Phasteon

New RAW it would be -2 (to cancel out +1) but no more than -1 in total.

Finally Skywardens become interesting, even outside of Barak Zon. 6 Skywardens hooking on alphastriking Zilfin Ironclad turn 1 can do some pretty good damage with all out attack. 12 shots at 3+/3+ followed by 13 attacks at 3+/3+ is enough to kill something off an objective while also distracting the enemy from our more important stuff. Also, I dont know who talked about nerfs, I see new triumph as a huge buff! I always used my triumphs for reroll saves to survive the enemies counterpunch, now that I have unleash hell, all out defense I can gladly take +1 to wound !

Duardin in 2022: Grungni 3x 10 Arkanauts 1x 20 Hearthguard Berzerkers 1x Ironclad

Hermdar problems are not my concern, anything making them less of an autotake gets my approval 😉

Looking at the last preview about CP, heroic actions and monster changes I feel very excited for Fyreslayers! Imo we were always CP starving, so being able to use more CAs will be huge (looking at +1 to wound aura from son) Also Heroic Actions, protecting Battlesmith by +1 save first turn or healing him back up every hero phase comes in handy as well. Also Bael-Grimnir with +1 to wound/save is an outright beast for his points. Also roar sounds op! e.g. shutting down Mortek Guards reroll saves? Yes pls! Also its looking as if Unique Heroes always count as general, so you probably can pick Bael Grimnir, get HGB as battleline and still make a runesmiter (or was it runelord?) general for Auric Hearthguard Battleline AND run + charge trait! Sounds so good! Also, with Monsters probably being more impactful in 3.0 Aurics shots will more often hit for 2 Damage! Good stuff so far, especially if youre going Vostarg!

Tbh, nobody can tell you whats worth buying atm. I had 10 Judicators randomly flying around from years ago, so I start my new collection with them as they are battleline and probably get a support hero. Otherwise I‘m holding myself back from buying anything until Dominion drops and after that I wait for the Battletome and then plan a 2,5k army that I‘ll buy. As for now, its 100% gambling as nobody yet knows if older Scrolls get revamped or even become/stay viable compared to the new goodness. Lord Relictor & Lord Castellant will probably still be worth it in the future.

Someone scouted the Annihilators Warscroll and it looked like 3 Attacks 3+/3+/-1/2 which is basically Retributors with +1 attack. With a 2+ Save. Thats bar any special rules they will undeniably have. They either need to make Annihilators very points heavy and/or other Paladins cheapter otherwise or increase the other Paladins output by a lot. Imo Retributors need like 4 Attacks base with their current warscroll to be viable for 190 per 5. Decimators should have like their 2“ ability but with 2 Damage, minimum 2 attacks. Protectors 5 Attacks base, maybe rend 2. But to be honest, as it stands now, they are outdated by Evocators so hard its not even funny. Paladins were: Retributors - the generalists Decimators - anti horde Protectors - anti shooting / monster and Evocators - better against everything and wizards for like 30 points. Make Paladins great again!

And I‘m just sitting here like a Lord-Impatient waiting for all the new goodness to arrive ... Really hope for some good synergies between all the stuff. In a perfect world the new battletome makes me wanna buy some Liberators again, but I also quite happily just play the new stuff if its enough and it‘ll get the job done.

Great Reveal though, I‘m completely hyped! The Models are next level again, the videos were nicely done and the „8 things“ tackled some really great changes. Can‘t wait to get my hand on the dominion box. So eager to restart my SCE collection (which I sold off 2 years ago) But new = better am I right? 😉

Sure, if you dont care about depth of a game AoS 1.0 was the best version of the game. I enjoyed that as well, but I like rules that allow tactical decisions to win the game. Thats what I define as competitive. Make strategy great again, nerf the supremacy of „the better list“ 👍🏻

I think its better that those rules exist and people forget them / dont know how to correctly use them than to not have more options at all. Gives players like me (competitive mindset) more ways of playing better than my opponent. More rules = more outplay opportunities = more fun because you can be more creative about your tactic than just shove models up the board and roll dice

Except he also got a decent close combat profile, 4+ wound shrug, 2 casts at +1 which makes him the best Sylvaneth caster and a spell that can deal more damage than kroak - and he actually can stand atop of a balewind vortex. All in all he is a pretty solid Hero and I‘d definately include him in a Sylvaneth army. That being said, the song IS kinda lame, would have been much cooler if you got to choose between different effects. I get why you call the design lazy tho, but its not a bad Warscroll.

I dont know about BR, there were so many other factions involved in each of those books and to be fair, in the end there is also almost always a big chunk of chaos involved so your point is again moot. I stopped caring about tournament statistics / tier lists too much because the longer you search the more different lists you find. And those statistics often just show which results the top 0,5% of players achieve - tournament statistics differs from regular/casual/local meta games strongly anyway. „They have the most gods“ Ahem Chaos wants to talk to you? And the last part was just annoying tbh, I dont care what your perception in that regard is, but Stormcast Eternals are literally getting the same treatment as Space Marines in 40k so its a justified comparison. Every other opinion just lacks objective criteria.

Where did you get that impression? I mean Stormcast Eternals are quite obviously the Primaris of AoS, even getting a new model range with the new edition. Yes, Aelves have some of the better rules in AoS, be it DoK, IDK or LRL (except Sylvaneth aka Woodelves, they are doomed - jk) but why does that make them appear to be GWs lovechild? Chaos, Death, Destruction and even other Order armies have the same amount of strong rulesets, hell in our gaming group nobody wants to face duardin of any type as Fyreslayers and KO are dominating almost every game. Still nobody talks about dwarven supremacy, which I get because duardin are awesome and everyone likes them, unlike those annoying long ears. But still, I can‘t share the opinion that aelves are getting the best of the best and the most attention while other armies are left behind. Even Skaven got a bonkers battletome and they are literally cowardly rats. I‘d 100% say that there are armies that fell behind powerwise, but those are few exceptions to an otherwise solid range of armies. And even when playing those „bad armies“ you still have every chance to win a game with the right list against the right match up. Those matches are just not gonna happen publicly and are not documented because most hyper competitive players dont play those armies. I‘ve seen literally every army out there win/lose games.

Why does every discussion in this forum lately evolve into a „GW is bad/evil and wants to steal our money and they hate my army“-type of thread? 🤔 Are people just generally anti-GW/toxic/frustrated because they dont have a grip on their game or do I just dont see the „evil truth“ ? As far as I‘m concerned GW is pretty good at giving the people what they want which ultimately leads to increased sales. Be it the new „high elves“ people cried for years about, More balanced rules (AoS 2.0 and the battleplans did a lot to achieve that and we are getting a new edition soon) More and quicker information before releases and whatnot. I‘ve never felt so involved in the hobby and the designprocesses as I am now and still there are so many people hating on GW and the game (funnily enough still playing it LOL) When you ask for constructive criticism you get 4-5 rational posts and then BOOM - complete escalation as the GW bashers chime in and recite their litanies of eternal hate to open our eyes on why we should stop liking GW/AoS as its so bad. Kind of tiresome. Edit: And before people call me a „Fanboy“ 1. Yes I proudly am and rightfully so as the hobby is probably one of the best parts of my life. 2. I absolutely acknowledge that AoS has some flaws (as all games have), BUT they are not half as bad as people make them look like and compared to other games I play its much more enjoyable.

Well, its hard to argue against that, as some of the LRL rules are literally gamebreaking (e.g. the pile in-restriction of the Hurakan so that they are untouchable for range 1“ melee or the LOS ignoring Mw shooting, or autocasting with such high casting values) but on the other hand I wouldnt call other armies rules „uninspired“ as I think it doesnt do the designers work justice. I have not read a single battletome where I thought to myself „wow thats boring“, for me every army has some unique traits and/or abilities - some just dont seem to be that impactful and I think thats something GW needs to adress. For example Nighthaunt. Their deepstrike / fight ability is potentially more gamebreaking than the LRL activate two units, but its just such a rare case. Make it unmodified 9+ after deepstrike and there you go. Every unit that just appeared and charged gets to fight. Same with the bravery. Make it stack to -3 or even -6 and/or make it so that units within certain models cant use abilities that lets them ignore battleshock (that sounds borderline broken but tbh I just want it to happen, make - bravery stacking actually scary) The rules are there, they are more often than not just not impactful enough whereas shooting without LOS or activating 2 units at a time will very often come to play. BUT then again, most of the time its units like Cathallar or Archers in shining company that are picked to fight, so you can really only capitalize on that ability on the offense where LRL struggle imo. So its actually a moot point. The Ironjawz got a somewhat similar, even stronger rule and I never perceived them being regarded as OP while also having things like D6 move after taking damage, double move for CP and things like +3 charge with 3D6 on buffed Ardboyz. What exactly are those armies with uninspired rules and why? I‘ve read Soulblight - but why are their rules regarded as unfun/ bad ? I think they look fun. I‘ve read black knights multiple times, whats wrong with them for example? I‘m really curious on this because if its an objective point people make and not just blowing steam, there are certainly points to back it up.

I just want to add the following to the discussion. Many tomes with those „toned down“ rules are tailored with the new edition in mind, so I think they will feel different when the edition is launched. 2 prime examples are KO and Gravelords. If you look at the Arkanaut Admiral warscroll and the Wight King warscroll you will find generic CAs which looks like a bad joke now, but those CAs wont probably stick around which means that those warscrolls get better in the new edition. Generally speaking the game seems little less deadly than before, while elites and monsters are suddenly getting bigger offensive numbers - probably to fix the „unbeatable hordes“ problem. We also dont know how shooting will work next edition and if the op LRL „I kill all Heroes in one round“-shtick will still be carried over. All in all those are just some assumptions, but there is enough evidence between the lines and I think the designers know what they are doing. I think the Gravelords tome is exciting in its „toned down“-ness but still offers interesting, yet not gamebreaking, choices.

Also it would just make that bodyguard battalion the new „must take“

Love those new Paladins! 2+ Save and still hitting like a truck is exactly what SCE elites should do. Hope the existing units get that treatment as well.

Short story about that. I just had a game the other day with my KO Zilfin „broken op“ tournament list against a Hammers of Sigmar - SCE list of a friend, preparing for our next season of gaming group campaign. It was a classic „autowin“ scenario like many people here said, but many above average dice rolls later the WHOLE GAME came down to a single roll off. I bet I made some mistakes out of frustration at some point and he for sure made some too, let alone his deployment (but he saved 8/10 4+ and 5/10 5+ Saves, so it didnt backfire as hard as it could have been). But the most important thing: We had a blast playing it. My „frustration“ came from „why are the dice so evil“ and not from a „what a bad balanced game it is“ perspective. What a want to say is, even him playing whats probably not the strongest list out there against a pretty top tier list - he still had a realistic chance of winning. And still I‘m here discussing how terrible the balance is and how dommed whole armies are.

Thats just not true. There are for sure units I‘d never take and I don‘t know how to utilize, BUT even when you don‘t build around them you can take them as gimmick / objective holder in an otherwise functioning list and win. Best example: All the Warhammer Underworlds Warbands. Spending ~150 points on them does not make you autolose. Same as playing army X does not make you autowin / autolose. Your description of the state of the game is incredibly black and white, anti GW and straight up toxic to a point where if I had no clue and you were the only source of opinion I had I‘d pass on a fantastic and super fun game. I‘d advise you to stop playing AoS if you even do, as you clearly seem to just dislike it.

Edit: Srsly, you are not worth the attention. To your last paragraph though, thats exactly how 90% (Ha! gotcha, call me out on those „unproven 90%“ again now?) of games go.

Why? Why don’t you understand people that just want to enjoy the game and not discuss about balance? In this thread its 100% legit to discuss balance and if I don’t like it I am free to ignore this thread. But coming from someone that worked at a GW store for some time: When every game results in a balance discussion because some1 cant take the loss its getting really annoying. 90% of the time balance is NOT the issue - its just people blaming mistakes (gameplay or listbuilding wise) on the general balance. EDIT: @Battlefury iirc your BoK list was pretty MSU style and featured many different units? What about 20 Blood Warriors in the ignore -1 rend battalion to hold objectives, or 5-6x 10 Reavers to generate lots of blood tithe to get a BT of insensate rage - tripple BT + Skarbrand in the fight first battalion? I faced every possible BoK list and so many of them were very scary and if I made one bad move or lost one crucial initiative roll off it would have been gg. But your list looked nothing like it.

I play both Runefather + Smiter on Droth because they can keep up with my deepstriking HGB to grant them 2x fight. Reason behind this is with Vostarg they have an 8“ charge first turn so most likely get to combat where I want AND cant be alphastriked or targeted by shutdown abilities as they dont start on the board. Also Ritual of Awakening is HUGE defense against first doubleturn because most alphastrike armies tend to give first turn to the enemy to utilize potential doubleturn. you then just use the Ritual for another layer of +1 Save and pretty much nothings ng dies except to MWs. If the enemy takes the first turn to kill your droths you then have the potential doubleturn and can utilize the deepstriking HGB to counter. Very strong tactic, 100% winrate so far.

Hope you still get a way of getting multiple artifacts/CP no matter if battalions stay or not.