Thamalys
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Posts posted by Thamalys
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1 hour ago, Piikalo1 said:
I think you’re thinking of legion of blood. Soulblight doesn’t have any restrictions Like that I believe
Correct.
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3 minutes ago, Rabidweasel said:
So a block of 20 rasps and 2 x 5 wolves is what i was originally looking at with the Flying VL with Vile Tranference.
Sounds good - I would still take 10 wolves instead of 20 rasps on the basis of their speed and the fact that they probably the best screens in the game (and you'll save 20 points...), but again, 20 Rasps is not a bad choice.
5 minutes ago, Rabidweasel said:So you suggest bunch the Blood Knights to one large block of 15 to run with the VL? I originally thought one of 10 one of 5 just so i can reach out to other targets if needed, then use the wolves to grab objectives, chain rasps to sit on an objective.... only 20 so not the hardest to ******, but will be annoying enough.
Right, small vs big units of Blood Knights... it has been discussed multiple times, both have their advantages. The proS, in a nutshell:
* 3 units of 5
- Much easier to get into cover, which could be massive against attacks with no rend (2+ save!!!)
- Much more board control, which - in an objective-based game - is quite key.
- Much more difficult to tag small units into combat, and even more so to tag multiple ones at the same time. more permissive
* A single unit of 15
- For 1 CP you get thrice the benefit.
- Can take out almost everything on the charge. To chomp through filthy stuff such as Petrifex or Fyreslayers you'll need that +1 attack from the VL and the re-roll all failed hits from the VLoZD, though.
- They can tank some damage - 45 wounds with a 4+ (maybe 3+) save is something.
To get the conS, just flip the two lists
Two additional points: playing a unit off 15 BKs requires more skill than playing 3 units of 5. The latter setup is more permissive - one unit got tagged in a combat without the change of getting the charge? No problem, I have two more units.
I guess in your case it comes down to play style: do you want to play for the objectives? 3 units is the way to go, but do remember that you don't have many body to start with, hordes are still going to outperform you. Picking the Rasps could be beneficial in this case. Do you want to screen and then smash everything on the board (that's me... that's what LoB are good at doing IMHO)? Than you need a big blob of 15. With their 16" guaranteed threat range, they can destroy multiple units at the same time, while the VLoZD deals with those pesky heroes... you see why I'd opt for dogs in this case. Don't make the mistake of thinking that screen+charge is a simple/silly strategy. It's very tricky to get everything right, position in particular.
Hope this helps?
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7 minutes ago, Rabidweasel said:
I see your thoughts there.
So revised list:
Leaders
VLoZD - General - Ethereal Amulet - Aura of Dark Magistracy - Vile Transference
Necro - Overwhelming Dread
Battleline
20 x Chainrasps
10 x Chainrasps
10 x Chainrasps
Other
5 x Blood Knights
5 x Blood Knights
5 x Blood Knights
That's 1490/1500 - throw in a malevolent Malestrom? Just because why not?
The VLoZD i could take as Prince V. But then would need to find 30 points, and i feel without back up or buffs to spell casting he may not perform as well at this points level?
The Necro is not a good choice - simply too slow. The Rasps don't do much damage even when attacking twice. Pick a VL (flying horror) instead, who is going to keep up with your BKs and give them +1 attack each. On that point: a unit of 15 BKs with a VL backing them up can raze almost everything, and that'll give you a 6 drops army.
Never take Prince V unless you have another VLoZD. No command trait, no artefact, no extra LoB attack.
The Rasps: yes, they're easier to heal than wolves, they are more resilient and they do a tad bit more damage, but they are slow. Wolves have won me many a game because of their 10" move. However, I do agree with what has been said above: personal preference on this one.
The Necro and Prince V, on the other hand, I don't really think they have their place in a 1500 pts LoB list.
Additional suggestion: put Vile Transference on the VL and Pinions on the VLoZD. Pinions scares people so badly it's just not true, - massive psychological warfare tool.
Lastly: a malevolent Maelstrom is less of a good choice if compared to a Triumph - which can win you a game. Not only the Maelstrom barely does anything, but it takes one of your 2 casting slots...
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4 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:
Seems like you'd be better off just playing LoG lol
From a strictly competitive point of view, that's the sad truth as we speak... at least, that's my opinion... but! The moment you manage to snatch a victory with pure Nighthaunt against a cheesy list (did someone say Tzeench?), you suddenly realise you are actually good at this game...
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9 minutes ago, Dredgejosh said:
It makes sense lol. I was honestly thinking about doing it for the lulz. In all honesty though i'm stuggling coming up with a 1k list. Do I go Dolorous Guard and then some heroes and troops or so I just say ****** that and go no battalion and try something else. I've lost ever 500 point game and getting pretty tilted
As @EnixLHQ pointed out already, 1000 pts is a tough mark for Nighthaunt. I personally wouldn't bring the Dolorous Guard in a 1000 pts game, as 400 pts is just too costly. Here's what I usually run...
- Dreadblade Harrow (General, Gryph-feather Charm, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts)
- Guardian of Souls (Chill Blade, Shademist)
- 1 Spirit Torment
- 6 Spirit Hosts
- 20 Grimghast Reapers
- 5 Bladegheist Revenants
Three blocks:
1. The Dreadblade stays with the Spirit Hosts. With Gryph-feather Charm and Look out Sir he's - 2 to hit vai shooting, can bring back D3 Spirit Hosts / Hero phase for free and for one CP can shift them wherever you want via Spectral Summons. Solid. This is your Mortal Wounds output as well if needed.
2. The Guardian of Souls stays with the Reapers, with Shademist on their are pretty tough to shift, and you get them wounding on 2+. Plus, you can bring D6 back if you manage to get the spell off. Also solid.
3. The Spirit Torment stays with the Revenants, in the Underworld. Just 5 of them, but re-rolling all failed hits because of the Spirit Torment, and hopefully getting +1 attack each on the charge. Not very solid as a high-damage unit, but that's what you can do with 1000 pts as the ceiling.
Not an easy list to play, with positioning being absolutely paramount, but at least it offers a tad bit of target saturation...
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7 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:
My question is how is he allying a Necromancer into NH? I didn't think they were NH allies.
They are not. But, as per the General Handbook 2019, you now have the option to bring in Mercenary Companies (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Mercenary_Companies). Amongst these, there's The Sons of the Lichemaster, which at its bare minimum consist of... well, a singular Necromancer. A bit silly, but hey...
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9 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:
last time i played vhordrai literally murdered his way through his battlefield
One thing about Our Talented Prince: it scares the living shite out of most of your opponents. It is not uncommon for the latter to focus on containing him and/or kill him to such an extent that they end up making some serious mistakes elsewhere on the board. To maximise this effect, give Vhordrai Amethystine Pinions (+5 to move) and casually mention to your opponents that if cast on an unmodified 9+ Our Talented Prince will move an outrageous 24"...
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51 minutes ago, Dredgejosh said:
Quick question since i'm new to all of this
A: How do you get them to wound on 2s?
B: How do you get 240 dice from just a 30 man group of reapers?
C : My escalation league just went to 1k and i'm seriously thinking about taking what you put in last if I can figure out how it works @.@A. Grimghast Reapers regularly wound on 3+. If you manage (tricky...) to have them wholly within 12" of a Guardian of Souls, the latter has an ability (Nightmare Lantern) that grants +1 to wound to friendly Nighthaunt units.
B. 30 Reapers * ( 2 attacks [base] + 1 attack [Vampire Lord command ability, Blood Feast] + 1 attack [Knight of Shroud on Etheral Steed command ability, Lord of Gheists] ) = 120 attacks. If a Necromancer successfully casts Vanhel's Danse Macabre, you can pick the unit to pile in and attack twice. Of course, the unit will probably suffer some damage before it gets the chance to swing twice - hence, 240 is definitely over-optimistic... and the Bell [the Extoller of Shyish, the leader of your Reapers unit] does its own thing...
C. No, don't do it - unless you're in for a laugh. You have 930 out of your 1000 pts into one place... and this is an objective-based game. In a 1000K Nighthaunt list I usually tend to bring at least three different "chunks", so as to threathen/hold three different objectives. In addition, despite their 4+ etheral save, your Reapers are not that durable. Say, a unit of 10 Blood Knights on the charge (with a re-roll all failed hits buff, which costs just a CP if you have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon around) would on average wipe out 24 Reapers. The rate at which you bring them back is slower compared to the rate high-damage units kill them. And, sadly, in Nighthaunt the unit does not come back for a CP (as it does in LoN).
Makes sense?
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12 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
What are your guys' thoughts about The Sons of the Lichemaster mercenary group for us?
I came across a list the player claims he went 3-0 in a small 16-person tournament. In this list he ran the following (built exactly as he has revealed so far):
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Vampire Lord (140)
- Allies
Necromancer (130)
- Allies
Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)
Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (140)
Battalions
Shroudguard (110)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 105I'm not too concerned with the list itself, though a lot of people are now copying it with their own variations and raising some concerns with it. But I want to know if anyone has grabbed both the VL and Necro and think their Deathly Invocations and individual offerings are worth their lack of Ethereal and the Necro's lack of flying.
I love the idea of more model-return. That's 5 units for D3 each between the both of them. Worth it?
It's an interesting list, fairly balanced and with some potential for decent damage. The Vampire Lord (VL) is an auto-include in every Nighthaunt list of mine. The +1 attack on a blob of 30 Reapers is just incredible, and far superior to the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (KoS) Command Ability (CA) - which last for one combat phase only. The VL CA lasts until your next hero phase, and in addition to that its' much, much easier to use, especially on said big blob of Reapers, as you need to be within 15", not wholly within 12" (as in the case of the KoS). To that you add the fact that the VL is a caster that returns D3 wounds for up to 3 summonable units within (not wholly within!) every hero phase and can fly up to 10" (always take the flying horror variant!), and there you have it. Mandatory auto-include.
The Necromancer is also quite good - I did run one in a couple of LoN lists some time ago... I think he's best used in conjunction with Spirit Hosts, though. That's because he moves really slowly and Vanhel on 6-9 Spirit Host is actually quite nasty. On glass cannons such as Revenants, by the time you pick them the second time to fight, most of them will be gone. Still a solid choice - not sure is an autoinclude, but definitely worth thinking about it.
Note that the Sons of the Lichemaster is meant to buff some skellies/zombies... sure, you can just take a single Necromancer, but I'm not sure...
At this point, let's just have a laugh and contemplate the possibility of The Reaper Bomb... 30 Reapers (420 pts) + 1 VL (140 pts) + 1 Necromancer (130 pts) + 1 KoS on Steed (120 pts) + 1 Guardian of Souls give you, for 930 pts and 2 CPs, 240 attacks (neglecting that the bell does its own thing and assuming that [1.] you can pile in 30 Reapers and [2.] Vanhel does go off) hitting on 4s (hopefully re-rolling, as this is The Horde Killer Bomb...), wounding on 2s, -1 rend, 1 damage. That, would be enough to clear three 20-man units of Phoenix Guard in one go. And, every hero phase, you are returning 2D3 (+1D6 if the Guardian of Souls spell is cast) Reapers... not very competitive an option (as it costs more than Nagash...), but I'd love to roll 240 dice...
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34 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:
DG-Hexwraiths can use gravesites as they work indiscriminately even on your opponent. They can also benefit from Endless Legions as it is a command ability that only asks for SUMMONABLE. On the same vein they'd benefit from the 6+ shrug of Deathless Minion. An allied hero like Lady Olynder wouldn't generate the aura herself but would get a 6+ from another hero. She also wouldn't get something like the +1 to casting or even a spell from the spell lore in the first place because those allegiance abilities ask for "wizards in a Legion of Sacrament/Grand Host of Nagash etc army" and as an ally she wouldn't be part of that.
The key word in most of these abilities is "friendly" btw, which makes them so universally applicable.
This is incorrect.
The Hexwraiths in a Dolorous Guard battalion taken as an ally to Legion of Nagash are allies. As such, allies do not benefit from Allegiance Abilities. Sure, gravesites work for your opponent's units as well if they are running LoN - but they won't work on the allied units in your opponent's LoN list.
Gravesites (Invigorating Aura as well as The Unquiet Dead), Endless Legions and Deathless Minions (6+ shrug) are all LoN Battle Traits, and as such they simply cannot be applied to allied units.
It doesn't matter that Hexwraiths are summonable... they are still allies.
From the latest Designer Commentary:
Q: If I include a Chainguard, Execution Horde, or Death Stalkers warscroll battalion in a Legions of Nagash army, is the battalion (and the units in it) an ally?
A: Yes.Deathly Invocation works because is a Warscroll ability, not a Battle Trait.
And no, Lady Olynder does not get Deathless minions from a Death Hero if she's taken as an ally in LoN. She's an ally, and as such she does not benefit from Battle Traits.
From the latest Designer Commentary:
Q: Can I use the Deathless Minions, Endless Legions and Invigorating Aura battle traits for allies in a Legions of Nagash army?
A: No. However, note that several Nighthaunt units can now be taken as part of a Legions of Nagash army, and you can use those battle traits for those units (see the Legions of Nagash errata).Now, Hexwraiths can be taken as part of a LoN army, and in that case they will get access to all of the above. However, in the Dolorous Guard they are still allies, and as such they do not.
Hope this helps.
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21 minutes ago, Spears said:
I agree with your overall assesment of the new Arkhan, Dolorous guard doesn't make him any tougher though. Unless i'm misreading it the bounce is only on the General, Arkhan can't be a Nighthaunt general.
You're absolutely right! Sorry, I was still thinking LoN...
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16 minutes ago, Snoogens said:
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Dolorous Guard was a Nighthaunt only Batallion, and I can't see an option to add Batallions from other allegiances into a list? Sounds cool, but I'm unsure if this actually works?
The Dolorous Guard is a Nighthaunt battalion - correct.
Legion of Nagash has the option to ally Nighthaunt as a faction, so you can ally units and/or battalion. Crucially (this has been specified in the FAQs), even though the units making up an allied battalion might be Legion of Nagash units (that's the case for Hexwraiths), you still treat them as allies, because they are part of an an ally battalion.
In the case of the Dolorous Guard, then, you pay 140x2=280 pts worth of Hexwraiths (2 units of 5) and 140 pts for the battalion: 400 pts on the nose (neat), which is right on the limit of what you can ally in a 2000 pts list.
Note that:
- As long as you can pay the points for it, you can ally any other Nighthaunt battalion in Legion on Nagash. For instance, the Chainguard is fairly popular option.
- You can only ally battalions from factions that figure in the allies. For Legion of Nagash, that'd be Nighthaunt and Flesh-eater Courts.
- The Dolorous Guard is less solid in Legion of Nagash compared to Nighthaunt. This is because the Hexwraiths units in the Guard are allies in Legion of Nagash: as such, they do not get the 6+ shrug and they do not count toward battleline requirements. You can't heal them via the gravesites either, nor you can bring them back via Endless Legion. However, you can heal them via Deathly Invocation and/or spells such as Vile Transference.
In summary: yes you can!
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11 hours ago, Dredgejosh said:
I have a Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament. Do you think he will be good with a Dolorous guard (if he is any good got him with my nighthaunts in a trade) and if so does he fit in any battalion or is he just solo?
Long story short: I (personally!) don't think good ol' Arkhan is worth taking in a Nighthaunt list anymore. Here's why...
[edit: as righteusly pointed out by @Spears below, Arkhan cannot be taken as a General in a Nihgthaunt army, so no Dolorous Guard for him!]
*Pros
- The Dolorous Guard will make Arkhan really tough to kill - that's great, as all the Mortarchs are notoriously squishy.
- Arkhan is fast. Really fast if in his top bracket (16").
- His Mortarch os Sacrament ability is really good: heal/bring back 3 (not D3! 3, flat!) wounds worth of models to 4 (4!) summonable units within 24" (wow!). That's really quite something. It'll boost the healing capability of your list by a sizable margin. And that just happens, for free, every hero phase - sweet.
- +2 to cast/unbind/dispel if in the top bracket. Powerful, and Curse of Years is still a very powerful spell (albeit the endless cascade down to 1's dealing mortal wounds as been FAQ'd).
* Cons
- Arkhan sucks in melee. The Dolorous guard is (in my opinion) meant to grant some staying power to characters with some solid damage output (Olynder is probably the best choice you have, as her damage is mostly morta wounds).
- Arkhan has lost the ability to know the spells of every other Death wizard (within a certain range I can't recall) on the table. This is a huge problem, in that - as an ally - Arkhan doesn't get access to the Nighthaunt spell lore. No more Shademist on a 4+, sadly...
- Arkhan is costly. 360 pts. It's a big investment... Olynder and Reikenor (who usually gives you a +3 to cast, with obviously access to the Nighthaunt lore) together cost 370 pts.
- Arkhan is still an ally. No Spectral Summons (despite him being real fast... shame), no 6+ shrug...
In a nutshell: now that Arkhan has lost his signature ability, I don't think he's worth taking anymore. Unless, you have 4 units os Spirit Hosts in your list (to maximise his healing) and a good number of endless spells to bring with you. Even then, I wouldn't be so sure...
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15 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
Good news, everyone! My guide is updated with list building strategies and a few example lists!
Go and tear it apart!
Really thorough - well done! Excellent for beginners, granted, but quite useful for scruffy veterans as well!
Two comments:
- No mention of the Mourngul? Some will say it’s overcosted, and maybe it is.... but: Spirit Torment + Mourngul is a very durable combo (for Nighthaunt standards) with some surprising punch as well (for Nighthaunt standard). 6” of -1 to hit, rerolling ones, often healing 2D3, a neat blend of damage 2 attacks, minus 2 rend and mortal wounds as well. Plus, it’s the biggest ghost of them all...
- Everything you wrote about using our movement shenanigans is very true. What is also very true, sadly, is the fact that Nighthaunt have almost zero shooting. The strength of factions such as Seraphons, Cities, Stormcast Eternals, Overlords... is that not only they can move stuff around with ease - but once they do, they don’t even need to make the charge. Their Razordons, Hurricanums, Ballistas and Ironclads will happily get 9” away from you and shoot most units off the table. We? We need the charge, especially against experienced opponents that know how to zone us out - and often they have the bodies to do it. Wave of terror is elusive, the Cogs are a big investment... yes, you really need the dice to help you out with our ghosts, no matter the extent to which you are a Creed...
Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with the Dolorous Guard elsewhere (Legion of Blood), because a very tough Olynder is scary, sure, but a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 20 wounds of Hexwraiths around is even scarier... this battalion is phenomenal for Death in general, coming in at exactly 400 pts worth of allies... again, is somehow sad that the best bits of the Nighthaunts often work much better in some other splinter of the Death GA.
It’s a start, though, and your guide captures a lot of what we can do, so... kudos to you!
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13 minutes ago, N.I.B. said:
Excuse a newcomer, but what is CA? Command Ability is Endless Legions, I assume that is not what you meant.
That’s what I meant indeed. Endless Legions is an additional CA that is granted to any Legions of Nagash General. Many Heroes have their own CAs, and unless specified otherwise CAs from the Allegiance (such as Endless Legions) and CAs from the Warscrolls are not mutually exclusive.
For instance: a Vanpire Lord as a General of a Legion of Blood army will get to use both Endless Legions as well as his own CA from his Warscroll (Blood Feast). You can use them both in the same round/turn, and even more than once - if you’re lucky enough to have enough CPs, of course 😜
Makes sense?
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9 hours ago, Rabidweasel said:
Sadly don't have any other zombie dragon models yet. I have nightmare/winged Vamp models, some necromancers, Foot Wright King and a Coven throne (well nagash as well.... but can't really use him!)
Thinking of taking a Vamp on Nightmare to buff the VLoZD with the +1 attack command ability so he'll get +2 with that and LoB Bonus. Then i'm torn between a third vamp to babysit the battleline, which i'll probably drop the chainrasps in favour of 40 spear skeletons. Or a Necro.
That leaves me with 20points spare, or 40 if i drop the gravetide. Or 30(50) points spare if i go necro.
+1 attack CAs work at their best on big units - my favourite example being big blobs of Grimghast Reapers in LoN. The VLoZD, un-buffed, struggles with the fact that both of the Dragon’s melee profiles hit on 4+. Adding +1 attack is way less efficient than using the VLoZD own CA. In fact, on a VLoZD in LoB, full health (with sword, but similar arguments apply for the lance), against a 4+ save:
- No buffs: 7.56 damage
- +1 Attack on each melee weapon, dragon included (VL CA): 9 damage
- Re-rolling all hits, (VLoZD CA): 10.96 damage
- Both CAs... 13.06 - juicy, but do you really have 2 CPs to invest?
As it stands, with one VLoZD only and no Blood Knights, heading toward LoS is probably a better way forward if compared to LoB? Just a thought...
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4 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:
Where does it say a named character can't use it? I've never heard this before.
Me neither - Spectral Summons is a Command Ability listed under the "Battle Traits" section of the book. It's not a command trait, though, just a CA that your general gains on top of whatever CA they already have, hence I'd say it can be used by named characters as well. Having said that, I've always picked the Dreadblade Harrow as my NH general, so I never spent too much time worrying about this...
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What about Legion of Sacrament? In my opinion, Legion of Blood only truly shines if you are running some (i.e. a minimum of 10) bloodknights and 1, ideally 2 VLoZDs. Here's a list which leverages Grimghasts Reapers and Spirit Hosts, both very good NH units, especially when you can bring them back for 1 CP. In fact, I'm now tempted to give it a go myself. The VLoZD moves 14" to start with, +3" because of the command trait (and so would the Dolorous Guard around him!), most likely +5" because of Amethystine Pinions (which casts on a 4+ because of the allegiance ability). Good luck killing that chap... then, the Vampire Lord gives +1 attack to each of the Reapers (bonkers), sorting out the anti-horde department, and the Necromancer can sits on an objective of your choosing (good luck displacing 9 Spirit Hosts... they managed? Well, 1 CP after...) and Vanhel your Spirit Hosts for an (un)healthy dosage of MWs (9 SHs * 6 attacks * 2 * 1/6 = 18 MWs on average...). Three big blocks, all of them with serious staying power, all of them dishing out some proper damage, with most of the stuff coming back on 1 CP. 121 wounds... looks solid to me. Yes, we have 20 Reapers (close enough to a horde, I suppose), but overall we have < 60 models - what do you reckon?
Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
LEADERS
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Command Trait : Mark of the Favoured
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Artefact : Rune Blade
- Lore of the Vampires : Amethystine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
- Flying Horror
- Artefact : Shroud of Darkness
- Lore of the Vampires : Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages : Overwhelming Dread
UNITS
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
- Allies
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
9 x Spirit Hosts (360)BATTALIONS
The Dolorous Guard (120) - Allies
TOTAL: 2000/2000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1, WOUNDS: 121
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16 minutes ago, plavski said:
and probably some big over-arching grand Death allegiance
Perhaps with Gravesites/Endless Legions? Well, a man can dream, I suppose...
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15 minutes ago, Piikalo1 said:
Is walking Death not enough of a dmg boost to warrant a take? In my meta Im thinking of this as the trait because things need to die or I tend to get blown out like stonehorns and the like. Whats peoples take on this trait? Is it not as potent as I’m thinking?
I assume on a VLoZD? Is a decent trait, however: A. with 4(5) attacks only for the lance(sword), 6+ are quite rare and; B. what truly makes a VLoZD a killy Hero is his own CA. As such, I’d say is usually best to take Aura of Immortal Majesty (-1 to hit in combat) to boost his survivability, and rely on his CA to delete most things instead. Having said that, in the double VLoZD list I posted yesterday I have an artefact to spare... if you pick, say, the Amberglaive (+1 to hit, +1” range to a melee weapon) and pair it with Walking Death you’re now dealing mortal wounds on 5+ to hit. Sweet. Add in the CA (re-roll all failed hits) and suddenly this trait is worth taking, I’d say.
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8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:
Also amulet works better for me because I can combine it with enemy hiting on 6s.
You mean via Neferata's CA? Sometimes you need 4 CPs to get those pesky elite units to hit you on 6s...
8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:If your dragon cost 800 points becasue it is unkillable then your oponent will just ignere it and win.
VLoZD and Hexwraiths move 14" and 12", respectively... your opponent can try to ignore them, but they can either (1.) sit on a objective for 5 turns straight (Places of Arcane Power, Knife to the Heart, Duality of Death, Relocation Orb... with a beast like that in play...) and/or (2.) move forward and kill most things in one go (a LoB VLoZD with his own CA switched on can take on a lot of things...)
8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:On the other hand neferata cannot be just ignored because she cann support others even if enemy ignores her
Don't get me wrong, I almost always try to squeeze Neferata into my LoB lists, but she can't stay around for long... and you're right, the Dolorous Guard can fix that. However, I still think she might go down with not too much effort even with the Guard to support her, and her CA, while sometimes utterly hilarious, costs you a ton of CPs, goes down in range when bracketed and most importantly of all implies that you have to have two substantial chunks of your list within 15" to take full advantage of that. My LoB lists are very much elite-like (which poses a problem in terms of bodies, but that's a story for another day...), and I just can't afford to have my VLoZD or my Bloodknights close enough to Neferata when I am facing armies with lot of potential for board control (and there are quite a few of these around). Finally, no command trait to be leveraged with Nef in... very sad, given how strong they are.
6 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:That beeing said I have seen many wrong builds on big tournaments.
True that... alright, here're two possible Dolorous Guard builds, one with Nef and a VLoZD, the other one with two VLoZDs... food for thoughts!
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30 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:
you cannot have 2 gryph feather charms
I do apologise, @ZLee Syn, I might stand corrected on this one... not that clear to me. I have always assumed that the two identical artefacts on two different (non-named) Heroes would have been perfectly ok, as I've seen this happening in more than one tournament... even looking through the LVO 2020 lists I found one with a double artefact (see below)... however, digging in the core rules I found that "an army may not include duplicates of the same artefact of power" (page 242). On the other hand, both Azyr and Warscroll Builder are ok with duplicated artefacts (I know, I know, they're not meant to be flawless). Now I am mightily confused... any thoughts?
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8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:
you cannot have 2 gryph feather charms
Of course I can.
8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:hexwraiths wouldnt get 6+ negation
Sure, but the VLoZD would - and you can still get them back via Detahly Invocation.
8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:For most shooting ethereal amulet is better
There are quite a few threads about this... the Amulet is definitely better against high rend attacks, but the Charm is positively better against volume of attacks. Shooting tends to be more about the latter than the former, I'd say. Running to VLoZDs with two Amulets is also a strong build, though.
8 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:for mortals gryph feather charm doesnt help.
Nor does the Amulet.
But the Dolorus Guard does help against both shooting and mortals, passing wound and/or mortal wounds on the HeW on 2+. Squishy things will still be blown away by, say, a Tzeench double turn within 18" of their casters or a MW-heavy Cities build.
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On 2/11/2020 at 9:15 AM, ZLee Syn said:
If we have determined that allying in a Dolorous Guard Battalion would be match play legal, what do people think about adding that to a Court of Nulahmia list?
I've been toying with this idea (i.e. adding the Dolorous Guard Battalion to a LoB list) since I got that White Dwarf issue in my letterbox. It is definitely legal, albeit - annoingly enough - Azyr refuses to acknowledge the existence of the new Nighthaunt battalions. Warscroll builder does the trick (switching the Alliance [LoB-Nighthaunt-LoB] mid-way, which is still sub-optimal, but hey...).
The idea of having a nigh unkillable Neferata is attractive - but not as attractive as to make a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon your general. We are talking 14 wounds to start with, D6 wound back once per game via the Chalice of Blood, 1 wound back every combat phase he kills anything, Vile Transference on top, 20 wounds worth of Hexwraiths (no, I don't think it's worth taking more than 2 units of 5, this is a rather costly endavour points-wise already...) which you can heal via Deathly Invocation (that's on the VLoZD Warscroll, so it does apply even when dealing with allies such as the HexW in the Dolorous Guard!) and Vile Transference as well, and a 6+ shrug to top it off. I still have to try it out (I splashed some cash to get myself 10 Dreadblade Harrows and 10 Grimghast Reapers to convert into HexW, as I hate the models... I'm almost done with them, though!), but seriously... ah, and I am not done yet. Take Aura of Dark Majesty as Command Trait (-1 to hit in combat) and the Gryph-feather charm (-1 to hit flat), and there you have it: unadulterated cheese (finally!) to rock our beloved LoB!
And - with the battallion we get an extra command point and an extra artefact... what's filthier than a VLoZD with the GFCharm? Why, TWO VLoZDs with the GFCharm, obviously. Add some Blood Knights into the mix and you have a list that not only kills eveyrthing it touches, but it also has a majestic staying power. It can take on the new Tzeench, folks - that's how arrogant I feel at the moment.
I recently came third at a (small) tournament (with a narrative twist - not a phenomenal achievement, but hey...) with a list including Neferata, Vhordrai and a VLoZD: I do believe that with the addition of the Dolorous Guard, LoB has now the potential to threathen the top tables... come on folks: for Our Beautiful Queen... FORWARD!
AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion
in Death
Posted
Yes, 40 Rasps are quite durable - for Nighthaunt standards. Even more durable options (e.g. Spirit Hosts, Grimghast Reapers) are available, but you pay a hefty price for those. The Chainguard battalion is probably the best option you have to try and have them surviving more than one turn against decently killy units. I'd personally put the Wychlight Lantern on your Guardian of Souls, as maximising the chances of casting Spectral Lure with him is quite paramount. Even better, and if you can be bothered to bring some 80 Rasps, two blocks of 40 are quite tough to shift as a whole. Note however that there is a big difference between a 5+ and a 4+ ethereal save when large number of dice are involved...
On a related note: I wouldn't say Nighthaunt are MSU. That's one way to play them, but I'm not sure is the most effective one - surely not in every scenario. MSUs marginally improve your chances of a Wave of Terror and give you more board control. True. However, MSUs deal very little damage even when attacking twice in a row, and you end up with a ton of drops that can be deleted very easily by most of your opponent. Remember, we are no LoN - our units do not come back. I personally run big blocks to maximise damage, increase resilience and taking advantage of the regiment discounts (very important given how costly our models are). My lists tend to include 9 Spirit Hosts (good luck getting rid of them if your general has Ruler of the Spirit Hosts...), 30 Reapers and 20 Revenants - three big blocks with decent staying power. Would you risk a Wave of Terror with 3 units of 10 Reapers, or would you bank on piling 20 of them in? I know what I would do