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Smooth criminal

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  1. Smooth criminal
    GW's modus operandi so far is "increase costs for popular things and decrease for unpopular ones". I would totally expect an increase on dogs and priests and decrease on warriors, reavers. Thirsters, reapers, crushers, letters, etc. already got adjustements in the book, I don't expect them to be changed this soon. I really hope they dial lords back and reduce cannons to apologize for the wrathmonger fiasco, but that probably won't happen.
  2. Smooth criminal
    I think, that: - Lauchon isn't a good idea. Having to cast a spell is anti-synergy with shrine and you want to have a shrine. Also Khorne is very bad at alpha striking not because it's relatively slow, but because we need to stretch our auras for maximum effect and that is only doable in Gore pilgrims and only for Bloodsecrator aura. Not to mention Khorne doesn't provide bonuses to cast and if you fail the Lauchon cast you just got a 200 points of do nothing in your army. - the biggest advantage of playing BoC is access to solid brick units because normally Khorne warscrolls are kinda bad at bricking up. I would consider 2 bricks of bestigors (at 300 they are a steal and better than anything in Khorne book) with a priest each and small screening Gor units. - you either take Gore pilgrims or don't take Bloodsecrator at all since he will hard time catching both bricks in his aura - BoC doesn't have flyers, so I'd take a thirster. The default one is UF, but you will need CPs for battleshock and you don't care about mortal hosts really, so WoK with strike first artifact in Bloodlords makes more sense. - I would pick a demon buffing host so summoned demons are buffed for free. So that would put us at: WoK, general, first strike Beastlord Bloodsecrator, 2+ save against magic 2x priests, frenzy, bronze flesh 2x30 bestigors 1x10 gors 1x10 reavers 1x5 warriors 1x Despoilers 1x Gore pilgrims Totalling 1780, 3 drops A case can be made for sacrifice instead of brinze flesh so you get faster to 4 BP and make your bricks fight more. On the other hand giving Bestigors +1 to save and reroll 1s on save for CP also seems great. The rest can be filled with anything though I would prioritize judgements, fast units and small units for BPs. Like 2x5 centigors and an axe.
  3. Smooth criminal
    UF is usable in any host and a default pick. You don't even need Reapers that much because other hosts have either +damage or +2 attacks bonuses so his damage doesn't fall off that much. IR is the high risk high reward one. He can whiff completely or carry a game by himself. I think Bloodlords is the worst host for him, because he wants artifacts and traits that let him hit more, not the strike first. You want him to be in Reapers, charge, go first in usual order and double tap consecutively and hope he demolishes everything around him. WoK is the best in Bloodlords I think. With general trait he has a low chance of whiffing a charge (that normally makes UF better with his 6") and his math against heroes is better than UF. Also the proper strike first artifact allows him to go before "beginning of combat" buff abilities trigger unlike the 6". He also synergizes better with bloodcrushers than UF because you want them to charge, not sit around in 6". tl;dr UF by default. WoK with an artifact (bloodlords or 4+ one). IR in Reapers with +hit. Technically the longest streak without Tyrants is go Reapers, take 4+ strike first, win the roll and double tap out of order then double tap in order with something else. You can do it with any thirster and another unit.
  4. Smooth criminal
    I think you want a priest with sacrifice here to maximize chances of having 3 BP on turn 2. In fact it almost guarantees you 3 BPs if crushers manage to kill their original target. A thing to consider is using leftover points to have skulls+icon instead of an axe. Sure, axe is better and Gore pilgrims make skulls kinda redunant, but skulls+icon is 2 judgements you will almost always cast vs. a judgement that you may not cast at all.
  5. Smooth criminal
    I was thinking about Khorgoraths a lot too. Main issue with them is finding enough models or a replacement. Imagine this: -Khorgorath host -Skulltake battalion You now have a bloodstoker, 2x skullreapers and a big unit of khorgoraths and 2 out of 3 battleline units all in one package. Stoker buffs 1 reaper unit, has battalion buff bubble (that kinda equals to +1 to wound statistically) and he or someone else can use CP on khorgoraths. This gives you 3 buffed solid hammer units, 2 out of 3 of which reroll hit/wounds, and we haven't even took anything in addition to the battalion yet. At this point I think Khorgorath host is actually better than Goretide. It gives reapers hit rerolls against heroes/monsters which they really lack. It has a CP ability that makes Khorgoraths into our most cost-efficient hammer unit, it almost doubles their output, kinda like the double tap in Reapers host. It gives you a thirster/daemon prince general with +2 attacks and additional BPs from killing heroes (exactly what you want them to do). Meanwhile, in Goretide you get sort of useless CP ability and rerolls that get overwritten by Bloodstoker (that you already want in your mortal host).
  6. Smooth criminal
    So there are new generic CP abilities in GHB 2019 that allow to reroll 1s on hit, wound or save. I guess that's a buff to non-reapers hosts. Also allows us to have 2+ save reroll 1s Skullcrushers with only a priest around.
  7. Smooth criminal
    I think the next best replacement for BTs are Daemon princes, you're essentially getting same output for half a price. After that it's surprisingly Valkia, she's even better at cost/efficiency, but doesn't get any demon synergies. BTs pay a lot for their command abilities, that makes them subpar beatsticks.
  8. Smooth criminal
    I'm interested in each dwarf artillery being 2 separate units. 2 cannons will give you 4 blood points, that's 10 letters, half a thirster or something moving/fighting. Also cannon itself is a nice target for dumping blood sacrifice mws. I'll probably try it out at some point.
  9. Smooth criminal
    You technically can use it any amount of times, but each unit will only get 1 additional pile in since it mentions "for the first time". Now the question that they didn't FAQ is if it means first time per combat phase or first time per game, so that part is debatable. But FEC got their ability with same wording FAQed to first time per combat phase. It won't stack with tyrants ability because both mention "for the first time". It will stack with strike fist ability.
  10. Smooth criminal
    Soo, ironweld cannons are 140 now and they shoot two times, kinda like pre-nerf skullcannons. Do we care about that? Also do crew and cannon count as separate units for blood tithes?
  11. Smooth criminal
    You are not wrong, but other top armies also have lucky mechanics. Terrorgheist wouldn't be so good without his 6 mws ability. Slaanesh has exploding 6s and the mws on KoS. Fyreslayers have super runes. I think only DoK and Fec have nothing at this scale. Maybe the way to go with competitive Khorne is just maximizing your chance at 6s with double tapping IR/Skarbrand/Skulltaker/Letters with +attack buffs. If the army can't perform well enough without rolling hot then go all-in on rolling hot.
  12. Smooth criminal
    It's within 12", not wholly within. Meaning 1 guy out of each teleported unit has to be within 12", rest might as well dangle across the board. And you choose the prey after deployment so you have a good chance of pulling this off unless opponent is some kind of horde.
  13. Smooth criminal
    There's a "The Boundless Hunt" battalion in Wrath&Rapture. It's currently legal in builder and costs 130pt. It needs Karanak, 1x letters, 1x doggos, 1x bloodcrushers. The ability is 'At the beginning of your hero phase Karanak and any number of units from the battalion wholly within 12" of him can teleport within 12" of Karanak's quarry and more than 9" from enemy, they can't move in subsequent movement phase'.
  14. Smooth criminal
    There's a strike first artifact in Bloodlords host. Anyway. How about this: Reapers host Karanak 2x5 doggos 1x10 letters 1x6 bloodcrushers Boundless hunt battalion 2x thirsters with artifacts 1x skarbrand Tyrants battalion Exactly 2k pts. 3 drops. The idea is that you can teleport Karanak with a unit of doggos and/or letters turn 1 in 9-12" of his prey and try to pull a charge with free rerolls. If Karanak makes it he can summon 1 additional doggo unit. At worst you're limiting opponent's move phase, at best Karanak can kill something with double tap and doggos bog down something else in combat. While that is happening you get thirsters in position. The crushers and Skarbrand are heavy hitters against big bricks. Technically you can get Bloodlords host instead and give one thirster +8" move (trait+artifact) with charge reroll and have him join the alpha, but double tap is probably better.
  15. Smooth criminal
    I think you just roll with tyrant list having some very bad matchups and hope to not play against them. You can protect 1 thirster with doppelganer or ragged cloak, you can't protect all three, especially if one is Skarbrand. Technically you can do 1 strike first artifact, 1 cloak, 1 4+ strike first (or just hide him) and then you're set against melee at least. Opposing cloak/strike first still wrecks you on opponent's turn, but that's the game now, the guy with the turn does monster smash first, it's not like they can stop you on your turn either. The only doable thing here is to go 2 drop (tyrants+something, pilgrims/dark feast for priest probably) and give turn 1 to opponent so you can smash him first. And then double turn to repeat. That's it, that's the plan to win: go second, roll double turn, hope they can't shoot to punish you for it. Actually since we're all in on going second plan now maybe it's worth it to ditch tyrants and play the 1 drop demon battalion. You can pick fight order with UF's ability anyway on your turn (and give our guys strike first stuff). No priests in that case though.
  16. Smooth criminal
    6" pile-in requires some practice though. It doesn't prevent opponent from fighting altogether. If he's fighting something else he can still pile-in into your 6" dude with a bit of placement and a long reach weapon. It also burns through CP very fast. It's our best weapon against the meta, but it's nowhere near a nobrainer free win. What I do like about it the most is that you can have pseudo-first strike without commiting to Bloodlords host since other hosts have more useful abilities. I think thirsters are great hero hunters (which also earns BPs fast), good mobility option and that's all they are good at. They lack proper damage output to beat bricky units. They need a solid hammer unit to do that for them.
  17. Smooth criminal
    I think robbing opponent of their turn to fight is the major issue. By itself 1 CP for another pile-in is a fair trade I think, Aos does need some resource management. If all CP do is reroll charges and ignore morale that's not much of a resource management. Now when stuff like "attack first", "attack with 4 thirsters one after another", "all my dudes attack first", "all your dudes attack last" etc. come into play the only interactivity AoS ever had gets thrown out the window and we're playing a melee version of 40k aka Me roll turn me alpha strike: the game. I want to see a "no chain pile-in" clause in ghb 2019. It won't happen though and even if they stop printing new books with the chain pile-in (they won't) the existing mass is enough to ruin the game.
  18. Smooth criminal
    3pt or 4pt unit summons for objective grabs. In reapers host they also make nice fire and forget kamikadze unit that comes out of nowhere, charges with a free reroll and then doubletaps for bunch of attacks and dies on backswing. 3pt move is also nice since it gets a unit to somewhere it wouldn't normally be able to get, it's kind of a pseudo summon. 4pt fight I don't use much since it requires a really big unit unit to take advantage of. For example, I don't think it's worth it to use on thirster or any min size unit. Better to summon, you'll get same amount of hurt from summoned unit 2pt spell cancel is situational but when it's good it's really good. Against spell heavy armies they can start killing your stuff in hero phase and give you tithes that you use to save other stuff.
  19. Smooth criminal
    So we can now ally FEC & Fyreslayers except runefathers and dragons/gheists. All usual ally limitations apply and you pay 1 CP turn 1 for it. Thoughts? Having a deepstrikeable brick of dwarves is something we can't have normally. And they shoot. From FEC I'm interested in Crypt flayers. They are fast and don't need other FEC stuff to work, they cost 160pt which isn't a very occupied spot in Khorne. The ghoul king can be used to cast cogs and summon a chaff unit (yay blood points) for objective grabs.
  20. Smooth criminal
    Meh. I feel like the Keeper and Epitome are super pushed, everything else they have is weak. And their summoning is game breakingly good. Technically letters&reapers also have exploding 6s, except our 6s explode into mws. Slaanesh is fast, but they are also 5+ across the board. I have no idea how they play against any competent shooting with their reliance on heroes. The only place where Khorne got really screwed in relation to other gods is hard split between mortals and demons. Feels like they should be part of same list, but they have very little synergy.
  21. Smooth criminal
    Personally I think priest is a must have, even more so than bloodsecrator in general (of course you also need bloodsecrator because of letter brick). That is if you have a shrine model. Without shrine you may drop him. Out of those 2 lists I would pick the first one (provided you have shrine), but swap reavers+10pt for a bloodmaster. Your letter brick needs a hero near it all the time for locus and battleshock ignore CP ability. I would try to go for Tyrants + Murderhost so you have an artifact for all you thirsters and a low drop count. Don't see how it's possible to fit it here without dropping either priest or letters to 20 though.
  22. Smooth criminal
    Yeah. Mongers seem very efficient stat-wise. I think they are our best unit to use in a big brick. 10 dudes is a 30 wounds for 280pt that attack with long reach. I think the bloodforged battalion is very underrated. Not for the ability, but for the unit composition. You slap Skarr (who btw is our best mobility option for objective grabs) on top and run your 2x10 warriors 2x10 mongers forward to sit on objectives and what's opponent gonna do against that? It's a lot of wounds and attacks fighting in 2 rows with rows being independent units and they all do damage on death. It's also pretty cheap compared to our other compositions so you can have some harder hitting hammer units behind that ready to commit whenever.
  23. Smooth criminal
    Yeah, I think dogs and warriors currently make better frontline than letters. Letters are good second line hammer unit and a good summon.
  24. Smooth criminal
    One sure counter is UF thirster with his CP ability to pile-in from 6". During your turn you position yourself between 3" and 6" from gheist, now it can't fight before you smash it. In Reapers host you can double fight consecutively before the gheist goes. Second is demon artifact in Bloodlords that makes you fight first and common artifact that makes you fight first on 4+. Again during your turn. No idea how pure mortals do it. Maybe gheist can't chew through slaughterborn skullreapers well enough. They have 2 dudes that pile-in from 8", but they are kinda weak to kill a gheist and can't double fight. Another way is skullcrusher/bloodcrusher charge on mw ability, happens before combat. Will be kinda hard to charge gheist before it charges you though. Priests's pull ability should help.
  25. Smooth criminal
    I have no GW response, but RAW it's "on 6s to wound" and the "don't make wound roll" after you made the roll already is nonsense rules-wise, so we have to live with "mws on 6 to wound" until they maybe update faq.
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