Kodos der Henker

wait for the new book, impossible to say what units are a must or auto-include

and even this is not a good example for it the told story is that they followed the usual design process: the models is designed and produced, write the background to fit the model, write rules that fit the background, decide on points, done but the management wanted that the points are low enough so people can fit 3 in a standard sized army, but they never got a chance to adjust the rules to compensate Skaven in 7th are another example, were Cavatore told he was asked to write the army book, so he made a quick draft for how he imagined the army to look like according to the fluff, and if this would be ok as a starting point, and his draft went straight to the printer without any adjustments and from all we have heard later, the workflow is still the same except that the draft is given to playtester at some point, but not the final rules

the argument is a very simple one, GW needs to be clear here and don't let it be on the players to decide for the pro side, I have Stormcast with the wong weapons, mainly because I ended with 2 many core box models, so my Liberator with two-handed hammer also has a shield should not be a problem, but if my opponent think it is one it want me to remove it, I will insist that he uses the subfaction matching the colours he painted his army

for reference only: PS: capitalism is evil.....

there is a difference between proxy, count as, and conversion. a different head on a model is a conversion, a different model with the right equipment is count as, and using an empty base (or a fish can) is a proxy different colours are "count as" not a proxy, using Halflings instead of Dwarfs, is count as not a proxy Proxies should always be asked for and are ok if you want to test something before you buy it Count as should never be a problem, not how GW constantly changes their games

I guess I am the only one to know the reference/memes for "evil GW" GW is a company that wants to make money, not a company run by gamers who play their own games yet by thinking that the management decides on rules/FAQ to increase profit gives them way to much credit and assume they know enough about the game to make those changes same going a level lower on the designer level, they are not good enough to make a FAQ that covers the obvious questions asked by the community a week prior release, yet we assume they are good enough to think around 3 corners and play 4D underwater chess to increase sales with specific design choices

you give evil GW way too much credits here, they don't even try to get that far when writing rules the same way as new models are always better than old ones (they are not) to sell more, while in reality they just are not able to do better even if they try the idea behind was an "emergency balance batch" in 40k because the Legion that no one really played except those that liked the fluff, got really overpowered rules, play tester told this GW and were ignored, people told them after release and were ignored, and instead of trying to fix the problem (and admit that mistakes were made), their solution was that only people who use the right colours are allowed to play with the OP faction that people are supposed to buy more would be a side effect, their main goal is that everyone stops playing the OP stuff so they don't need to admit that they were wrong and the problem is solved that we see now the same here is more a hint that they messed up something with the Subfaction rules and are not going to fix it anytime soon and not to try to increase sales intentionally (from their point of view, everyone already buys their stuff because they like the models, not because there are special rules that make some modes/factions better than others)

exactly if this would be a Skirmish game with 10-20 models or better said 100-200€ per army that is released as full game (not just core rules with armies change over time but everything at once) we could talk about that specific colours are bound to specific rules (remembering the 5th Edition dragon rules were the actual colour of the model decided on which effect the breath attack had) yet with a game that cost 800 per army in same cases and there is no guarantee that the list you start is still there in 6 months, trying to enforce this and calling people who do not "that guy" is something the community should not only ignore, but calling out to GW that this is bad move from their side has nothing do to with our hobby

don't think it is, otherwise they would have done something against Battlescribe already, which is the main source for rules for a lot of 40k players who don't want to buy the books this move is to get people into their Warhammer+ Community and subscription model, so they stop searching for content outside the GW Bubble they don't, it was already written on Warhammer Community that the current AoS App system is not compatible with the new system and therefore will be replaced

the idea behind is a very simple one, GW wants you to take the army because of the background and not because of the rules so you don't care about how good or bad that specific sub faction is because you play it anyway or different reasons there was also once hints in the FAQ that if GW made one sub faction stronger, you should not be "that guy" and play it (hard time for those who played it before the change because of the fluff, and sometimes resulting in people put the old army on the shelf to avoid the hate in the stores) this is the reason why we see ot again, people might have started an Anvil army because it was strong and painted it that way, to avoid now that everyone starts to play something else that is now strong, they put the "don't be that guy and play to win" in the FAQ

8th Edition core rules were similar made as the first AoS rules, 4 pages and be done so yes, as I played 40k during that time (and AoS2 had the better rules set of those 2 games), the bar is set very low here

well, that is a very low bar to hit, the previous "4 page rules" + Errata is not something you have trouble to beat if you try

with that point, buying just the models and play a different game will be the better option always losing because you just bought the models you liked and don't want to buy more is not a good option either so kind of the middle buy the good stuff that you like, don't spam and hope the nerfhammer only hit you once per edition

pre-order in August, going by with other books this means release is first week of September

well, so far for the argument that GW is back to normal and we will get the SCE battletome and all new miniatures in july

for supported 40k tournaments, they have such rules for Marines as well they kind of have to say that the rules is in place (because it is an official GW tournament) but everyone is ignoring it with "don't ask, don't tell" sometimes I wish the community would ignore other FAQ/Errata that are just stupid as well but it is kind of strange as once you to play it word by word even if everyone agrees it is stupid, while on another stupid ruling you are "that guy" if you do (it is just hard to guess sometimes which one you should ignore) and the rules for colour shemes, GW tries now for 2 and a half Editions to enforce it for Space Marines and no one cares

never used the original Exorcist, just the old metal Whirlwind launcher Marine players wanted to get rid of on an Immolater

No problem with hate towards GW, they make enough "mistakes" to deserve it Hate against AoS is something different as there are those who really hate it for what it is as they want to play something else but for reasons cannot or want not do it so are pissed because they cannot play at all Than there are those who fear GW will do the same to AoS as to WHFB as soon as the community was milked enough and having the 3rd re-work of the Poster Boy faction within a short timeframe does not help with this either So here people are much more careful what they buy because they don't know if the purchase today is still useable tomorrow (and this is a big driving factor for 40k, to know that Marines will still be there and you will find people to play) So back to the mistakes from GW, not telling enough details about the new factions in the box hinders sales, because this is not 40k were people know what to expect from Marines and buy the box blind

we don't know how many copies GW need to sell to make the money back, and if it sells out or not depends on the number of copies made and the demand but the reason why people say bad pre-order sales means failed product comes from that statements and the only indication we have is something is selling well is if it sells out or not and storage space is expensive and you don't want to have stuff on stock for too long, specially for a limited release product (hence why some FLGS already undercut the price on pre-order) hence why we assume GW won't produce much more than they expect selling with the release

as a store manager once told me, the HQ does not care how much money he makes with veterans buying units, the only measure if his store was doing well or not was the number of Starter Boxes sold, nothing else years back we got from GW that a product not making the money back on its release weekend never will and therefore is considered a fail and yes it is better for the game to have the big starter set available for longer to get more new players in yet stock holders might have a different point of view and not selling out in minutes might tell them it was overproduced but this also takes over to other companies were people being used to GW argue a product failed because it took 30 minutes for the special edition to sell out

of course this is subjective, but comparing late AoS 2 with late 8th 40k, AoS was by far the better game and the changes needed are within the factions rules, not with the core rules and most people I know were still happy with the game (there were no tournaments/events here anyway for a year so no big meta changes) GW can always try to make it a better game over all, specially looking at were AoS started, yet with the main problem being the factions rules, without giving big updated to all factions in the beginning (which did not happen with the GHB) for now I don't see a lot of people looking forward to the changes but more of a "wait for the FAQ"

double post

One thing here is, for most people playing AoS this is the first ever real Edtion change they go thru and with GW changing for the sake of change they are not used to those kind of things that a new Edition is a new game were the hype comes from the fresh air a new game brings in a more boring setting Difference to 40k is, AoS 2 was the better game, so people were not fed up with the current installment of powercreep and broken rules like in 40k were people already started asking for a new Edition a year before it came because the game did not worked well any more (40k going thru the cycle of new core rules that change the game, new Codex change the way the game is played, new "balance" just comes from the fact that with different core rules other units are broken and it takes time until people get them into the game, at the point were most factions have their new book and most people have new painted armies the game itself is in the game itself is bloated and broken and people start asking for a reset) For AoS there is no big need to change everything and the most controversial feature of the game is going to stay anyway. So no hype for new rules because there was no need for them We have not seen the cycle of the game being turned "unplayable" during an Edition and players looking forward to a new game Another point is that there are again Stormcast in the Core Box does not look unusual but there are no real poster boys in AoS and unlike Space Marines were you have at least 10 factions that can use the models, there only 2 using them in AoS and not all players are looking forward to buy again an army of Stormcast after they have already 2 at home While the Launch Box is aimed at Veterans, the content is made with the 40k community in mind were Marines were always part of the 2 player box (in Fantasy it was always different factions and only Goblins have been featured twice)

the pandemic is still going and long from being over and the optimistic people come up with end of 2023 as the point were things go back to normal (as there is a raw material supply issue going on as well were the pandemic and lockdowns in all parts of the world do not help) GW is far away from being clean

there are also the regular Starter Sets for a release Slot, and to compare in 40k Marines and Necrons waited several months after the Codex hit for the last unit of the launch box to be released Starter Sets, Battledomes, units from the sets and new units I guess August/September until we see all the new stuff just because it is a lot and GW does not want to release everything within a short timeframe