LuminethMage

Yup, but if you only count the feelings of the current player base (which you'd first would have to judge correctly, and not by the loudest voices), and just take everything that said about "NPE" at face value, you might be lead to the wrong conclusion. That's what I meant. If someone really doesn't like playing Lumineth because they aren't fun for them, ok, that's their choice. Someone else might not find playing against Giants fun. Or DoK, or KO, or Seraphon, etc. Alternatively you could try to work things out together. Especially with the new units LRL players can build more varied lists. If someone leaves the game because they don't like playing against one faction - that'd be weird. On the other hand, it's more likely that someone won't get interested in a game if they don't find an army that offers the playstyle they like. I don't think it's that huge of an issue if there is one army like that among - what 24 - now. It's a social game. My fun comes out of playing together, weird dice rolls, stupid things I do, great things I do, unexpected things my opponent does etc. It's not only tied what I think about my opponents rules. There is so much more to the game than that.

Looking at all the "future insights" - the rules seem to be fitting with the lore of the units, which is great. The LRL also again get some fun, interesting abilities, and add a whole new dimension to our arsenal - speed. If you aren't super competitive, I think you'll have a lot of options to play. For competitive players, we'll have to see. They also did some unexpected things like adding more to the Tyrionic side of the lore and rules, which is awesome. For the rest - I agree, there might be some OP or bad stuff in there which will be changed eventually. I'm with many here - the only unit I'm a bit disappointed if the insights are true, are the Bladelords, because they'd have weird fluff (Sunmetal blades, but no Sunmetal, Vanari but can't cast), and aren't at all what I expected (glass cannon). They'd fit with their description though, and are also at least good. As bodyguards for your Scinari, they could easily be ok and fun too. All in all, really exciting for us!

When the Lumineth came out first - TGA had an interview podcast with play testers, and they liked playing with and against the Lumineth. My opponents haven't complained either - but to be fair I haven't had that many in-person games so far. So it's a very limited sample size. Like Athrawes said, a lot of this seems overblown. I don't mean yourself, but there are many people who just don't like elves, don't understand how an actual Lumineth list looks like, or have ulterior motives when complaining about "NPE". And NPE is such a fuzzy concept, which also has a lot to do how someone general feels towards an army or a certain playstyle. For example, I have problems when certain DoK players complain so much about LRL ignoring game rules (Morathi?) or interactivity (priests?). Another example - your case - and I don't mean you aren't right, if you don't like something, you don't like it, that's fine. But generally speaking "reducing the effect an opponent can have" is something that most armies have in some form or another. It's also something that if you can overcome it, will contribute to your own fun. On top if it, it can be fun for the player to have such abilities, and it contributes to having all kind of play styles and player types in the game, which are good things. "Control"-like armies/characters, relying on debuffing your opponent are a staple in strategic, fantasy, RPG games. So in my view, it's good to have one or two armies in the game who can do that (although you can disagree with that of course). The same is true for magic heavy, or shooting armies. Not everyone likes going up against those, but they contribute to the overall variety and health of the game in my view. Of course that doesn't mean, they shouldn't change some of the abilities if they are too powerful or limiting, but all the complaining about NPE seems a bit much to me. AoS started as a game with many melee focused armies. Shooting and magic were just "flavor" for the most part. The more the game grows, the more they need to offer different play styles, which will bring in new players, but this naturally will also annoy some of the older players who basically don't want the game to change, or get back to the old game (or just players who don't like certain play styles). Which is fine. But that doesn't mean that the game got objectively worse, or armies that work differently are objectively "NPE" and have to be changed. For you the Cathallar might feel unfair (an ability once per turn on one unit on a 5 W, 5+ save hero no less). For me it could be a Mawcrusher, Witch Aelves, a KO boat, or any other thing. I think most of those issues can be solved easily in non-tournament settings. You can always talk to your opponent, but also accept that not every faction and game must be fun for both sides equally all the time, if we want a big variety of playstyles in the game. And in a competitive tournament setting NPE shouldn't play a big role anyway. I and my opponents had fun games so far with LRL, but apparently not everyone does. I just don't think it's that big of a deal, and also unavoidable in a game that's not all about you and what you want.

Yeah, better stay away for a while from most of the forum I guess.... if those are all true. That’s surprising, yeah, but you might get your yellow scheme : )

I though that the scenery can also move. Now it makes sense, thank you : ). Also having read lisencetokill’s post above.

The Sanctum isn’t static either though, or do I miss something there?

Yeah they have done some great work with the photos! Can’t wait to cruise around the battlefield on this gem of a model. #relaxed

Oh man, it really seems to move. 😍 How to stylishly float around the battlefield

Yeah it’s really a problem that they chose Ymetrica, although they made such a close connection between Ymetrica and the Alarith. Any other faction would have been better. Already a small problem with Myari. Any other faction would have been at least a bit useful. This problem will become bigger if they don’t change it. Most of the named heroes are bound to end up with the Ymetrica keyword.

After I joined this site I was honestly also surprised about how many people seem to harbor negative feelings about elves (or are just trolling, not sure). I’m honestly baffled by this, sure, I like Lumineth the most, but there isn’t any fantasy faction I really dislike, no-interest is as far as it goes. During the first reveal when we had a similar situation, I argued a lot, but nothing good comes out of that, and you only work yourself up. From what I see, none of us enjoys looking like they are always bitching around or being defensive. So I try to avoid doing that (don’t succeed always though). On the other hand, if we just always let it go, it can lead to situations that things like @l1censetochill and others have mentioned happen, where someone has heard so many negative things about LRL before they even have played against them, that they are pre-deposed to feel like everything is either OP or even worse, NPE (because you can’t really argue with the latter). But, I doubt we can really do anything about it, so waiting this out at places like this part of the forum is probably good, we are only a maybe a week away before the show moves on. And, even in the main forum, it looks like some people have overdone it, it looks to me, we are getting more support from neutral people. So it’s not all bad : ). Like @Ragest I do wonder what’s the point behind not providing full Warscrolls for the units they feature in these write ups. They are free anyway, and you couldn’t as easily have misleading expectations (either positive or negative). 🤷‍♂️ On topic, I’m also getting at least 2 boxes of these because they are such good looking models. 😍 And I like the abilities from a fluff point of view, they are really thematic. Let’s hope they either get a few more abilities by themselves or have good synergy with some of the new heroes. I’d be a shame if such a good looking and nostalgic unit would only be playable in non-competitive games. But sadly that happens to many factions (hello Slaangor).

Maybe some guarding abilities for mages, as they have pointed that out several times now. I thought re-rolling saves against missiles, but with the anti-magic, not sure about that anymore. Maybe being able to stay in shining while running and charging? Otherwise, maybe something that increases their damage temporarily. A Warscroll spell? But it could also be just that. Sunmetal weapons, spells and the Vanari abilities. Because they have Sunmetal Greatswords, maybe those deal mortals on a 5+, 4 if you cast the spell?

They should, otherwise all the talk about guarding Scianri seems unnecessary. They might also do more damage on the charge etc. I wouldn’t get worked up just yet : )

Yes, I’ll get 10 probably, just for the looks and fun. I like the flavor of the abilities and they should still be good in normal games. Let’s see. I think there will be a bit more.

Yeah, they might have Power of Hysh but it would only work for the flurry attack, because no hit rolls for the auto-one (hence maybe the -2). It’s not the full scroll. Range 2 is good, but at the moment they might struggle to be taken over Warden or other options. Again very flavorful abilities though.

They probably will have additional rules. Let’s see how the full Warscroll looks like, they don’t look OP right now : ).

Which is funny, because that means in the end the Lumineth are a great PPE for your opponent - if they win against such an OP army, it was of course because of their superior skill, and if they lose, well, how could you win against such odds? : )

No, I don’t think they are bad - but they might cost 200 points and then they wouldn’t be a competitive option (also very unlikely : ) ). I just meant, even if they weren’t, they still look like fun. 👌

It doesn’t.

The abilities they mention seems to be taken from the generic Alligiance Abilities - Hurakan section. Battle trait and artefact. And one spell from the new spell lore. The Nation ability would say something like “does x to your Move Like The Wind trait”. But, I also increased my plan of buying 1 x Windchargers to 2. : ). The Hurakan seem like real fun. Even if they won’t be the most competitive choice in the end. They really bring the lore on the table with the Lumineth. So far they have done an excellent job with that.

Yeah those look pretty awesome. That’s some really interesting stuff going on. Wow. And we get healing ... .

Yes, I’ve seen some people doing that, for example Phil Kelly. I don’t exactly how though, as I didn’t do it myself.

I see, sounds great. You are right, those make for a nice base to built something special out of, for AoS and/or maybe also a cool Warcry warband.

That’s a bit murky because technically only the Talisman of Hoeth gave him the ability to cast spells. They changed his lore several times, so he might actually have been a mage too at some point, but at least in the later editions it’s the Talisman which made him a Wizard, as far as I know. I’d love him to be able to cast though. Because he always was able to do it, he feels a bit incomplete without it. But yeah - probably balance is the actual reason why he can’t.

Great! Goood job on the white robe! And the red Aetherquartz makes for nice accents. Also like the color of your gold. 😍

@Beliman Agreed the design of the Lumineth is quite smart, you have your core of new HE, and can stick to that if you want to, add various flavors via likely in the end 4 temples, or just stick to the weird stuff entirely. How would a different chartered company look like? Are there any hints in the lore? Scianri Calligrave is my personal favorite of the whole range - great background lore, I like the model and I love both calligraphy and magic : ) . The abilities also could be fun.