[AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion]

LET THE FEAST OF BONES BEGIN!!!!!!

@KramerBeat you to it lad. But you were right! An Ogor tome on its own, I don't mind at all!!!

[The Rumour Thread]

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

I initially thought the same but, and i;m not trying to rain on your parade because they could easily change the stye, there is no sword with two cutting edges in the Ogors range. It's part of their brutal aesthetic but again could still be a change in style. 

You could be right, and I'll admit, I do hope it's ogors, but it is entirely possible that it could be darkoath, or heck, even Warcry. I personally believe it's ogors mostly because i'm hungry for a new ogors battletome (get it? my bad that was lame...), as well as Ironjawz weapons have a different feel to them, though Im not really an ironjawz expert. At the end of the day we'll have to see, especially on 20th July for the AOS preview.  

[AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion]

7 hours ago, Kramer said:

Personally I hope (and expect) they will keep BCR and Gutbusters separate. 

The lore of BCR is well established by now and has a cool AoS hook. A magical storm chases them and they need to keep moving to outrun it. I could see them include the firebelly for a weird Yin and  Yang set up (let's be honest if a snowstorm follows you around somebody who creates some heat will be very helpful). But footslogging Ogors doesn't fit that narratively (but could be done) but more importantly model wise it doesn't work. And as they keep repeating they work Model first rules second. 

Regarding missing bodies... that's the whole BCR schtick. Super elite big boys army. Would really be a let down if they take that away. Gutbusters in the same manner should have their own playstyle that fits the model range.

Yeah they easily could... but looking at Beast of Chaos and Gloomspite Gits execution... the sub factions are cool concept but they hardly inspire like when they would have gotten a seperate ruleset. 

Of course all the above is my personal opinion/expectation. I'm hoping for a BCR update book and a brand new Ogor book and nothing in the GHB seems to make it less likely so i'm happily staying patient. 

I see where you're coming from, and admittedly, I do understand it would be unfair to those players that came to AOS specifically for Beastclaw Raiders. At the end of the day, I can't speak for their playstyle either, since I don't really play them that much (I play Gutbusters with occasional beastclaw allies). I suppose part of my longing for a combination is me having been so used to playing my beasts with my ogres back in fantasy, but that's years ago, and I know that mindset is outdated.

So, i'll just correct myself now. I just really want books for ogors in general. Doesn't need to merge them, I just would like 1)updated lore, and 2)updated rules.

I do agree about the Beasts of Chaos and Gloomspite Gitz subfaction rules being somewhat meh in their execution, that's actually a legitimate concern which would make a battletome specific to Beastclaw raiders/gutbusters more... meaty (heh). Gitz subfaction rules literally only come up with the moon up, while beasts of chaos ones are actually kinda minor. I do find the Skaven ones more enjoyable tho.

At the end of the day, I'll be happy to have an Ogors book of any kind. Honestly. I just wanna see how they've been doing, what with all the Soul Wars and all that. And having a fully supported army would be nice.

[AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion]

I've been an Ogre Kingdoms player for, well, a really long time.
 

What that has me curious is the way Ogors have NEVER got allegiance abilities whatsoever, but are mentioned a lot in other books. Gloomspite Gitz goes into finer points of what Destruction factions are about, including beastclaws, while other books occasionally mention Ogors quite explicitly. Generally, I'm very sure the Gutbusters are sticking around, but we have to see what will happen. Personally, I do believe that Gutbusters would get merged with Beastclaws, as well as Maneaters and Firebellies, mostly because it would 1)sell more since we'd have no ally restrictions to keep both sides apart, especially with all us old timer ogre kingdoms players, and 2)solve issues for beastclaws, which is having cheap bodies. I'm thinking about this because of the skaven release. 1 plastic model, theen a bunch of spells and terrain, but ALL thee clans get merged. Personally, I would NOT mind if they didn't update all the kits (If they did then yay), but I mainly just want a book in general. Especially one to combine all the Ogors into a single allegiance, Skaven style.  The Masterclan consists of 2 models and they still got an allegiance ability, so Firebellies can get that treatment.

Sorry for the long rant, just that my stomach's still empty, and I'm hungry for a new tome... 

[The Rumour Thread]

Hey guys, I just realized that recent rumor engine looks really similar to this guy's blade...

Could that mean something? I also realized the rumor engine looks similar to my Gutbusters Gutlord (Irongut unit leader) big sword...

[AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion]

My Dawi friends, 

though I am a (unwilling) servant of Khorne, take heart, as I bring a gift! 

This channel is one of my favorites ever (I’m a huge Lord of the rings fan), and I thought you guys might like this song: 

Enjoy, for When The Hammer Falls, your time shall come! 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

20 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Yeah, I think  dogs and warriors currently make better frontline than letters. Letters are good second line hammer unit and a good summon.

Agree with this. The Bloodletters may not be able to take a charge as well as a blood warrior, but imo, compared to reavers, Bloodletters are far better as a countercharge unit/second line. They’ve still got decent damage, albeit somewhat random. 

20 hours ago, Battlefury said:

@Kaz@ledha

I see I do have a lot to learn

Why do i think Wrathmonger are supporters? Because wqith their 5+ save I won't let them run onto an enemy unit on their own. I would always screen them away, otherwise they will get smashed very easy.
In combination with their abilities, they do support other units pretty well.

That's why I would consider them support, and not main fighters. Of course they do solid damage, so therefore they are good supporters

Yep, agreed. Wrathmongers are a dedicated glass cannon that buffs your guys. You pretty much HAVE to protect them, but they are definitely meant to get stuck in. While Sneaky snufflers for Gitz sit around sniffing and getting high on mushrooms, Wrathmongers want to get in the thick of it. I like them because MSUs provide blood Tithe, make amazing support, and are incredible suicide units. Sure, they only deal MWs now, unlike their previous incarnation, but that means quite a lot in Age of Ethereal Amulet VLOZD, and heck, this means that the solution to mongers isn’t as easy as “Throw cheap chaff at them”, unlike last time. 

As far as main damage is concerned, it’s same with reapers. While reapers are tougher, you’re still gonna screen and protect them. Same with mongers. 

Hence why I can foresee lists that use Bloodforged monger lists could do some work. Skullreapers are amazing, but we don’t always have to use them. 

16 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Whoops! Re-roll charges. I remember thinking that it was situationally useful (summons), just the wrong one.  Shows you how often I use my thirster. 😛 

The other khorne player at the club often uses him in his bloodthirster formation. His biggest problem is that he's slow and susceptible to alpha strikes/ just getting stabbed a bunch.

Not at all. I use the faction groups (forgot the official label) for the unique artifacts that aren't bound to anything but khorne.  Like I said, it felt like all my units had a natural re-roll 1. Even with armies without a lot of heroes, they typically keep them close enough to the action to proc the ability. It purely helped the blood warriors and wrathmongers, whilst also helping the skullreapers against heroes and smaller units. The command ability things are just extra bonuses to me. I only have used the goretide's ability twice ever with the new book, so I didn't really feel the loss of no khorgies.

That's fair. This list was all about the ridiculous # of skullreapers and then I decided to use the last 300pts on the thirster. If I had been building it around the thirster then I might have taken a deeper look at the daemon artifacts (I have almost no experience with our daemonic kin), but everything in the list is designed to be reasonably self sufficient if I need to just huck them at something. I figured the most reliable way to do that with the thirster was to just slap additional attacks on the guy. Plus more chances for explosions! More explosions is always best. I'd have liked to boost his hit rolls (man, would that be murderous) with a slaughter priest, but like I said, this one was about the reapers. Thinking about reducing the 10 man reapers into a priest and … something worth 80pts. Not sure how I feel about it. Thoughts?

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage imo is an amazing boi because firstly, his model is amazing. Secondly, he’s really nice to fit comfortably into a list, esp at 280. 

My only problem about stacking attacks on the Bloodthirster is that hitting on 4s is a pain, imo. Personally I feel that the more hits you can push through, the more chances for more explosions. If you want, you could keep crowncleaver and master decapitator on the Bloodthirster, just buff him with killing frenzy and voila, 7–9 attacks at 3+ to hit rerolling ones!

I like your mentality about Skullfiend tribe! it’s very interesting now that I think about it. 

As far as Skullreapers go, I’d say the sweet spot is 10-15. For 80 point models, there are quite a few nice ones. I really like the Exalted Deathbringer or Skullgrinder, but out of all of them, I’d grab a Bloodstoker to fill 80. This is because your list has got natural re-roll hits, but no natural re-roll wounds. The stoker can help with that actually. Plus w/o Goretide, the stoker helps with threat extension which is very helpful

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, Glaidos said:

In what way can you counter it? I have no experience

Yep, Unfettered Fury For Daemons. Nuff said. Insensate Rage in skullseeker could work. Wrath of Khorne is not bad, his flail hits hard against them. You know what? Just bring a Tyrants of Blood with 3 Bloodthirsters, bring lots of Flesh Hound chaff, and get moving. 

Blood Hunt is good, because you’d always see mounted TGs, who are heroes. Heck, even skullseeker host might have some merit. 

Don’t rely on charging Bloodcrushers. Terrorgheists are way too fast, we’ll never get the charge off. 

They would send each terrorgheist to butcher the chaff, then use feeding frenzy to attack our hammers behind and try to finish them. Personally, I would use 2 lines worth of flesh Hounds for this reason. 

For mortals, you’d be surprised. Blood Warriors have No  reSpite, terrorgheists have a meh 4+ save. It’s not that good. Buffed Blood Warriors can actually take on a terrorgheist, because their defensive tech isn’t that good. Wrathmongers, are as usual, amazing. Kill them, eat mortal wounds. Same with skullreapers.  Reavers are ok chaff, but can’t attack when they die. Skullcrushers are not recommended because they are a favored target for TGs due to their rend and mortal wound output. Same thing with Bloodcrushers. You’d never get a charge against a smart player. Use 2 lines of chaff to keep his monsters back so you can keep the hammers safe. 

Slaughterpriests are mortal wound batteries, they can snipe the supporting heroes, or finish off wounded beasties.  This is where a Skullgrinder or exalted Deathbringer will shine. The flesh eaters have little ways to snipe them, so we can pile on the damage. 

Remember, terrorgheists have a shooting attack against our bravery. It’s a huge pain, hence any way of buffing bravery is welcome, like the command trait Bloodsworn, or the Skullgrinder. 

As terorrgheists without riders are never seen, we can expect to see mounted TGs a LOT. 

Havent really played against them, but these are my tactics against them if I had to tailor to fight them specifically. 

1 hour ago, ChaosLord said:

Why doesn't anyone use Skarbrand?

Possibly because he deletes entire units with ease, which might be no fun for the opponent  . Let’s be honest, no one likes playing against a point click and delete unit, cough evocators... 

Jokes aside, Skarbrand is slow, and he’s not extremely Tanky by any means. Of course, despite this, I do think he is extremely strong in any list. Especially if you have mongers and a Bloodsecrator. Slaughter is not that great, the 4+ to hit holds it back, but the sheer attack count let’s it dish out a LOT of hurt. Carnage is the real deal. It’s the reason why you buff his attack count. Multiple chances for that sweet 6, and you can easily do 16-24 mortal wounds. It’s absolutely insane. Generally, Skarbrand requires you to play smart. Get into combat? He gets to activate Skarbrand’s rage. After that, he’ll likely be banged up, so Carnage and Slaughter will be at full power. But you HAVE to keep him safe. Chaff, multiple threats, it’s the reason why I think a Tyrantsof Blood with Flesh Hounds can use skarbrnad. It’s hard to target that angry daemon when there’s literally 3 more of them in your face. 

55 minutes ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I done good damage with Skullgrinder, but yes, I end up depeding on my opponent coming to fight. Never actually done 3 Slaughterpriest, normaly play 2 that do good work. But might be true that I don't get much extra out of the last one, opponent might just keep important stuff away from the Altar.

Already have Bloodsecrator and the extra CP is from battalion.

A real hammer instead of the Skullgrinder might be a good idea, Think I will drop a few things and go Insensate Rate or Skarbrand

Ahhhh my bad, didn’t read properly. If you do drop the Skullgrinder and Slaughterpriest, that’s 180. You could *possibly* fit an Insensate Rage if you drop another priest, but that would reduce your total priest count by quite a lot. However, I do like the Bloodthirster. And if you like, play a Skullfiend tribe and give him both command traits and artifact. If you’re lucky Ourtageous Carnage can kill multiple heroes, and it works with Master Decapitator if I’m not mistaken. Of course, bring a killing frenzy priest to buff an Insensate Rage, and give him Crowncleaver to maximize his fishing for sixes. 

If you do try 3 Priests, I actually am interested to see how it goes.  

But the Skullgrinder is still a very good option. In fact, I’m gonna try a Red Headsmen battalion this weekend, using blood bind to force enemy heroes closer to my grinder. The Skullgrinder is nice now because he has a VERY high damage output, and that bravery buff is very useful, especially because it stacks with Icon Bearers. One fun interaction: If you take Mighty lord of Khorne with the bloodsworn Command Trait, a skullgrinder and Icon Bearers, your blood Warriors and Bloodreavers would be getting about 9+1+1=11 bravery, which seems very helpful for our MSU units to never run away. 

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, Kelsicle said:

 

New rumour engine! Surely seraphon?

 

Generally, considering the scales rumor Engine we saw a long time ago, it’s either some sort of aelf dragon or a seraphon model. Either way, at least it’s definite that Order will get some scalies. 

1 hour ago, Dr Ben said:

I'm pretty sure it was reported from warhammer fest that there is at least 1 more destruction battletome due this year. I had noticed a couple of the ogre references but hadn't put them all together like that. A Skaven or gits style ogre book would make sense, but there isn't the diversity of either of those factions with the existing ranges

Also now slaanesh is out they obviously need more depravity points! 

Generally, I’ve a feeling that Beastclaw raiders, aleguzzlers and gutbusters might get rolled together, and get 1 new model, 1 terrain, 1 endless spell. As much as I’d absolutely LOVE Gitz treatment, it’s unlikely to happen. 

The interesting thing was that Gutbusters never got an allegiance ability in general’s handbook. And since GW was saying they want to update “current factions”, stuff like Flesh Eaters, Fyreslayers, Brayherd, etc, it is possible that Gutbusters get something completely brand new. So I haven’t give up on them yet! 

Besides, some conversions using that sweet traitor command chaos Ogor, an iron golems chaos Ogor, and the 40K Bullgryns would look amazing in an AOS Ogor army. And I’ve still got some hordes Everblight ogrun models (as you can see, I like anything starting with “og”)

44 minutes ago, madmac said:

I think Gutbusters will get some plastic hero kits, it's something they badly need (Literally 100% of their hero options and all Maneaters are fincast) and they've been teasing Ogors a long time to just roll out a book and endless spells, IMO.

 

Tbh there’s a LOT that gutbusters need. Maneaters need plastic models, badly. Tyrants and Butchers need legit plastic kits, especially for a cauldron butcher. Firebellies are unlikely to get it, tbh, which is fine imo. The finecast model is still pretty nice. 

[The Rumour Thread]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/21/tales-of-forbidden-power-cursed-waters/

ALSO new fiction! Looks awesome! 

Im extremely sure there’s some new faction under the depths... (cough Luthor Harkon mortarch of the abyss) 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

10 hours ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I'm building my second set of Skullreapers at the moment and been looking at the Slaughterborn Battalion. Reducing rend by 1 on Blood Warriors and Skullreapers sounds pretty nice.

This is the list I come up with so far. I'm mostly split on the Slaughterhost right now, maybe I should be going Goretide for better movement. But going +2 attacks on both Skullgrinder and Exalted Deathbringer will bring a surpricing amount of punch many might not see coming (7 x 3+, 2+ -1, 3 / 9 x 4+, 3+, -1, 2). While 3 Slaughterpriest will hopefully make a deathzone around the Skull Altar.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe

Leaders
Skullgrinder (80)
- General
- Trait: Master Decapitator 
- Artefact: Crowncleaver 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer 

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

Between the Slaughterhost, think it this way. Do you want something more beneficial for the entire army as a whole, or something more beneficial for a your single heroes? 

My problem with using a Skullgrinder AND an exalted Deathbringer then giving them damage artifacts is that they are squishy. Straight out. And while yes, they do a LOT, there’s still that chance to whiff. I really found myself preferring to rely on my non-hero stuff like warriors or reapers to deal damage, because they have a lot more force multiplying potential. 

Another thing to note, is speed. A Bloodthirster is fine to focus on damage because he has the speed to go after the right target. But Skullgrinder and exalted DB are slow. I find them best used as countercharge units to either deter charges, or punish an over-aggressive enemy. 

I understand Exalted DB is a must for Slaughterborn, though I’d personally trade the grinder for a stoker. Still up to you though, I can see the value of a grinder. I’d however focus on either artifacts that boost his durability, or a support artifact like Talisman. 

You don’t really need the extra CP. it’s very nice, but Khorne isn’t very Command point hungry, unlike armies like Gloomspite. While armies like the Gitz do NOT want their boys running off the table, we don’t mind as much due to MSUs and Blood Tithe. 

For Slaughterpriests, I do feel 3 is a little too many. 

If you removed 1 CP, 1 Slaughterpriest, you get 160 points, and can get 1 Bloodsecrator who imo, would contribute quite a lot as a force multiplier. And if you do run Goretide, pick the Bloodsecrator as general and give him the torc. He’s quite durable, and the command trait is very nice on him. 

Also, why Resanguination on a Priest? Your heroes are too squishy to survive, so the Heal might not make a difference. I’d recommend Blood sacrifice. The ability to, at the start of the battle round, instantly get Blood tithe is amazing. I seriously hope this doesn’t get FAQed (like the skull Cannon... .___.)

Just some advice from a fellow skull Collecting maniac! Don’t want you to suffer disappointments in your games. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Alright battlereport time. Only got one in, but it was against slaanesh again. I walked into this expecting to get enthralled and destroyed, (but I was fine with that,)so that may explain my more reckless behavior. Or that I had 20 skullreapers that were going to ruin someone's day. Take your pick. 

Scenario: Duality off Death (2 objectives, only heroes score if within 3")

The armies: 

  Hide contents

 

1980pts Khorne: Skull Fiends - 5 drops

- Slaughterborn battalion

exalted deathbringer + spear + mark of the destroyer(+2 attacks)

2X5 skullreapers

10 skullreapers

3X5 bloodwarriors - fists

- Bloodthirster of insensate rage  + general + crowncleaver(+2 attacks)

- Bloodsecrator

-2X5 wrathmongers

 

????pts Slaanesh: Pretenders - 4 drops

-Keeper of Secrets + general( +d3 damage, reroll attacks(but he never used it, so I might misremember that) + +2 attack artifact

- Keeper of secrets + heal d3 wounds in the hero phase artifact

- Epitome of slaanesh (twins + mirror hero)

- That mirror endless spell

-Daemonette Battalion ( I might be misremembering their #s here, but this matched up best with what I remember)

30 daemonettes

40 daemonettes

40 daaemonettes

 

Terrain: A very large church (impassable/have to climb) occupied the center of the board with a forest in the center of my board and a hill on his center.  Two towers sat on either edge of the board, limiting our space.  Further hemming us in was rocks and various ensundry trees sitting by the corners of the church. The overall result was that it felt like two separate arenas to fight over the 2 objectives, while the church made a larger arena that encompassed the others. The objectives were on the middle line about 4-5 inches away from the church sides.

Khorne Deployment: Left :  blood warriors in front, bloodsecrator next to them on the line. Skull reapers in the second rank and mongers in the 3rd. Center :  Bloodthirster awkwardly seeing if he needed to go and grab either objective ( a certain death sentence with his base size) Right : 2 blood warriors shielding their kin in front with the exalted (the heroes on both sides sat closer to center). The big block of skullreapers huddled around the hero close to the warriors, the smaller unit grabbed the furthest right side behind the other warriors. Mongers sat behind the lot of them. The altar was choking up my right hand deployment zone further.

Slaanesh deployment: Center :  Scenery on the hill looking thematic. General sat behind it waiting to see what happened. 30 block sat in front. Left: 40 block on the line, 2nd keeper lurking behind them. Right Other 40 block on the line with the epitome waiting behind near the center.

The Battle: My opponent chose for me to go first. Not overly caring about the dangers, I moved my formations up onto the objectives, using a CP to get the secrator barely onto the zone. Both heroes were close enough to their "castles" that if they got charged the hammers could avenge them. The thirster edged up to the church and glowered at the enemy icons (both of them!). Slaanesh turn and he cast the mirror in front and did 1 mortal wound on the deathbringer. Movement phase and everything ran forwards. The smallest blob hugged the church while the other two got up into my face(heroes close behind). A CP was used to allow the daemonettes to get out of the left keeper's way and  still charge in. General moved in front of the icon on the hill and watched its minions cavort. Right hand daemonettes roll a double 1 and fail the charge. He decides that the other side is more important and lets it lie. The left daemonettes get an 11 on their charge and set up a lovely runway for the keeper to come in and murder the secrator. The keeper needs a 7 to get in. He gets a 5 on the first roll and then gets a 3 on the 2nd. Oof. That was a devastating blow. Enraged the nettes pile as many as they can against the secrator but only manage 3 wound onto him and kill 4 of the 5 warriors, losing 2 to punchies. The last one attacks with the secrator and kill 5. Fully buffed and bloodthirsty the 5 skullreapers pile in and do just enough wounds to completely wipe out the daemonettes. Battleshock finishes the last blood warrior.

Turn 2 and I win the roll off. The mirror  to block my movements  and does absolutely nothing (oof) to the deathbringer. Secrator hangs back while the rest of the left flank throw themselves at the keeper while the thirster moves in to both protect the secrator and tie down the central block of daemonettes (hopefully murder them too).  The right is already about 6" away  so they shuffle forward. Smart move would have been to retreat the exalted, but I wanted to see him in action, so the entire right flank charges (except the mongers who physically could not make it in).Skullreapers get enthralled and everyone but 1 blood warrior unit and the deathbringer get tranced by the mirror (his dice finally were helping him). I went with the mongers against the keeper and did 7-8 wounds. The right hand daemonettes went next and killed 5 skullreaper between the 2 units and took 5 mortals for their trouble. 1 blood warrior took a wound and did a mortal back.  Next I went with the thirster who did 10 wounds to the center blob (no explosions) and then his keeper attacked whiffing at everything. Long story short the right hand blob gets annihilated (2 left) and the exalted gets attacked for 3 wounds from the epitome who is killed by him and a lone skullreaper (his name was forge). The skullreapers then finish the lone keeper on the left and the center blob does 1 wound to the thirster. 3 nettes are lost to battleshock. Slaanesh turn and the general stabs itself and then tries to heal but fails. He then casts arcane shield on himself before coming to reclaim the left flank. 2 heralds are summoned and 1 charges in with the general. The reapers are enraptured again and the wrathmongers get it from the herald. The general then kills the reapers and takes 8 mortal wounds in exchange (That was brutal). The thirster went next and killed another 10 with no explosions and would later suffer 3 wounds from the survivors. The general then piled in again with their command ability but only killed 3 wrathmongers (1 of whom was in range to do a mortal wound) they piled in and brought the wound count up to 12. The keeper then healed 3 wounds from the hand. 2 daemonettes fled from battleshock in center and the remaining right melted. 

I won the roll off for turn 3 and we decided to call it. Damn. That was a rough match for my opponent. He had a couple of chances to turn it around but the dice were rarely on his side. Those failed charges were devastating for him. I honestly felt bad at how one sided it was. (that feels like bragging, but I do mean it) He is rather upset at the accusations of his army being op at the club. I think that not enough of them have fought it yet for a calling. My initial feeling is that if you play careful and don't stumble into the locus, you can very easily murder them. We talked about trying to play to his strength in speed. His biggest mistake (for this scenario) was having me go first I feel. It let me se the field of engagement and start scoring, Putting pressure on him to act.

Thoughts: Skullreapers are still terrifying. Wrathmongers seem to be my anti keeper unit (like the Spanish inquisition!). No spell defense feels like running around with a target on your back. Despite 18 attacks, the thirster didn't explode at all. Still did well enough though. Not sure if worth. With all the support heroes running around the skull fiends ability felt like all my units had a natural re-roll 1. Remember that the thirster can run and charge, could be helpful. Blood warriors did alright as meatshields, still not my favorite for the job, but usable. Exalted still feels not very threatening, but the spear could be very useful against stormcast and nighthaunt types.

I have to precede this with a disclaimer: I fairly frequently fight 18 tzangor enlightened, so I need my chaff to stop 16 -19'' base move mobility. That usually means a larger surface area to catch them in the nets. So when I set up chaff I want them to stop anything and ideally die in the process. Blood tithe and now the 2nd rank hammer gets to crush the newly arrived enemy. No getting locked down by my chaff wall if I can help it.  For those who don't know about enlightened, I've had 2 of them wipe out a 5 man unit of skullreapers (the survivors of the reapers' charge). So I don't want any of them touching my hammers. To that end I've got 3 go to units as chaff. 3: The hardy gors. While I wouldn't use ally points on them, the gors from brass despoilers battalion aren't a bad choice if you're bringing it anyways. 4+ in close combat, a low bravery, and the ability to run and charge lets you put them wherever you need them and they might actually survive a turn or two (also possibly a downside). Their expense and needing the battalion (also an upside) keep them lower on the list. 2: Ungors.  Garbage save, lower bravery, and that nifty run and charge puts these guys in good stead. They're cheap too, but their 25mm bases and the inability to reduce their drops for us keep them out of the top spot. 1: The ubiquitous bloodreavers. No real armor, fairly low bravery and on 32mm bases. They are slightly faster then my hammers and have that +1 to run/charge letting them keep in or out of the way of whomever you want. Plus in a pinch you can turn them into a mini hammer. 4 -1 rend attacks go! With goretide they get boosted into the ideal platform with that speedy run and charge to tie up the enemy or a tasty blood tithe point. Their only real downsides for me are that they aren't a part of any of the battalions I want to use typically and they're a touch expensive. Not enough that I recommend they lower in points, but...

Honourable mentions: Fleshhounds : faster, hurtier, and have nice cavalry bases to get maximum blockage out of them. A bit expensive, and I don't have many of them. Chaos hounds: Really fast, garbage save, and a bravery to match. The problem is that they are allies and can never use any of your abilities. They're also higher on points than I like for chaff ( and almost too squishy, 1 goes and potentially 3 more flee).  Skullcrushers: fastish, tanky, massive bases. Put them where you want and watch the enemy bounce off. Unfortunately that applies to your guys too. Those bases are massive as well as the unit costing as much as a good hammer.

Dang! Thanks for the report! Yeah, after spending time reading the Slaanesh battletome (My mind is officially scarred), I do agree that rhey’re not that bad. In fact, they require very careful play in terms of aiming the Locus at the right target, especially because their army is in reality super fragile. 

Very interesting that you didn’t use the Khorgoraths though. Do you feel Skullfiend Tribe was a little unnecessary? 

In terms of Bloodthirsters, I feel that the Insensate Rage needs some way of buffing his hit rolls to better fish for sixes. Compared to buffing attacks, I’d admittedly prefer buffs to hit rolls, specifically, I like Killing Frenzy, Slaughterborn, or Ghyrstrike. Hitting on 3+, rerolling ones, or hitting on 4s, re-rolling everything imo is very nice. It’s true that throwing enough poop at the wall would eventually get it to stick. But personally, I focus on aiming said poop at the wall  

i’m still dumbfounded about the Insensate rage’s buff on the charge... especially after reading designers commentary. And admittedly, his command ability is very meh. 

However, I’m interested to know: how do you run and charge with him? 

Good point on Gors and Bloodreavers. And I agree about Enlightened. I’ve seen far too many enlightened leaders on discs punch WAY above their weight class. But they are super overkill on 10-man Reaver units, which is nice. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

5 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Just yesterday I was discussing with a fellow players, wich mortal heroes he & I consider to be the best and maybe most valuable.

The conclusion was pretty easy:

Valkya
Skullgrinder
Exalted DB
Slaughterpriest
Bloodstoker
Bloodsecrator

We came to that conclusion, because their output is mostly reliable and they are pretty versatile, when it comes to list building.
So we would have a fairly good amount of usable heroes / leaders to some degree. The thing is, we can only have 6 of them in a list.

The most valuable units are absolutely:

Skullreapers
Blood Warriors, but really just because of their chaffing potential
Flesh Hounds, maybe the best Battleline we got atm
Wrathmongers to a certain degree, but really more as support, they're not really main fighters anymore imo
Skullcrushers

Considering the judgements, the Axe itself seems to be the real only dealbringer.
Therefore the Altar is an auto include, of course.

In generell it seems, as we concider the choices of heroes and units, that would be benefitial imo, we got to build focused armies again. So we can not be that versatile like SCE, or other armies.
The lists are 100% gonna be "one hit wonders" again. If the enemy knows, what's gonna happen, that's it.

At the moment I am trying to build a list around those heroes. Gonna post it as soon, as I have an idea

Thanks for the write up, although I don’t really feel valkia and the Skullgrinder. Generally I prefer exalted Deathbringer to Skullgrinder, as exalted fits better into lists, and tends to have a larger impact with his command ability. In fact, I prefer aspiring DB to grinder, because he’s a cheap force multiplier. Of course, I do agree the Skullgrinder is great, especially with his buffed attack count. Just feel that aspiring Deathbringer should be on that list. 

Valkia... I have 0 clue. Haven’t really played her. I suppose she’s ok for her command ability, but her DPS is imo quite swingy. Like you said, on the charge, 6 D3 damage attacks is extremely random. Her command ability is possibly (but situationally) useful considering there’s a lot of flying units in the game. And her re-roll battleshock is meh, because if you’re taking battleshock, you’re likely gonna lose too many models for the re-roll to help, and the extra fleeing models does NOT help. 

Agree on reapers, it’s funny how a long while ago in this thread, people while saying that reapers were complete trash, and were looking into Bullgors for hammer units. 

Blood Warriors are imo a lot better now. I love No Respite, and I think that while Flesh Hounds are easily best battleline, Blood Warriors are solid competition. Difference is, blood Warriors can ward off alpha strikes, while being  more durable. It boils down to your list. Reavers are the tax, Hounds are best in daemonic rush lists, Warriors are best in mortal meat mountain lists. 

I think Wrathmongers deserve a BIT more credit though. They’re amazing. I checked out the rules, and interestingly, even if u kill them with magic or shooting, bloodfury activates so long as someone is within range. Useful. But more importantly, a mongers are good because a)Support is great thanks to range and buff and b)unlike similar support units, they don’t hit like wet noodles, those spaghetti flails are nasty stuff. Moreso with a few buffs, Bloodstoker, Korghos or Bloodsecrator come to mind. Of course, mongers like to charge for that +1 to hit (increases damage quite a lot).  

I agree on Skullcrushers wholeheartedly. Also take note, Bloodcrushers and Skullcrushers leader technically add 1 to mount’s attacks too. I think that’s how it’s worded. And in one of the battle reports earlier, Skullcrushers battleline strikes me as very interesting. Yes, the Juggerlord is a tax. But you get a 3+ save battleline (!) that has better damage than your warriors/reavers, while being less dependent on buffs. 

As far as judgements go, it’s true that at least 1 Slaughterpriest is a must. I do believe that all the judgements have their place, however, I agree with Teh sentiments that skulls can be  situational. Most of the time, they’re fine. But they are random in effectiveness. Between Icon and Axe, I actually find myself better able to fit the icon, and it does work. Of course, if possible, I try to fit the axe instead whenever I can. The axe is still amazingly good. 

I do disagree about list-building though. After reading this thread enough, I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of versatility in list building. And it’s FAR BETTER than last time. Last time, it was, “Gore Pilgrims WoK 90 Bloodletters stoker then BAM”. Literally every time. Now? Bloodthirsters of Unfettered Fury are being used competitively, we see 3-4 Bloodthirster lists, we actually see Daemon lists that have very little mortals, and on that note, we can see 100% MORTALS LISTS. Exalted deathbringers and Skullgrinder are actually being used now, like you mentioned, and they’re ACTUALLY good. In fact, as far as Battalions go, Mortal diversity is actually good. In terms of slaughterhosts, we see Goretide with lots of dudes, or Skullfiend tribe featuring lots of Khorgies. I believe we have a LOT of versatility now. Sure, eventually we might get forced to play a few specific builds, but I think it’s far better than it was before. 

And one thing to note: Our Blood tithe table is an incredible tool. Back when I was Khorne Daemonkin In 40k, I used it to react to my enemies moves. This age of Sigmar table? Is far better. We can do things that are completely unexpected. Oh, you wanna age my Bloodthirster to death? Nope you can’t do that. Oh, your massive blobs of dudes survived 2 rounds of attacks from my hammer unit? Here have another. Oh, I’m a little far away from kissing distance from that juicy enemy unit? Murderlust! I really like the fact that the rewards of the Blood tithe table are fun, useful and strong. They give us tactical flexibility. If you want a one hit wonder, i’ll Give you one.

gristlegore, terrorgheists with Ghoul King riders, all Gruesome Bite mount trait, 10 ghoul units to fill battleline and grab objectives. Charge, spam feeding frenzy, kill as much as possible. If your opponent knows what you’re  gonna bring, you’re dead because you can be tailored against. And tactical flexibility is NOT something flesh eaters get. 

Just food for thought. 

[The Rumour Thread]

Hey guys, for the Warhammer community forbidden power articles, has anyone noticed a strange abundance of Ogors? 

Firstly, the Maneaters mercenaries thingy

then all this. 

I might be delusional (read: hopeful), but I find it strange that they mentioned ironguts of all things, next to olynder and Cellie-prime. Possibly Ogors for destruction, in a Skaven style book? 

As far as Lake Lethis is concerned, i feel it’s gonna be used to launch a completely new non-Order faction, likely death, since Chaos is probably gonna be just Darkoath/Slaves to Darkness. Especially with regards to the creepy bone tentacles we saw last time on rumor engime

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

11 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Reapers of Vengeance CP ability. With mongers it will be 60 in fact.

Paying CP for a small unit of letters may seem too much, but 20 letter attacks is a good trade for 1 CP in my book.

Interesting to note. An attack buff to your Bloodletters effectively gets doubled with a Reapers. I still prefer Bloodcrushers and flesh Hounds, but i do think Bloodletters might still have a place... but they’re still too expensive right now imo

10 hours ago, kozokus said:

What I don't like about him is that he is unreliable in his attacks and his command is probably the weakest of the faction in tie with the mighty lord. It is very restrictive and command points usages are crowded. 

The good part is that he is tanky for a hero, but not as much as you might think. He still dies to anything that kills your priests. He is rightly priced for what he brings. I guess I wanted an akhelian king.

This is unfortunately true. It’s sad that our Lords of Khorne are laughably bad in the damage department. It’s kinda annoying that a Loonboss has the same damage with his little pointy Bitz as a lord of khorne’s AXE of KHORNE. 

However, I think it’s arguable that to make our Lords of Khorne competitive, we should focus on their strengths (admittedly not much). I think the Juggerlord has a solid damage output because of his axe’s ability, and his charge MWs. Added together, it allows him to do pretty good damage, further boosted by our aura attack buffs (safe to say that we would never target a lord of Khorne with our buffs).  And there’s still the Gorecleaver combo, and if we really wanted to, there’s still Hew The foe in Goretide which would let him do a LOT of damage. And the Jugger is actually decent. It’s true his command ability is meh, especially in goretide, but for Skullfiend tribe or no Slaughterhost, it’s not too bad. 

Of course, the Mighty Lord is interesting. His damage output is frankly, REALLY BAD. But I find that the extra unbind is really useful, especially when I bring one Slaughterpriest. His Command  ability is bad, but I do think we can still make use of it. It’s theoretically a saving for our command points if we can get more than one re-roll out of it. 

Furthermore, I think his Reality splitting axe is actually good. What I like is  the insta kill ability. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s a risk. Our 140 point model can possibly trade himself for more expensive models. Granted, it may not work, but your opponent might just get spooked away. In some games, I’ve seen my opponent be unwilling to commit his big guys (Verminlord warbringers, Bloodthirsters, etc.) because the mighty Lord was closeby. Giving the mighty lord a thermalrider Cloak, or even Unrivaled Battle lust increases his threat, so that invisible zoning power strikes me as something we could use. Is it competitive? Hardly. But is it usable? Possibly. Besides, I’ve managed to reality split Morathi, and that’s a very useful tool to have in our arsenal. 

So our Juggerlord is a decently durable beatstick (he still needs at least an artifact/command trait), our mighty lord feels like a support and zoning tool, where does that leave Korghos?

I, for one, believe Korghos Khul is actually viable. He’s expensive, but he turns up the zoning potential to eleven, has good damage (His Hound actually has rend, and he’s got free re rolls to hit).

Its true that their support power is not as good as, say, a Slaughterpriest (it’s not even close), their DPS is not as good as a Bloodthirster, and their durability is decidedly meh. So I think we have to focus on other aspects that our Lords of Khorne can excel in. I’m still testing our Lords of Khorne, but I’m determined to get a use out of them. 

1 minute ago, Reuben Parker said:

D6 on average is 3.5 not 4  

Battlefury is correct random damage values are bad for anything close to competitive play especially d6 which is way too swingy. The fact that two wounds can be 2 or 12 damage is a lot of variation when you already have variations from the hit and wound rolls. 

Also as we know within randomization theres grouping of results so looking at the average only helps to a certain degree. 

Yep, pretty much this. Heck, why not give a Lord of Khorne the stay of a grimwrath berserker’s axe? It’s a lot more reliable. 

Even our Bloodthirsters strike me as random. Last time, Wrath of Khorne could use Immense Power+Deathdealer to have a very reliably high damage output. But now, they can’t do that. 

Wrath of Khorne has guns to supplement his damage. Plus unbinds make him really nice utility. I feel he needs a list built around him, such as good targets for the command ability, and Blood Hunt battalion. 

Unfettered Fury imo has the lowest DPS, because his whip is a bit random. But his command and no retreat ability is his biggest strength. He needs a mostly Khorne daemon list to work with him.

Insensate rage is super swingy, but I like his high damage potential. When he spikes, it’s horrifying. Plus, he’s the cheapest. And throwing him deep in enemy lines, letting him die in a blaze of glory is a great (and funny) way to utterly mess with your opponents plans. Easiest to plug into a list, imo, since he’s a huge distraction carnifex that WILL do something if your opponent doesn’t try to stop him. 

 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

18 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I was just thinking the same. Because it is soooo similar to the old book.

 

What exact shields did you use? Would like to do it kind of the same way, because yours look awesome!

Unfortunately, it is true that Khorne not being able to summon multiple units was honestly a dumb move. Doesn’t really make sense imo. 

Anyhow, at least our Blood Tithe table is good. I found myself almost never summoning, because the Blood Tithe table has been very impactful so far. 

Also, I’m just super thankful that we actually have a diverse army roster (and that’s not even including all those slaves to Darkness and Beastmen guys), while slaanesh seriously suffered in terms of variety. Their Battalions are really few (but powerful). 

However, I do think GW is removing daemon keywords from mortal units. Hellstriders lost theirs, making me hope for guys like harbinger of decay, Tzaangor discs, pusgoyles and etc lose their daemon keywords. At least that would be consistent. 

However, when fighting Slaanesh, I can safely say it will be a difficult fight because we will be forced to play around their abilities. We wouldn’t be able to stick with our usual game plan. 

Locus of diversion is their biggest trump card. We’d had to outplay it. 

Another note: When summoning, Slaanesh is unlikely to try o fish for charges, UNLESS playing Godseekers, even so, it’s not a good chance of success without using command points for rerolls. Hence, they will most definitely try to summon onto objectives. Furthermore, because of their allegiance abilities, they’re more incentivized to summon heroes than units, because their units are too small to get the Euphoric Killers or Fiends unit bonus. They’re likely to summon heroes like either keeper of secrets or chariot heralds, because they can have a serious impact on the game (More Locus dispensers, High Damage, can generate a lot of DPs)

Furthermore, they are unable to beat us (generally) in terms of wound count. We can put down far more bodies onto the field (usually for Mortal Khorne). The Keeper of secrets/Shalaxi is a powerhouse, but can be taken out. She’s fragile, and when wounded by blood boils or wrath of Khorne or judgements, her power drops dramatically (claw damage degrades a lot). 

Their basic units, and their chariot units throw out massive numbers of attacks, making them susceptible to Gorefist blood Warriors. And high save can actually work against them. Bronzed Flesh+3 Skullcrushers unit, or bronzed flesh on Slaughterborn 5 man blood warrior unit with Gorefists can tie them down very well, and still survive the Locus of diversion thingy. 

21 hours ago, Impa said:

I think the biggest indicator for me personally to adapt all gorefists. Is essentially my warriors are just parked on objectives anyways. So goretide does it’s re roll 1s to hit for the mortals under that slaughterhost. The MW bounce is such a great mechanic. So out of the fresh batches of bloodwarriors I’m working on. I put my chips into the gorefists. 

Yep, imo Gorefists are the way to go. There are quite a lot of ways to access re-rolls to hit, like Korghos Khul, Banner of rage, Mark of the slayer, Skullfiend tribe passive, Khorne lord of Chaos, Khorne lord on daemonic mount and chaos Warshrine of Khorne. Gorefists dealing MWs are a pathetically low chance, but I actually think that Chance is quite worth. 

18 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm glad khorne has poor summoning. Look at what happened to slaanesh. I think summoning armies have a worse army on the table because they have the points to account for units you can bring in later. Look what happened to pink horrors for example. They are insanely expensive.

I do agree with this. I feel that Khorne’s points costs are not balanced around summoning. I’d say flesh-Eater courts are the biggest example of this. Their ghouls are overpriced (more ex than chainrasps, and even Bloodreavers), 3 horrors/flayers are almost as costly as 5 reapers, the big beasties (without riders!!) are almost as costly as a khorne’s Wrath Bloodthirster, and the mounted beasties are as costly as Skarbrand. Flesh-Eaters feel specifically pointed to accommodate their summoning and the feeding frenzy command abilities, because when such support is considered, these overpriced units will hit far above their weight class. 

It seems that any army with summoning will be pointed appropriately to reflect it. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:49 PM, kahadin said:

edit for length and less feeling

I agree reavers are bad and cannot hold. However I think the math has changed with refill wounds. You can get 30-40 3+ 4+ reroll -1 rend attacks for 70 points on a throw away unit. If you charge with them on your turn they should put out more than 70 points of damage. More then the used to do. 

The idea is to use them for something. All the buffs you use on them can be used on your slow skullreapers later.

edit 2: I am Not suggesting dark feast, I am suggesting that there may be a way to get use out of reavers. Right now they are useless. I use chaos warhounds to screen, they cover way more board space for only a few more points.

 

Yep, I think there’s a use for reavers, however, I’d say we just cannot use them as damage dealers. There’s a lot of opportunity cost incurred from buffing reavers, because of the many other targets that can use those buffs better. We’d have to look at what the reavers do best: the secrator losing battleshock immunity sucks because reavers have poor bravery.

Hence, large units are absolutely not viable unless you have an exalted Deathbringer or a Khorne Hero, and a ton of Command points. However, few would be willing to use command points on reavers. 

Their damage is extremely meh, and honestly, trying to get a totem within range can be hard. Once again, another reason to use MSUs, because they can fit in the Aura of any totems, and are easier to buff with stuff like whipped to fury, killing frenzy, etc. Buffing them should always be using passive buffs, like serator aura or Wrathmongers, rather than directed buffs like killing frenzy, because passive buffs should be seen as conveniently buffing the reavers, while directed buffs should be aimed at your legit damage dealers.

Reavers have a large footprint. Another big problem. However, I instead use MSUs of 10 as a useful screen against charging units. 10 32mm models can take up space quite well, and while they fold to shooting, the fact remains the enemy had to dedicate shooting to remove them. That’s shooting not aimed at your monsters, heroes and hammers. If he doesnt shoot the reavers? Grab objectives, run them in front of his hammers, engage his biggest hitters, waste their damage on overkill. Make them the biggest nuisance ever. And when they die? Blood Tithe. 

On 5/3/2019 at 3:16 AM, phizzco said:

Command points might be more worth it than magores

Imo I agree with this

 

On 5/5/2019 at 11:19 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Sorry if this has been asked before but:

If a Bloodthirster in a Tyrants of Blood battalion has the Halo of Blood, do all the other Bloodthirsters in the battalion get to strike immediately after the Halo of Blood model?  Or does just one of them get to strike immediately after the Halo of Blood model?  

As it's written, I feel like it's the first option, but that does seem super duper powerful; so I thought I'd see what others think.

Yep they can all attack after the halo of blood guy. It’s the reason why Bloodlords Tyrants of Blood can hold a candle against reapers of Vengeance tyrants, being less Command point hungry. 

You should see Tyrants of Blood in Reapers though; each Bloodthirster gets to swing, activate your command ability, and let all of them attack twice, before your opponent even moves one model. It’s a competitively viable build. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

To be fair, I agree completely with you. For those who like Reavers, that's all fine, but I can't see them as anything more as a body wall, and not a terribly effective one at that either. With the Goretide you can at least park them in annoying spots, but that's about it. Especially the lack of Battleshock Resistance is what annoys me. Basically they are the one unit who really is hurt the most by the Bloodsecrator's loss of Battleshock Immunity bubble. At 70 points per 10, I feel Bloodreavers could have gained the ability to either become Battleshock Immume at 20+ or be Battleshock Immume when in range of the Totem. Either would have made more sence as to what they do now.

So far the most competitive results I've seen still have been Tyrants of Blood Battallion and for Mortals one of the three Battalions that can include quite a lot of units. The hammer and anvil approach still seems to work the best there. While initially I wanted to add a Bloodthirster to such Mortal armies, I now see that usually it's better to invest more into either Skullreapers for the hammer or Skullcrushers for the anvil. It's neat. 

Adding Bloodreavers for me is only really done if a Battalion would require it.

 

Yep, I agree with this assessment. It's unfortunate, and the nerf to battleshock immunity with secrator only hurts the bloodreavers more... Stuff like Clanrats or Grots are perfect horde units, because of their 25mm base, and they are far more durable, thanks to their shields. Even Ungors (With shields) are tougher than Bloodreavers. Bloodreavers also suffer from a very bad statline. The only thing worth consideration is their Meatripper axes, for the rend. Even then, to make them viable requires a LOT of work and buffing. Killing Frenzy, Whipped to Fury, Bloodsecrator, Warshrine, all of this would make a reaver blob scary, but then, they're gonna die super fast, wasting all those buffs. And Blood Warriors exist, who are more durable, and No Respite means one can't simply alpha strike them off the table.

On that note, @Killaxwhat are your current thoughts on Skullcrushers? Last time, like a while back, I remember you felt Skullcrushers were too expensive for their points. If you use them as an anvil, do you use them as a 6 model unit, or 3 models in a unit? Sorry for the random question, just curious because of your change in opinion.

However, despite how much Bloodreavers are bad, they're still nice to have in battalions. @kahadinfeel free to use them in a double Dark Feast list, it might be interesting to see what happens if you've got 80+ bloodreavers bearing down on someone. While they die fast, they can be played MSU to rack up blood tithe, and buffed via aura abilities (Dark feast bonus, secrator, aspiring deathbringer, etc). Having double Bloodstokers would do wonders to ensure as many reavers have the whipped buff as possible.

Even so, I still feel Bloodreavers should a bit cheaper.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Question: If playing a (mostly) mortal Khorne list, and you wanted to fit a Bloodthirster, would you go for Skarbrand, an Insensate Rage or a wrath of Khorne? 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

10 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

By Unfettered Fury you mean using the pile-in 6" ability to get around first strike? That's cool, I missed that. Damn, pile in 6" on Skarbrand into double fight for CP seems like a blowout.

I guess you can also use Khul as a cheaper way to do this and try to fisht for instakill.

Yep! It makes Unfettered Fury a very solid choice now. In addition, his new whip rule that prevents retreating makes him a very interesting proposition. The unfettered fury works best in a Daemon focused army, where his command ability has the most effect. In fact, there’s a cool interaction you can do here: Run ALL your daemon units that can be caught by the Unfettered fury’s bubble, but run such that you are within 6 inches of the enemy. In charge phase, don’t charge. During combat phase, pile in and attack. It works against Slaanesh, fec and idoneth. 

HOWEVER. This may eventually get errata’d, and knowing GW, if this trick is used enough in reapers of Vengeance tyrants lists it probably will. 

9 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

DoK are still everyone's boogy man and FEC needs a point change on big bat riders.

I think the trick to beat either is the same things that work against other opponents, forgo summoning, use either Apocalyptic Frenzy or the  after you die Blood Tithe boons. 

I have a match up with DoK this week so ill report back with how that goes.

Interestingly, FEC’s bat riders are very expensive. They’re literally 400. Same as Skarbrand. In fact, FEC in general are very expensive points wise to make up for their summoning. 

Personally, I do feel it’s a problem of terrorgheists. Literally just terrorgheists. Last time, their wound roll of 6 did mortal wounds, until GW buffed it. And to make matters worse, they introduced that mount trait (Gruesome Bite)which re rolls  hits on bite attacks. Combine that with archregent/Ghoul king attack buffs, then feeding frenzy and you have a ridiculous hammer that can legitimately deal 50+ wounds in total. 

HOWEVER. For countering FEC, I’m not gonna repeat myself about Unfettered Fury, or Tyrants of Blood or reapers of Vengeance .  

What I will emphasise is this: FEC are super reliant on spells from the abhorrants, while their troops are super reliant on heroes to survive and deal damage. Our ability to deny magic is a huge problem for them. 

Its one thing that’s going for us that Daughters of khaine probably hate about us. They have to cast mind razor, but we just need to pray and we’re fine. These factions that are reliant on magic suffer quite a fair bit against Nagash and Arkhan(+3 unbind/cast anyone?), but we’re not as bad since our prayers can’t get denied. Our judgements can’t get thrown back at us. 

One thing I like is our mortal wound output. Our Slaughterpriests, if using offensive judgements like axe, combined with blood boils, can severely knock down big guys like terrorgheists. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, Darksteve said:

You can do hit on 3s rr1s bullgors with full wound reroll once with brass depoilers.vonsidering they can get 4 great axe attackes per model and 4 horn attacks per model with 6s to wound doing mortals in addition it seems pretty good.

Yeah the Brass Despoilers focusing on Bullgors is actually terrifying. Bullgors are meh in Beasts of Chaos, but Khorne fixes a lot of their problems (low attack count, poor hit rolls). They hit EXTRMELEY HARD with some buffs factored in. 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

4 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm going to start seeing if there is something we can make that is comparable to witch elves using blood stokers.

I don't want to try with reavers as they are bigger bases and worse stats than witch elves.

Blood warriors might do the trick as they are more durable and get glaives. They are pretty comprable and man for man you can get the same attacks on them... But they cost twice as much as witch elves, so half the attacks for the points (you also pay a lot to get 4a warriors) and the bigger bases.

Not sure if it can really be done, but I'm going to start thinking about it, then start playing it and see how it goes. If anyone gets some good ideas, please let me know so I can try them. 

edit: I just recognized we get reroll all hits from the warshrine and reroll all wounds from the stoker. This seems pretty key and important. I bet it will hype up mortals in ways I don't understand yet. 

That said it only has an effect on mortals. So no beastmen nor demons. Refill hit bulgors would be nice though.

Don’t forget Blood Warriors have no respite, so killing them might technically cause them to attack twice (if you attacked with them earlier). 

Once again, Blood Tithe seems stronger than daemon summoning, especially considering relentless fury for Blood warriors. 

And yeah: Warshrine+Stoker is a huge increase to blood warrior damage. Then factor stuff like mongers and secrator to further increase that damage.  

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

8 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Off topic a little, but does the community have any clues/feelings for when or if Slaves to Darkness will be updated? I feel like that update will be big for Khorne.

My mortal lists seem to lack options in terms of a true hammer unit. Skullreapers are good board control but slow and Manti-lord is good but is close to BT range. BT's work okay in mortal lists, but if you run Goretide you really are losing the huge buff from Reapers. 

Possibly either at warhammer fest, or in June. 

Goretide has a somewhat different playstyle from reapers. With reapers your win condition is getting your Bloodthirsters into combat with your desired targets, and leveraging your command ability and Tyrants of Blood to either severely cripple or destroy the target before they hit back. 

I believe this is why reapers tyrants of Blood and Blood Hunt is so good, wrath of Khorne in Blood Hunt snipes extremely well, and his command ability can be used to buff Skarbrand or Insensate Rage, while unfettered fury can effectively allow all our Bloodthirsters to Strike first, so long as they are within 6 inches of the enemy. It’s our answer to Idoneth deepkin always strike first, gristlegore, and Slaanesh  

1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

What out of two judgements would you pick for general meta?

 

Also what's our answer to strike first combat monsters? Seems like more and more of those around. We can bring strike first thirster, but he's a bit slower than AGK/KoS, which makes him more likely to get charged by them. The reaper/monger abilities seem easy to get around with positioning, do we just rely on blood warriors and 6 bp reward to kill them? Focus fire them with slaughterpriests? Doesn't seem like enough mortal output, needs cannons or something on top, maybe a WoK.

In almsot all my lists I bring 2 Slaughterpriests and 2 judgements: usually wrath axe and hexgorger. The Bleeding Icon is reliable damage, and easier to summon than axe, but the debuff has been invaluable. Hexgorgers are almost always useful for me: Magic is quite common, and even if it isn’t: The skulls can block space, while being easy to summon. 

For always Strike first dudes, the Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster feels like our best threat; Blood Lords only affects one of our Bloodthirsters. HOWEVER: Tyrants of Blood with either Unfettered fury or Blood Lords, seems best. 

I think that the reapers of Vengeance tyrants/Blood Hunt List is our best bet, with all the Bloodthirsters. All of them can pile in and attack twice, and hit very hard. 

14 minutes ago, kahadin said:

Has anyone tried playing multiple bloodstokers? I feel like they basically are a kind of death hag now passing out witchrew to the troops. I feel like there is probably some way to amp up a unit kind of like DoK since we have fat death hags.

Considering how cheap our Bloodstoker are, I do think taking 2 in a Mortal Khorne army is very good, especially with the current approach of taking multiple hammers (2-3 units of Skullreapers, 2 units of mongers, etc.) 

Furthermore, they synergies with ALL mortal Khorne units, thus charging chaos knights or gorebeast Chariots are even stronger with the stoker. 

I foresee 2 Bloodstokers becoming a staple in competitive Khorne mortals, even in Goretide lists. 

[The Rumour Thread]

38 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

I see 5-7 probable Battletomes coming between now and 2020 : 

Sylvaneth ; Kharadron ; Ironjawz (with or without Bonesplitterz ?) ; Disciples of Tzeentch - and of course Slaves to Darkness (Warriors of Chaos + Darkoath + Everchosen). ... Maaaaybe Maggotkin of Nurgle too (but they were created with AOS2 in mind so)

There is 4-5 other "legacy" armies yet in need of an update :

Gutbusters (with or without Beastclaw Riders ?) ;  Freeguild and Co. (College, Ironweld, etc.) ; Dispossessed ; Aelves (with or without Wanderers ?) - I hope Devoted Of Sigmar becomes a proper AOS faction like Gloomspite Gitz or Daughters of Khaine.

And there is 3-6 fluff-rumored armies that could come someday : 

Shadow Aelves (Malerion) ; Light Aelves (Tyrion & Teclis) ; Grotbag Scuttlers ; a new Death army ? ; a new Duardin united / Golem race from Chamon ? And last but not least, a controversial Slaanesh Mortal release.

---

With WARCRY and Forbidden Power coming soon, and probably WH Underworlds Season 3 starting this autumn, there's plenty of things that could be previewed. The last SCE podcasts also hinted that a proper AOS Warhammer Quest was in the work... BRING. IT. ON. 

.... And that's not counting third party boxed games like AOS Munchkin, video games and the AOS RPG by Cubicle7... 

When I was looking at the recent releases, I noticed that it seems GW focuses on the armies in general’s handbook. 

Nighthaunt: Technically they had allegiance abilities a LONG time ago

Beasts of chaos: the second,  mostly just Brayherd had an ability

Skaven (Pestilens and Skye’s were in the handbook)

flesh eater courts (only had allegiance abilities in book)

same wih fyreslayers

and now hedonites of Slaanesh, are technically the Hosts of Slaanesh, but rebranded, and they also had allegiance abilities in book

sylvaneth is a bit different having their allegiance stuff in their book, it gives me reason to believe beastclaws and bonesplitterz will get updates eventually, along with Ironjawz and Seraphon, then maybe kharadrons. 

I wonder if the Dispossessed, Darkling covens, wanderers and free people’s will get books similar to Skaven

While armies that never had allegiance abilities (all of high aelves, the gutbusters), might get an eventual Gloomspite release? It’s something I was thinking about.  

The Slaves to darkness upcoming release is likely to have Everchosen, Archaon and all the Darkoath in it, and probably modifies the Slaves to darkness allegiance abilities heavily. 

And I think disciples of Tzeentch and Maggotkin May get updated.

Hellstriders arent Daemon anymore, gives me reason to believe Tzaangors on discs may lose Daemon keyword, same with guys like harbinger of decay, or Pusgoyle Blightlords. 

Furthermore, the locus of all the gods are getting streamlined. All of Khorne Locus got removed for just one Locus, same with Slaanesh. I feel they’ll do the same with Tzeentch and Nurgle, while giving Tzeentch terrain, endless Spells, then give Nurgle endless Spells, and update old models: Epidemius, harbinger of decay, fatemaster, Blue scribes etc. 

so far, the Chaos Daemon stuff makes me think there’ll be a 40k chaos Daemons 2.0 book, with terrain for all 4 gods, and updated models. 

And I wonder for sylvaneth: GW might do a Skaven style terrain, a box of 3 Wyldwoods, that are same size as original Wyldwood, so veteran players can still use their own, but limit the ability to create more, so as to reduce cost of entry? Because the Fyreslayers cost of entry has decreased MASSIVELY (from 120 models in a list to 50!!!!). So I feel GW is focusing on making the armies more accessible to new players. 

Sorry for my ranting, i’ll shaddap now  

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Just now, Warbossironteef said:

I almost lumped our judgements into magic... please don't hurt me

Khorne Cares Not From Whence The Blood Flows...