Ser_namron

i think its definitely undercosted for what it does, and what it does is pretty crazy. 36" range +4" from movement. So already the longest threat range in the game from artillery. 3 attacks at 2/3 - the best base profile for hit/wound from all artillery ( might need to double check that, but none of the empire or SCE have those numbers, closest is ballistar with 3/3) no rend but 5 base dmg per attack. Youve got a GREAT chance ( i dont have the math ) of making all 3 of those shots. Thats pretty dang reliable damage into the right units, and even the armored ones only have to whiff once to take a massive wound, and their are plenty of 5 wound heroes with no FNP. 12 wounds to boot ( that can be healed by the army but im not taking army effects into account). PLus its other 2 abilities that can outright kill a hero with 9 wounds right off the bat, or one with even higher wounds if it gets damaged. The thing is REALLY good for 200 points with nothing else helping it. Other artillery really needs to have other units buffing it or activating its abilities, this thing just wrecks face by being there. Having to spend a artifact or general trait to better my chances at surviving 1 unit from 1 army is pretty unrealistic. In a 1v1 matchup like this where i know what he has i could see taking it .But as far as competitive play goes, your not gonna kit your allcomers list with those things. im a bit of a pessimist though, so we will have to wait and see how the meta handles it, but on paper, Crawlers are fantastic for their cost. Thanks, figured id throw my experience out for this new army im sure most of us will be seeing a bit of. Hopefully didnt come off to crossed about the crawlers, ive been on the hate train for those things since the preview lol.

he hasn't built his crawlers yet because he knows none of us will want to play with him anymore once he does lol. Our playgroup is very casual and doesn't mind bringing powerful stuff or meta lists, but those crawlers are just something else, and he wants to actually have people to play his new army against lol. And he will def build them and we will play them, and we will learn to live with them...but we all know that thing is straight up busted so noones in a rush to face it. So we decided to play with realm rules. Rolled Ulgu, had our spells/ranged capped to 12" . Battleplan was....idr its name lol. It was similar to knife to the heart but the one thats only 9" from the center of your side. I threw my original plan for the plaguemonks in the trash, and used the ulgu realm command ability to teleport to different table edges with them because that was more fun. Tried to get on their flanks. Which i did, i had 2 40x blobs ready to crash into his side. But then he buffed a unit of Mortek gaurd with the whole arsenal of exploding 5s, FNP 5+, reroll shields. All the good stuff. And we deicided to see if a unit of plaguemonks on the charge could kill that fully buffed unit. I 100% could have avoided it, or put them anywhere else ont he board ( like the other flank with non buffed mortek) but we figured this would be a fun showcase of both units potential. The answer was no lol. all 40 got into range, i rolled all my attacks, had 27 go through with -1 rend, a handful of those turned into 2 dmg. and then about 90 actual wounds went through with a handful of 2 dmg. He lost 9 mortek. ( he didnt have a harvester near this unit, so big ol lulz this wasnt even them at their tankiest) . On the swing back he took 13 monks, and battleshock took 7 more ( moved them completely out of range of my bells reach lol.) next battle round the monks killed like 4 or 5 of them somehow ( had half the attacks) and he took out another 12, and the rest failed battleshock and fled. So the mortek had soem decent offense, but really nothing to crazy, Monks die to a stiff breeze anyways. I think i got 2 mortals through with their on death ability, but he shrugged both those off with a 6+/5+ Then i charged another full unit into a liege kavalos, got like 4 wounds through lol. But then he rolled like GARBAGE, and killed 2 rats. So that was just a real sad showing on both parts lol. Thanqoul toasted some mortek gaurd with his 4x warpthrowers, they retreated and the stalkers came up, made a charge into my clanrat bubble and got into range for combat with thanqoul. but he forgot i could scurry away with my leaders, so he activated elsewhere and Thanqoul moved away from the stalkers. Then i got initiative, and had 4 warpthrowers weapons teams and thanqoul with 4 warpthrowers unload into the stalkers, killed 4/6. Then he took those 2 stalkers ( buffed to -4/ 3 damage lol) charged into my 20 blob protecting my point, moved his mortek that had been damaged ( but were now close to fully healed with the harvester nearby) and won the point and ended the game. It was a pretty fun match, we both got to roll a ****** ton of dice. It was a good initial match against a new army, now i have a better understanding of what needs to go. Plaguemonks are great, but with no rend trying to get damage through on a 3/3/6/5 ( with another 4+ if a harvesters near) is just not going to happen. I charged into the most buffed unit he had though, in the name of science. Also the healing on large units is really frustrating. i had 9 mortals go through into his harvester with the first WLV i got off, and by the start of his next turn he had full health again. This is hands down the hardest to kill army in the game. When i fight them next time ill be bringing all the warp power. Jezzails will go for the harvester or the soul mason, warp lightning cannons will go for the harvester or the stalkers. Doomwheels could probably get some good damage into non buffed units. Stormfiends usually disappoint me, but im sure they can get some good shots in. The warp teams and thanqoul probably had their best performance out of any games ive played with them though, so that was cool. Good match, tough army, needs MORE MORE MORE WARPPOWER for next time.

Playing my buddies OBR army tonight. I was gonna make a real shooty list, but ills ave that for later games. I instead built a list that should make for a really fun game where he can show off some new toys and i can go full Skaventide. With tides of Skaven >:D Thanqoul Grey seer on bell death frenzy/ master of magic/suspicious stone Clan rats x20- 3x 5 warpfire throwers 40 plague monks 40 plague monks WLV 1990/2000 The plan is to walk up to his face, melt some bone people with warpflames, and absorb the losses with my dead rats numbers. I'll have the plague monks on the flanks ( TBH ive never run them so im not sure where i should position them since i want that charge to get off), and the bell behind keeping everything BS immune. Hopefully get a WLV off. is it the best list? No. Will the dice be rolled tonight in mass. ****** ya. Edit* maybe ill keep the monks behind the clan rats so when they all die in CC i can counter charge? Whats the normal strat for plaguemonks??

Ya i think terrain needs to be costed as well, or they need to keep the power levels toned down. Gnawholes and bone tithe nexus and sylvaneth forests are the ones that stick out to me. The forest is pretty important to the armies gimmicks though, so that one may be harder to balance without taking away from the tome. Bone tithe nexus has what, 5 options? all are viable, and the size/range on them is never really going to be an issue as the one setting it down. Compare that to older terrain like the deepkin ships, or the fyreslayers forge and its just laughably overpowered compared to those. I dont think its winning any games on its own ( allthough the option to slow down a unit is pretty insane) but when you get it FOR FREE, in every OBR list you run....thats just way too good for something that cost you nothing but actual money. Its the saem for Gnawholes, they are so much bang for your buck when it costs 0 points. I like seeing terrain on the field, but if GW is going to powercreep terrain just to sell kits than i would rather not have any, or have them costed as needed. ** rereading the thread, i missed liek2 pages of discussion, but it had ntohing to do with my comment anyways sooooo, carry on **

Is the bone tithe nexus the best terrain feature we've seen? Tablewide drop, every option is great, and its massive. Everytime i see it i just think "huh, really? you get that for free?"

Hell, i use old fantasy dwarf slayer models for my Vulkite proxies. It does really depend on your opponents, but as long as you arent playing with ****** it should be fine. I mean, its not like the fyreslayers have huge differences in models, its almost entirely just weapon load-outs. The main thing is being able to tell them apart on the tabletop, it'd be unfair for your opponent to not be able to tell which unit is which. So maybe different color schemes so you can differentiate and just let your opponent know what you have. Tournament play has to be actual WYSIWYG models usually, which is kinda ****** too IMO, especially armies like this.

it says 24" on the profile, where the extra 6" coming from? Derp the 6" of the actual attack radius.

Wait i can cast runic empowerment twice in one turn? Or you're just saying i have 2 people that can cast it in general. But ya i only brought 1 runesmiter because the battalion doesnt have one and i want that runelord in their for the dispell attempt, otherwise endless spells will just run train on me if i cant unbind them with the ash cloud rune. But with the runelord/smiter/master i do have 3 prayers so thats nice ( didnt realize runelord could take a prayer which is dope). Oooh that i didnt know, i will have to pay attention to that in the future. the comet is a ****** at 36" and a 10" radius of initial damage, but these Auric hearthgaurd are seeming more and more clutch to me lol. I usually run polearms because i face alot of SCE and and Nighthaunt so rend doesnt really do as much and mortals can be really clutch. But i was talking to my friend earlier about making the 10 blob into 2h axe for more reliable damage. I can just try to avoid things that arent as susceptible to rend with them. I actually brought the same list i used against the SCE to a game against beasts of chaos last night and won pretty handily in knife to the heart. The 10 blob of berzerkers took care of a unit of 30 ungors pretty easily, but i messed up the battalion rule and had them attack twice when the blob of 30 are the battalion unit. But i was surprised at how nasty even a unit of 5 with poleaxes can get. A couple of 6s and those mortals explode. Thanks for all the input, im starting to think i wrote this army off as way too simple but its actually got some real strategy in there. The only other real question i have is, what are the usual tactics for the ur gold runes at the start of a turn? any shenanigans i should know of lol?

Thanks for the input, those changes sound interesting. I didnt see the auric hearthgaurds ability to soak wounds, thats super helpful. Ive never really used them before, but oddly enough i have 10 i use as HGB proxys. I kinda liked the magmadroth just because he puts the wounds on the smiter high enough to survive, and i really want that re roll wound. but if i can have some hearthgaurd soaking wounds for my HQ that might not matter. Still, thats banking alot on 4+ to save my heroes, but i guess thats better than nothing on tablewide no line of sight required nonsense :P. Who would you take with the runesmiter underground, the 5 or 10 blob?

So, i played against SCE last night. They blew out my entire HQ first turn with everblaze comet, rain of stars, and the primes meteor. Literally didnt have a chance to do anything. Obviously the only counter to that would have been to deploy more spread out, but everything in the army is wholly within 12" for buffs, so what am i supposed to do to counter that? Table wide reach on 1/d3/3+3 mortal wounds + the comet which is guaranteed damage ( 2 ticks if its cast the 2nd round since it activates on start of next battleround) is almost a guaranteed kill of my leaders. No matter what he can kill my runefather general it seems, which would completely gimp the army either way since i was playing a Hermdar list where the entire focus is to have the runefather next to my 30 blob of HGB to just activate first and wreck face. I guess im looking to see how people deploy this army to avoid ****** like that. Also, table wide reach in this game is such utter ******. spent all day getting hyped on the list i made, only to see it get wrecked because the opponent brought 1000 pts of models that can just autokill stuff on the table from wherever they stand. And thats not even accounting for the rest of the shooting he had in the army with desolaters . The balance in this game is so frustrating at times. GG GW. Lodge- Hermdar 50 pts- extra command point Runefather- Tyrant slayer/Warrior indomitable / -General Rune master- prayer of ash Battlesmith x 2 Rune smiter on magmadroth- ash cloud rune/ searing heat Runesmith- Prayer that lets you run and charge 30 HGB 10 HGB 5 HGB Lords of the lodge 2000/2000

I....uhhhhhh.........totally knew that..... Rofl i havent played them in months! I didnt realize >.<

I havent played FS is a hot minute, but i busted them out this weekend and wanted to have a look at what lists i should run. Lodge- Hermdar Auric runefather- general- warrior indominate/ tyrant slayer ( hermdar tax) - 100 pts Runemaster- Ash cloud rune (battalion artifact)/ prayer of ash- 120 pts Battlesmith x2- 140 ea/280 total 1 runsmiter- Searing heat- 120 pts Hearthgaurd berzerkers x 25- 600 pts - I go with poleaxes on both units because i play alot of SCE/night haunt in my group so rend doesnt always work well. hearthgaurd berzerkers x20- 480 points- thinking maybe i take this unit with axes. Vulkite berzerkers x 10- 160 points Lords of the lodge battalion- 140- 2000/2000 The 25 HGB are the battalion unit. I plan on keeping everyone bunched up, heroes in the middle bubblewrapped, and just slowly move forward keeping everyone in range of the buffs. try to put the HGB in front of any threats so i can take the charge with them and activate before the opponent with the lodge ability. The other 10 VB are for objective capping or backline protection. Seems pretty simple, just walk up and get on objectives and hold em while dishing out mortals. I think i might drop the vulkites, split that group of 20 HGB into 2x10 for battleline. Maybe put the smiter on a magmadroth with the 160? Or buy a command point and another leader?

Any lists running 6 stormfiends and 9 jezzails, or is that just too much investment into 2 units? I was thinking warpseer- MoM -300 Seer on bell- Skitterleap- 220 Bombadier- 100- MMMWP / Vigordust Clan rats x20 (3) - 360 pts 9 jezzails 6 stormfiends soulscream bridge I was thinking about bridging the fiends up front, distract and shoot hopefully the big threats, then let the clan rats screen while everything slowly moves up, jezzails shooting any other threats and capping objectives with the clan rats. I dont think its the best list, but i just got 9 jezzails and 6 stormfiends and want to use them lol. Any suggestions or changeups? Im thinking only 1 skyre caster is asking for a bad time.

WLV is so hit or miss for me, i tend to make room for it in every list i run but its probably only really been effective in 1/3 of my matches. The damage it CAN inflict is amazing, but the damage it DOES inflict can be pretty underwhelming at times for how much effort you put into casting it. And even if you CAN cast it, it usually is only really hitting what you need it to turn 1 and then the enemy gets out of its way and you're forced to try and dispell it to try and cast it again or just leave it there to maybe ping some hordes that are near it. Overall its been a bit of a let down lately, but at times its the clutchest ****** to ever exist. So i imagine itll make my lists in the future, but im gonna try and build some without it for now.

Thanks for your write up, i appreciated the input. So i didnt end up facing Khorne, but instead a loN list with Nagash himself. We played the 4 point objective where you have to cap all 4 by turn 3 to win, otherwise its points at end of battle. I def did not have first turn, but the opponent wanted me to go first. So i moved some clanrats up to screen for my jezzails, and i shot his vampire lord out of existence. He took his turn, threw out a spell portal and did some spell that does liek d6 mortals against bravery or some thing? Luckily he rolled hot garbage and it only hit my wheel for 5 ( jezzails and some heroes survived with no MWs). Round 2 he got the double turn, but failed MISERABLY with magic ( double 1s like 3 times lol, which still got off the spell portal but i was able to unbind it on a 6 lol.) He moved up Nagash to get in range for the portal/hand of dust combo on my warpseer next turn, then he got close enough to charge the front lines with his skeleton horde/ Reapers. They wrecked my 20 clan rat screens and unfortunately got into combat with my jezzails. At this point i shot my WLC into Nagash, dealt 5 MWs ( 2 power dice ya boiiii) and my doomwheel rolled over some skeletons to blast his Necromancer into oblivion. I retreated with the jezzails , and my other flank that had the reapers i decided to auto fail the battleshock so i could charge in with a unit of 40 plaguemonks that were behind them. They annihilated the reapers . I got double turn, and in my shooting phase got 4 more MWs on nagash, and finished him off with the jezzails who absolutely smoooooked him with MMMWP and Vigordust injector. At that point opponent had no leaders, like 20 skeletons, and some wolves, so we shook and called it a game. Apparently the first time someone in our playgroup has killed Nagash, so i was stoked. So it went pretty damn well, but i think i got lucky with the enemies casting being bunk. Jezzails most certainly left an impression on me though, and i've only used plaguemonks 1x so they kinda blew me away with how good they are.

Gotcha gotcha. I made a bit of a shooty list, think i might give it a go and just test thew waters out on these Jezzails. Warpseer- 300- Master of magic Bombadier-100- vigordust injector/ MMMWP Engineer - 100- MMMWP 3x 20x clan rats for battleline tax 360 pts 9 jezzails- 420 WLC- 180 doomwheel- 160 Plague monks x 40- 280 WLV -100 2000/2000 Figured id just sit back out of reach of the first turn charge, let them come to me. Screen the front with clan rats, have the jezzails right behind them , the WLC close by for when the big threats get in range, have a doomwheel harassing the flank or going for a suicide run to bracket the bloodthirster and a WLV to stall the center of the board or an objective. Hopefully get some good shooting the first turn or two and then move the clan rats or plague monks out to take the objectives. Warpseer is their so i dont have to take battleshocks because his ability is bonkers lol. I was considering taking out the doomwheel/wlv for a unit of 3 stormfiends, but i dont think 3 is going to be worth it ( only have 3 for now).

so i have procured 9 jezzails, really looking to use them to the best of their ability, but havent had much practice with them. I've got a freindly game against khorne tonight, and i expect to see some big ol demons. Is it better to have the jezzails try to unload into bloodthirsters, or the support heroes? I plan on bringing an engineer and a bombadier for the MMMWP as well as a vigordust injector. I know it becomes situational depending whats on the board, but any advice from people who play them would be welcome. deployment tactics and the like.