EnixLHQ

I don't think our warscrolls are really that bad. We have some bad units, yes, but on average if you plucked a warscroll from our lineup and dropped them into any other allegiance ruleset you'd find they hold up pretty well. We got to do that legally with Legion of Grief, which consistently placed in top 10 at tournaments year before last (all the citations are already in this thread, and --granted-- before the loss of Aetherquartz Brooch). Grimghast Reapers are a prime example of this, being so strong in LoN that the warscroll got nerfed despite them only being somewhat strong in NH. Field our units under some other faction's rules that have horde and horde/elite mixes like FEC and we hold up really well. Problem is that if you were to drop NH warscrolls into a faction like OBR you'll find they'll break very easily. What this suggests is that our biggest source of gameplay bottlenecking comes from our allegiance rules. I won't say no to a good spring cleaning of our warscrolls if it got us better Glaivewraiths, better ranged, and better wizards, but I'd argue I'd rather get a more substantial and solid ruleset first. Exactly this. It's gambling. It all comes down to if you make Wave of Terror or not. All your master tactics, getting your units into the right positions, mitigating your losses, pinning opponents and challenging objectives, no matter how well you play that game, or how far you outplay your opponent, when it comes down to the exchange of damage in a battle we either hit WoT once and come out okay, or not at all and crumple. Tons of lists exist where WoT is pretty much ignored, trying to factor in other strengths of the army, but none of these list placed consistently in any rankings, and usually rely on other gimmick types that once figured out hamstring your chances. My murderball is an excellent example of this, where the list is very strong against low range/magic opponents to the point of being almost overpowering, but as soon as you realize you can snipe the Spirit Torment the whole ball essentially tarpits itself. After that your only hope is to camp. If you need objectives still, though, then your only other option is to try to nail that WoT anyway. If our new battletome (whenever it comes out... Really? Hedonites got a new one already? LRL getting an expansion already? Do they hate us?) all it did was give us a more consistent WoT or a better and more frequent model return mechanic we'd be in that medium-high power level again. My custom model return rule definitely made me feel more solid and balanced against LRL, KO, and Cities. But, honestly, I hope the redesign the book from the ground up. I hope all this silence and apathy toward NH is actually a way to keep things veiled while they cook up a great book and test it's iterations, so that they can truly design a balanced and powerful terrorizing faction for us. In fact, they could personally tell me to shut the hell up and be patient and I would happily comply for another year just from the acknowledgement.

Yes. Separately.

Custom lore? There's a few members of our community who have done write ups or other media about it. One of my favorites is this: Bloodhaunt Shout out to Duskwalker <- Check out their IG I have custom lore for my version of NH, too, though not so succinctly presented like Duskwalker's. Mine are a sect that rose up through the underworld into Hysh and became corrupted by the realmstone there. It shined a light into their souls revealing to the mindless ones just enough awareness to start seeing the torment they are locked in, and for the ones who could still think on their own it drove in maddening shards of light into them that reflected their bleakness back into them and shattered their minds. They screamed in new pain and agony and the scism broke them, but also Nagash's hold on them, both freeing them and plunging them into the quasi-realm between Hysh and Ulgu, near to the obscured place Slaanesh is held. There they roiled in the darkness until they could claw themselves out, using their madness as a guiding light. The Enixian Nighthaunt, the Light that is not Light, the Penumbral Stalkers, the Ethereal Dusk, are thrice-cursed and seek to quell their discordant voices by drowning Nagash and all who serve him in the cacophony they now know. Dramatic, I know. Needs some streamlining, too. But it's come a long way.

Huh? What? AoS? What's that? Sounds like a fun game. Too bad I don't have a battletome for all these models I've got.

Just played two games. Tied on the first, won on the second but only by the grace of the objective pull. Game 1: Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (Leader) (265) Chainghast (170) Grimghast Reaper (135) x2 Bladegheist Revenant (135) x2 Total: 975 This did alright... The break out star was the KoSoES, who benefitted from the extra movement and his Stolen Hours ability on a double. This allowed me to put him into combat immediately, and since the objective was controlling quadrants for points and I was a model fewer than my opponent, I had to be aggressive. He did his job and more, healing himself and bringing back a model. The worst performers were the Bladegheists. My opponent targeted my Reapers, so I never had the chance to Soul Mark, and against some KO who could consistently buff their own Toughness the Bladegheists scored, I think, maybe 1 point of damage in 3 turns. Unlucky rolls, for sure. The Chainghast actually performed really well, doing the second-most amount of damage. Though his range was less than the KO ranged units, that didn't really factor in much, having most of his shooting opportunities in range without moving much. He was lucky with rolls, so if he wasn't I don't think he would have been that great of a unit. Reapers get an honorable mention here because they usually perform well, but my opponents know to remove them ASAP, so if I don't protect them they don't last. Game 2: Guardian of Souls (220) x2 Chainrasp (80) x7 This game I wanted to see if we're meant to be a horde army even in Warcry. The GoS triple is a gamble, because not only is it taking up the same ability level as Spectral Summons, it only brings back 1 damage per model. But, that suggested to me that the GoS is meant to be surrounded by models like Chainrasps, where you'd actually replace Spectral Summons with the heal. Makes sense, right? Yeah, well, maybe not. Against the KO again, this time melee-centric, every matchup was a dead Chainrasp in a single exchange. 8 HP is just not enough. I couldn't make any combat exchange worth it. The victory condition was the defender (me) being able to select a model as a treasure carrier in the 2nd round, and wining if I retain the treasure by the end of the 3rd. That was just a stroke of luck that I had 3x the movement and basically cinched the victory on that virtue alone. All in all I think that our strongest models are still KoS, KoSoES, Spirit Hosts, and Reapers. Still, there's a lot of roster left to pick through for some possible synergies and matchups.

Looking closer at the model, he seems to be pulling out ethereal energy from the skull. Could we maybe have a hero with a resurrection spell or ability? Maybe a summon?

You're probably right. But it's something new and not in a White Dwarf for once. If it's just a new Spirit Torment sculpt, I've got those already. If it's a new Guardian of Souls sculpt, well I did miss out on Mr. Mortality Glass, but I've still got enough of them. This has to be something different. And they better get some Gray Seer spray back in stock, too.

Horseburner (really? Horse burner?) is right, this signals we're about to get a new battletome! I'm all about that new V2 Nighthaunt smell.

By Nagash, this thread be raised! Join now Lady Olynder's call of mourning and spare none in the Eightpoints your icy cold rage. We have a new book, Bringers of Death, and with it a total of 12 heros and 9 troop options. It's also nice to see Chilling Horde reprinted giving Chainrasps their +1 to both strength and attacks. Let's talk strategy! Prior to this release this was my most successful warband: • Dreadwarden • 1x Knight of Shrouds • 2x Myrmourn Banshees • 4x Chainrasps Total: 985 points, 8 models It is a nice mix of bodies and killing power, and you're not fighting for dice on abilities. A close second would be this: • Extoller • 2x Spirit Hosts • 2x Grimghast Reapers • 1x Chainrasp Total: 985 points, 6 models This one handled defensive or offensive objectives well enough, but fell apart as soon as a Reaper died and the other was too far to give a Spirit Host a boost. Looks scarier than the first list, but with major weaknesses. But now I'm looking at these others we've been cursed with. Chainghasts! With range! Banshee screams. Bladegheists Revenants with no abilities but 4 strength? Hmm, okay on that one. And a Guardian of Souls. I am so running him next game. What have you guys been battling with?

Good enough for me! Also, thanks for finding that, I was looking everywhere for that.

These are really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

You could go the Dire Wolves route, then. Minimum 5 to a unit, max 30. Same base size as Hexwraiths or Dreadblade Harrow. Would mean at the minimum 10 models to convert.

You know, I agree. Hard agree. No disrespect to our bonedaddy, but I have always had my Nighthaunt lore separated from him. Even going so far as finding ways to break free from him and plot revenge. I would love that as a mainline story arc, where Lady O, or perhaps even more so Kurdoss, is driven by a mad revenge against Nagash for his twisted sense of justice. I think this is exactly it. When NH came out it was a new concept for a new version of AoS and perfectly pitted against Stormcast, but at the cost of sacrificing its own lore. To tie back into my lore rant from earlier, Nighthaunt having a Bravery of 8 or 6 when on the field without Olynder in the army would make sense. Or still have 10, but it degrades over time, like -1 per round or something. Because the commanders would be pulling double-duty trying to both herd cats into the same direction for an attack, while also keeping those cats subservient enough to be that attacking force. If you didn't want to have to deal with that mechanic, drop Olynder on the table and suddenly the entire army is Bravery 10. But we're all over the place in terms of what we'd like to see in a tome because we're all very cognisant of how we're broken, I think. We all know where we lack, because we've felt it on the table over and over again. But we also have no idea what future armies are going to look like. Or what AoS 3 would look like. It's been a while since I played AoS (been WarCrying it lately), but the last time we did we ran with a NH faction ability house rule: After the battleshock phase roll a D6 for each Nighthaunt model that fell earlier this turn, including those that fled from battleshock. On a 6 remove one wound from that model and return it to its unit. If there is no unit to return a model to, make no roll; that model is lost. Doing this at the end of the turn before passing it off to the next player to start meant that you still had to try to resurrect models during gameplay, since your spells or RothSH, or the Black Coach were the only mostly guaranteed ways of bringing them back, but you could potentially revive a few when we are at our weakest. Plus it was easy to remember to do, since it's the tally/move the models off the board phase. That one house rule made me feel like I was balanced again. My opponents, even if they really hated the idea when first asked to let me try it, afterwards said that the games played with it were so much more challenging, tactical, and fun, while never feeling like I robbed them of their power or that I was overpowered myself.

Don't be afraid to make that Spirit Torment the general with RotSH on him. You could commit that murderball of Spirit Hosts to otherwise insane matchups that would otherwise be suicide and really shape board tactics. Though I love of the concept of an army that benefits off of Bravery like this, it's not going to elevate us out of the ditch we're in without it causing ripple effects down the line. High Bravery armies would shut us down without requiring any actual gameplay to do it unless we have reliable ways to lower it like you pointed out, but by giving us reliable Bravery reduction tools we will decimate low Bravery armies without much effort on our part. That will cause those armies to get a higher Bravery scaling when their books re-release. I think GW kind of screwed the pooch when they started handing out high Bravery to non-Death units because it ultimately made Bravery a non-issue for most armies except the horde ones, and then fixed that by making sure those armies always had a way to cheat battleshock. As much as I would love it, I don't see Bravery being a huge mechanic unless AoS 3.0 rewrites how it works fundamentally. Battlelines are determined by the army, not the unit. So some units might be battleline in one configuration but not another. In this case, LoG's battlelines are: Chainrasp Horde, Dire Wolves, Skeleton Warriors, and Zombies. In Nighthaunt the battlelines are: Chainrasp Horde, Grimghast Reapers, Hexwraiths, and Spirit Hosts. All of those Nighthaunt units are allowed in LoG, but don't keep their battleline designation.

It's crazy, isn't it? It's swingy, but thanks to all those 1's being rerolled the bottom part of that swing is still pretty damaging. But, man, all those mortals! How did you run them?

As far as I can tell he just said he'd "pass that on tomorrow." And that the concern is "on the list." But, I don't think a points reset was intended, either. Unless... *puts on fanboy hat and reads too deeply into it*

Lore and gameplay don't usually line up. If they did Nighthaunt would be a scourge on a level so great since Lady Olynder took over that other armies, in the middle of their bloody fights with dire enemy factions, would temporarily join forces against NH whenever they chilled the land. In lore Nighthaunt is so feared, so relentless, and so deadly the only reason Nagash didn't send them to win all his fights is because they were leaving eviscerated soulless corpses in their wake and not taking items, bones, or any other spoils of war with them, effectively leaving immense resources on the field that Nagash felt belonged to him. In fact, the only downside to Nighthaunt in terms of lore was that if they were in the realms of the living too long it would take Olynder herself to reign them back in. Her generals and other heroes would eventually lose control of the sheer rabid hatred and frenzy of these tortured souls and they would scatter. In other words, without Lady O they were the perfect lightning strike force coming in from all directions and washing over the enemy like a wave, and with her the perfect standing army with unwavering wills, ultimate focus, and unlimited new recruits. Not to mention that the Lady herself was causing the hearts of battle-hardened Stormcast warriors to literally seize in their chests, or make their generals fall to their knees and weep, just by her presence a battlefield away. And let's not get started on what Kurdoss brought to the table, or how the Emerald Curse works. They do have a hidden weakness that may be highlighted in a Broken Realms book, though. Especially with Teclis. It's hinted very heavily that Nighthaunt get their power, as in their ability to effect physical matter, through their composition being heavy in amethyst magic. Should that be undone they would be reduced to wailing shades fading into the wind. *sigh...* All you have to do is read the last few dozen pages of this thread to see how we so very much want NH as a faction to more line up to their lore.

https://aosshorts.com/age-of-sigmar-faqs-complete-version/ Various places whenever spells, abilities, or even combat is detailed. In particular, page 8.

Been playing Warcry a bit, trying out Nighthaunt builds for that. Really haven't done much else in a long while...

Okay, so this is pretty easy to hash out, but is kind of complicated to explain. In an Activation War (questions like this), ties and conflicts are resolved by the following: Whoever turn it is, their abilities resolve first and take effect first. Then the other player's abilities and effects happen. This applies to everything happening in the same phase. Anything happening after that phase happens after I'm terms of effect, too. The last thing to be true is the thing that's true. So, for example, Soul Cage takes place in the hero phase. The Hermdar command ability takes place in the Combat Phase, so since the ability takes place after the spell was cast, it overrides that part of Soul Cage. In this case, Skull-breakers and Oath-takers takes place last, is true last, so therefore is true. Yep, they can negate half of our spell at the cost of a CP.

Okay, I think I get the question. There are two questions here, and I will try to answer both. Question 1: What takes precedence, Core Book, Battletomes, or FAQs? Answer: The Core Book is the foundation and sets all the rules in the most basic and generic way. It's the default ruleset. The Battletome comes after that, overriding anything that it says operates differently than the Core Rules. This is what enables armies to have their own rule sets, a battletome has to overwrite the Core Book, but only in ways it says are different than the Core Rules. FAQs then further overwrite both the Core Book and Battletomes, but only if their release date is after everything already mentioned. In other words it goes Core Rules < Battletome < FAQs where FAQs are newer than the battletome. Question 2: Consider the following wording - Nighthaunt Battletome, page 53 - Returning Slain Models Does the final sentence mean that if I return models to a unit that's NOT in combat, but I have a unit that IS in combat, can I then return models to the non-combat group in order to break the 3" rule and bring them into combat? Answer: The "model return" core rule was FAQed to the following: The above clarifies that you can only return models within 3" of an enemy to a unit that itself was already within 3" of that same enemy unit. You cannot use this ability to snare additional enemy units into combat. Essentially, you check to see if the unit was already in combat range prior to returning a model, and if so you may continue to place models within 3". This FAQ was released on 16/12/2019, and the NH battletome was released in 2018. Since the FAQ came out after the NH battletome, the FAQ's definition of model return applies. So, after everything being said, the rule is as follows: If you can return a model to a unit, it must go to a unit that has models missing (can't add to a unit that's already full). In addition, models must be returned outside 3" of any enemy units, unless that specific unit was already within 3" of an enemy prior to models being returned.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. For Nighthaunt the model return mechanic sticks to the same rules. If you evoked an ability or performed an action that can return a model, then you do so. You select the unit to which this effect applies and check to see where the existing models are. You then place the returned model within the unit, minding the 1" unit coherency rule. Once placed, that model is now legit in the unit and defines the new edge of the unit for the purpose of placing down the next returned model. After that it's just a simple combat range check: is that unit already within 3" of an enemy unit? If so, great, return models wherever you like including in the face of the enemy. If it's not within 3", then you can't breech the 3" barrier by returning models any closer than that. This means daisy-chaining models you return into a conga line down the table is a legit tactic, and is a way you can "cheat" movement out of your units. But other than using this to surround an enemy unit with bodies, staying outside 3", you can't use this to snare a unit into combat that wasn't already in combat with that unit. And lastly, you cannot engage an enemy unit with one of your units and then return models to another unit nearby that's not in combat range and then break that 3" barrier with the enemy unit. They may be in combat with you, but that check is per-unit, not "if in combat".

I suppose what's good is that in the time following our NH release GW has played with various abilities and functions across the army to get a feel with how they play on the table. It's good because whenever we do get our update they'll have a lot more data to pull from to, hopefully, put together a great tome for us. I just wish that new tome was a thing that was happening.

By the way, my friend just started a new gaming channel. He's a brand new baby let's player, so there's not a lot of content up yet and he's still working on, well, all the everything. But, I'm in it, too. Whenever there is any AoS or Warcry content I'll be collaborating with him to bring Nighthaunt in it's various forms to the table, and maybe branching out to other armies later. Right now the only related video is this one: Where we build the Catacombs Warcry set. I'm the one who builds the terrain. I promised you guys a show of my Mortal Reign Mk. 2 list, but the footage didn't turn out well. He might still release it later if it can be salvaged, or release it as link-only content which I'll put here. Once we nail down how we want to film you'll see a lot more NH play action on the channel. But, for now you can see my stupid face stumbling over what to even call myself and hear me babble about the Warcry set. In the future I'll try to answer questions or refer to comments here and on the channel and try to interact where I can. It's his channel, though, so please remember that if you sub or comment. I'm just helping him out.