Ganigumo

I imagine they'll just use the AoS ones when possible, but some of them had bigger glowups. I'm hoping azhag comes back, I missed my chance to get him and that sculpt is really nice. It'd be great if some of the returned kits found their way back into aos too, greenskinz would be nice, but even just the boar boyz would be a cool addition to ironjawz. I'm a little worried about gitmob getting an aos release now though.

I'm not at all shocked we're seeing kits return, I would've been more surprised if they didn't. There's no way they'd do things like Kislev if they had to reinvent the wheel. Some of the fantasy kits that are still around will probably get re-used, hopefully they can do double duty and don't get squatted from AoS.

New spider riders, maybe with a bunch of options or some hangers on like spider swarms We could get a new troggoth or two as the "monsters" of the season like the fomoroid Some armored knight gitz, that we keep getting narrative hooks for and are awesome Some Bonesplitter brutes, maybe with a wereboar or a "bonesplitter gobbapalooza" some extra sneaky kruleboy orruk commandos, or some captured and herded monsters New maneaters for gutbusters, or a small firebelly expansion, maybe with a gorger in tow new hunter for BCR, rocking around with some yhetees and cats.

I did play around with making a list that really leans into spiderfang, and this is what I came up with. Its got a strong focus on board control with tools like scuttletide, shards and shackles. You can do things like casting scuttletide and putting a skitterstrand right behind it to block lanes out in a big way, but you're still lacking heavily in the damage department, and any army with better than average magic can shut down your tools in a big way.

Doing some thinking today and I think I figured out whats wrong with spiderfang. The book disincentivizes you from playing spiders. There are a bunch of little factors contributing to this, but the biggest is a lack of a hammer outside supa nasty venom. The new gitz book is all about buff stacking, and they have less buffs that affect or work well on spiderfang units than our other units. The buffs spiderfang do get are less consistent too. Spiderfang are the only ones that get a damage buff from the moon, and their other buff is a spell, or an artefact that doesnt affect the user. Because of the lack of other hammers you end up needing to dip into something else, but in order to make those pieces do enough work you're gonna need the support, which pulls you away from playing spiderfang. You could look to something like a gargant or kragnos instead, but they miss out on a lot of the value in the army. The book also pushes you to use stuff that can come back from the shrine, squigs, troggs, and moonclan can all get their best stuff, and their hammers back, but spiderfang can't. This is also a big part of what is disincentivizing dankhold troggoths and manglers right now

I did manage to get a game in last night as I'm trying to get unrusty, havent played too much in the past few months, unfortunately my opponent ended up conceding at the bottom of t1 when my 10 bounderz nearly killed his archaon (I think he had 1-2 wounds left?) and he had rolled using archaon's ability so we knew I was getting a double. I was playing this: It felt a bit wierd using stuff as expensive as bounderz and fellwaters as screens, but with Kings Gitz it kind of works (although I had to roll all 4 dice that turn to get anything back). I took the fellwaters hoping to use the vomit, then realized the nonbo with squig stuff since you want to move fast and be aggressive, but the vomit is better as a castle/counterpunch tool. This list would have probably been better served with rockguts, although I'm a bit curious to try out fellwaters with snarlfangs, since you can take the charge then pile in 6". Squig herd didn't seem too insane to me, I threw them into Bloab and they only did like 5 damage total. They were unbuffed though, which is I think where the problem actually lies. We can buff stack units to the moon, specifically squig units, but are we underpaying for that ability? and what should get taxed to correct it? The hopper build might have been killed by the rally change, you can still make them work, but bounderz are still great. Maybe they should take a crack at nerfing Jaws of Mork, since its the subfaction getting the crazy win rates but I'm not sure what they should change it to. Also does anyone have much experience with spiderfang stuff this battletome? I keep looking at them hoping to find some secret sauce but come up with nothing. You really feel the lack of hammers, and they can't stack buffs as well as the moonclan stuff, nor do your units take the buffs as well. I think they have the tools to play a control game between stuff like scuttletide, flingers & ambushing arachnaroks, but you'll need a couple hammers at some point, and outside of nibla's ring once per game our magic isn't very powerful anymore. I'm even a bit skeptical of spider riders as screens now, especially in Kings Gitz, because its so easy to take stuff that costs more but actually has some output or utility since you can just get them back.

The entirety of kragnos feels like an afterthought. I know they said specifically a bunch of the faces were modelled after kragnos but I just don't see it. They remind me more of orruk faces, or the squigskin stuff old greenskinz had on banners and shields sometimes. I think its just something they wrote into the lore to try to fit kragnos into destruction better, not something that was necessarily thought out during the modelling phase. I'm still not convinced he wasn't a BoC model that got repurposed. I'm not sure its Kragnos' fault he doesn't fit into kruleboyz either, he works best in ogors, where you can abuse ogor charge with 3d6 charges, but he still works pretty well in Bonesplitterz and Gitz (Gitz has better stuff at the moment, but he can do work there). I guess Ironjawz don't want him, but thats because he doesn't differentiate himself from a maw-krusha. The worst part is kragnos actually does synergize pretty well with our allegiance abilities, he gives us a source of damage that isn't reliant on 6's and gives us great 3d6 charges which can enable a really strong kruleboyz waaagh! and help our slower units get into combat. Kruleboyz just can't really afford to spend that many points on him, despite the point decreases we keep getting. You could run something like this with him and try to run an alpha list, but since all our melee threats are leaders you can't control the turn order at all. edit: Getting any of our melee threats in the troop slot (Sludgeraker, mirebrute, or vulture), as battleline, would do a lot for the army, especially for any kragnos builds.

This is probably more to encourage unit diversity than anything else. Like if space marine Lieutenant A is better than space marine lieutenant B you just run A all the time, but if A can only go with unit 1, but B can go with unit 2 you might play lieutenant B. in AoS that would work for something like stormcast and khorne, but doesn't make sense for armies that are hero or unit light like warclans.

Hero sniping is a necessary evil imo. There are a ton of super powerful utility heroes that the game just needs to have answers for. The Squigboss is a good example.

Something that could be a neat take on traps would be to have gutrippaz, and maybe boltboyz, be able to forgo moving to set traps, whether that be an allegiance ability or a warscroll one. Maybe with some options for different traps too, like a mortal wound one, or one that makes charging harder. It could maybe even be an extra enhancement table. They can make it work properly in warclans, although I wouldn't oppose a separate tome either. Just feels like the only part of the book that was finished was ironjawz. Bonesplitterz did fine competitively, and technically still have a pretty good winrate, but the good lists are all super skew spam lists because there's a ton of internal balance issues.

Like debuff poisons or something? That would be a cool take.

VEW is just a wierd fit in general for the army IMO. Like I get that its how poison works in AoS, but the army feels like it wants to be johnny-spike, and VeW is anti-spike, since its so inconsistent. instead of just upping their movement KB should get a bunch of movement tricks instead, like being able to be deployed inside terrain, or coming off board edges. The only thing that cares about the differentiation is big Waaagh! which tends to just run 3x5 'ardboyz pretty much exclusively because its the cheapest battleline in the book since it has no battleline unlocks. Also on top of that 'ardboyz are way more buffable if you want to build into them. If Gutrippaz went up to a 4+ save we'd still see 'ardboyz in big waaagh to reduce the battleline taxes. Also our book has orruks in loincloths with shields made of stone and bone with a better save than gutrippaz (5+ save + 6+ ward) who are also generally bad for similar reasons as gutrippaz, but pretty much nobody plays bonesplitterz and the army works without them so you don't see as many complaints.

If they don't get any meaningful warscroll changes, Gutrippaz might need to be as low as 120 points for them to be good. Anytime I listbuild with kruleboyz it never feels like there's enough points and you're constantly scrounging for what you can find, and unless gutrippaz are surviving contact with the enemy and doing something they're basically just hobgrots anyways. I'm curious what the situation would look like if we could get them in 5's though, then they could actually compete with hobgrots a bit.

I think theres a strong argument for a troggoth general to make chasing da moon easier to complete, since with glowy howzit he can be very durable, plus loonskin is a pretty solid command trait. Also I ran the math on MSU bounderz, and was shocked at their output, its actually insane. This doesn't factor in the mortals on the charge and there are a ton of other options available for buffs that you can stack on top. For a 140 point unit this seems nuts to me, the only challenge is keeping a loonboss around to issue all out attack, but there are a few tricks available to help with that. It gets even wilder in Jaws of Mork though, which might be the better build.

Anybody have any experience with Kings Gitz? I've got an event in a couple weeks and I've decided to take my gitz (I'm resisting the urge to bring my KB) but I'm still trying to figure out what want to play. I'm currently eyeing Kings Gitz, but I think it really needs clammy hand to get the most out of it. I was thinking of running a bunch of MSU Bounderz and Fellwaters with it, maybe a fungoid general with chase da moon who can hang out around the shrine all game.

I was listening to Coach's video with Irongutsman and I thought he put it pretty well, something along the lines of: The old book had a pretty steady tempo, and could play the long game, and even win fights despite the bad rules, they just struggled to score points while doing it. The new book fixed the scoring issue, but also buffed the damage hugely to frontload it, so now we've got an army with a strong start that can also play the long game, which makes it very tough to deal with.

The best allies for us in my opinion are Skragrott, and cheap fast screens. Skragrott is just fantastic value, +1 double caster, good warscroll spell, and can issue a command for free every turn. For screens stuff like spider riders or snarlfangs are good. Snarlfangs have a bit more utility and damage, but spider riders are cheaper, most of the army is really slow so having a fast unit to rush onto objectives or alpha screen is nice. The reason Rippa is showing up less now is because he's now 110 points, up from 70, which means spider riders are cheaper now. I could see making an aleguzzler or some rockguts work too.

I don't think we have enough to make it matter maybe? The armies/units that are good at it can usually grab multiple models. In the sloggoths case its probably just tough to fit into lists, even with the point decreases it never feels like you're bringing a lot. Sloggoth isnt a bad scroll either, it just doesn't fit the army. It sees play in gitz, and would probably see play in ironjawz, bonesplitterz & ogors if you could take it in them.

The only things to avoid for casual play is the sloggoth. Sloggoth could work in a monster heavy build I guess but doesn't synergize well with the army. Ballista is a bit sketchy but can do work vs gargants and screen in a pinch. I highly recommend both the sludgeraker and vulture (any builds). Sludgeraker is a great hammer, and the vultures are great utility pieces.

GHBs are generally 6ish months before, but have a much faster release process for obvious reasons. I remember around the release of aos 3 based on what they said the rules were written roughly 1.5 years before during the 5 minutes when hordes were the meta before the priority wars and shooting dominance, and 1e buff conga lines still existed. Which had a pretty obvious effect on the rules with stuff like new coherency and reinforcement points being messy and targetted nerfs to big units that had fallen out of the meta anyways.

Toying with something a bit different, the classic KB castle often struggles to do much if given the first turn and struggles to fit into battle reg so I wanted to try building something that could apply pressure from the start. Allegiance: Kruleboyz- Warclan: Big Yellers- Grand Strategy: Waaagh!- Triumphs: InspiredLeadersSkragrott, The Loonking (160)*- AlliesGobsprakk, The Mouth of Mork (260)Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (220)*- General- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky- Artefact: Vial of Manticore Venom (Universal Artefact)- Mount Trait: Fast 'UnSnatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (290)Murknob with Belcha-banna (80)*- Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the AlphaSwampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (100)- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex- Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel MasterBattleline6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)**- Reinforced x 16 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)**- Reinforced x 13 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)**Units10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)Endless Spells & InvocationsRavenak's Gnashing Jaws (70)Core Battalions*Warlord**Galletian SharpshootersAdditional EnhancementsAspect of the ChampionTotal: 1940 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 160 / 400Wounds: 110Drops: 11 Its very greedy, but if you need to sneaky miasma + fast 'un can throw your two vultures up the board, supa sneaky can deploy the sludgeraker and you can go for a turn 1 alpha. Hopefully skragrott and ravenak's, alongside disappearin' act can threaten screens to open up your opponents army. Think this style of list has any chance of success? Has anyone tried something similar?

You can rally up to 10 wounds of models per command issued. As an example: If your unit of 20 stabbas was down to 1 model, and you rallied them, and rolled 15 successes, you could bring back 10 models, bringing you up to 11 stabbas in the unit. You could then rally again in the next hero phase, and roll 9 dice to try to bring back more.

Fyreslayers were never that low, not even gitz got that low. Fyreslayers were 48% winrate before the book, 41% after the book with OBR, Slaanesh, Gitz and Kruleboyz sitting below them. They were 48% during the last ghb (pretty safely in the middle), where Bounty Hunters were a huge threat to them, and now they're 50% (all based on THWG's stats). Kruleboyz always have been, and continue to be, the worst book of the edition, and the stats back it up.

Seraphon is mostly a mix of the repeated nerfs and competitive players just moving on until the new book comes out.

The rally change, while not directed specifically at them, probably hits them hardest? It specifically hurts rallying low quality wounds. I did forget about how hard dragons got hit though. The 30 hopper build is probably dead because of it, and I dont think grots were overperforming. I guess DoK are hurt but they were generally rallying snakes weren't they? And rallying 5 of those still feels great. There's KO too, but they're in a similar situation to DoK. I know they're in a bit of a bind with rally but I'm not sure if this was the right way to go about it.