twice the wounds. Seems pretty reasonable, and we haven't seen all their abilities or command traits or anything.
The ironclad can deepstrike anywhere and does that kind of damage from range, which is HUGE since it can't be screened nearly as easily.
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Just now, a74xhx said:
What other units in AoS have -3 rend? Struggling to remember of any right now.
Rend -3 is fairly crazy - wipes out the saves for anything 4+ or worse. That's a large chunk of AoS units that have no save against us.
I think one of the KO ship guns can have rend 3, and there's an ironjawz artifact that gives it for one turn I think, as well as the aleguzzler 'eadbutt, but in general its pretty rare, and very limited.
Won't help us vs HGB though 😅 -
12 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:
Well, all of them will outlive a FloSh in direct confrontation. For only 80-90 p more.
True, but 80-90 points isn't a trivial amount. being on a 4+ save certainly isn't doing anything for their bulk.
14 minutes ago, michu said:Dissapointing, but because it's "we did it before knowing allegiance abilities, artefacts, command and battle traits for this army" mathammer.
Comparing warscrolls is relevant, especially with their ability to be allied into other armies. The biggest issue with these guys is the amount of d3 and d6 damage attacks, making them very inconsistent.
3 minutes ago, Dankboss said:Considering that they are Heroes, I'm sure the customization options will be where they really shine. These are just base stats. I bet there's a trait that grants +1 damage on the club etc.
Something to note, when fighting blocks of infantry, the Warstomper will always be making 10 attacks.
Yeah, Monsters count as +4 for the Warstomper too, so he's probably the toughest to bracket. Hopefully the allegiance abilities and customization options can turn it up a notch (and they probably will) but the probable lack of battalions may limit our ability to kit them out.
Hopefully the krakeneater gets something to help him out, as his damage is noticeably lower.
AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
Butcher with balewind and Fleshcrave curse sitting on the pot can put out some serious damage, but I wouldn't take one unless I already had at least 1 slaughtermaster