PrimeElectrid

Except it seems like the meta is developing towards the best 3+ armour save units, who will almost always be sat at a 2+, and who will probably be heroes healing themselves.

Actually I think they are on the right side of ambiguity as they have Pitched Battle Profiles in GHB21, which approves itself, and every unit has to have a warscroll.

Lmao no 🤣 1.1 Each faction has its own battletome which contains warscrolls & pitched battle profiles 25.0 every unit has a warscroll which is in the battletome However GHB21 says the profiles in that book are matched play legal. This includes the new units, and every unit must have a warscroll, so they’re good, though you have to infer it. The good news is they aren’t RAW excluded, like the allegiance abilities

Surely I’m not the first one to realise this but I can’t see anything in the matched play rules that enable the allegiance abilities written on the cards in Dominion. 1) GHB21 lays out the publications which are legal: neither Dominion nor the cards contained in it are listed (unlike the Stormcast allegiance abilities which are legal as BR Morathi is included). 2) There is no FAQ (so far) to say that the battletome allegiance abilities have been replaced/amended with the versions in the box. 3) Allegiance Abilities are not pitched battle profiles as defined in Core Rules section 25. There is not an entry for allegiance abilities in this section. 4) Core Rules Section 27 states allegiance abilities are included in battletomes. The cards are not in the battletomes and have not been FAQed otherwise. This applies to Kruleboyz specifically, as they have no battletome, and Venom Encrusted Weapons is not in the Warclans Battletome, and so cannot be used. In addition, there is no Kruleboyz faction to pick. 5) You can use Dominion units, as these are listed in the GHB21 specifically. Consequences for matched play: * Stormcast cannot use Blaze of Glory * Stormcast must use the Battletome version of Scions of the Storm (meaning they get -1 to hit when set up with this ability) * Kruleboyz cannot get Venom Encrusted Weapons (no MWs for 6s for anyone using these units). * The Swampcalla Shaman Poisons and Elixirs ability does not work fully in matched play. The poison options applies when Venom Encrusted Weapons is triggered, which does not apply as it is not legal, so nothing to trigger off. No mortals on 5s (because no mortals at all). This is probably more relevant to anyone taking Stormcast to an event in the next few weeks but applies to both. Don’t shoot the messenger, usual caveats about ask the TO/opponent, wait for the Dominion FAQ etc etc.

GHB21 lays out the publications which are legal: the Dominion warscroll cards are not there (unlike BR Morathi). There is no FAQ to say the battletome allegiance abilities have been replaced/amended. Allegiance Abilities are not pitched battle profiles as defined in section 25. There is no entry for allegiance abilities in this section. Good on your TO but it’s not RAW legal

More concerning, Blaze of Glory is not currently match play legal. This also means you use the old version of Scions and get the -1 to hit when you come down. Also a problem for Kruleboyz as their allegiance ability is also currently not match play legal.

Also Yndrasta should be able to use Thengavar as a melee weapon CMV

I was reading War At Amberstone Watch today, the free booklet you get with Dominion, and noticed that Knights-Arcanum are not Sacrosanct Chamber. Despite their obvious similarities they are in fact part of the Valedictor Temple. From this I had two realisations: firstly, I had no idea what Temples were or how they fit into the convoluted mess that is the Stormhost organisational structure; and secondly this Temple is there on pages 38-39 of the 2018 book for all to see and I had never noticed it - probably because of the same convoluted mess. Anyway, all that the battletome has to say about Temples is that they make up the Command Echelon, “graduates of the temples dedicated to the disciplines of the officer cadre.” The Temples train and equip all knights and lords before they are assigned to specific chambers. The battletome doesn’t then bother to explain the differences between these Temples or which of them train who, leading us to make some guesses. Heraldors obviously go in the Heraldor Temple, and Relictors in the Relictor Temple. As we’re getting a Knight-Relictor, does that mean there are Lords-Heraldor? I guess Incantors and Lords-Arcanum also go in the Valedictor Temple too? Fair bet that the Knight-Judicator goes in the Judicator Temple, but does that mean that there’s a Lord-Judicator? Following the same naming convention, are there Knights- and Lords-Valedictor? And where exactly do the Lords Castellant, Veritant (Valedictor Temple?), Aquilor, Exorcist (Relictor Temple?), Ordinator; and Knights Azyros (Relictor Temple?), Vexillor (Heraldor Temple?), Questor, Zephyros, and Venator (Judicator Temple?) fit in! Still, it’s fun that these were staring right at us, along with the 3 closed chambers, hiding in plain sight as it were. Perhaps we shouldn’t have been surprised about the Knight-judicator after all. (It’s still dumb that we have judicator temples training knights-judicator and also judicator units in the justiciar conclave which have nothing to do with each other). Theres also a fluff section where the Lord-Imperatant is in something called “the Logisticiar Nexus” of a storm keep, so I would guess he is the first model from the Logister Chamber. You can’t see his left pauldron which usually designated the chamber symbol, but Stormcast naming conventions are such a mess this could mean nothing. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Hearing lots of talk about stacking save bonuses. I wonder if this will be an early FAQ. It does seem unintuitive to cap save bonuses to +1 but then allow stacking them for the purposes of beating rend. Seems like it’s an unintentional side effect.

You missed a trick on 20 Sequitors. They were very good for 6 months-a year after release. They are still good now as the FAQ gave them a 5++. Nobody really knows what to play right now so just pick what you like and see how it goes. It does seem like the following are very good: * Monster-heroes (esp with a 3+ save, especially wizards, especially fly). * Strong shooting units (rend 2 or MWs) * Units with a 3+ save * Melee units with MWs Given the above I think the meta will gradually lean Vindictors > Sequitors (subject to the new book), but you could easily play a list centred around an Sequitor block, or MSU, or just build one solely out of Dominion.

While these are good points on the Heraldors limitations, I’ve never not played on a table with plenty of terrain to target, and most of the time there is a piece right in the middle, or on an objective, or right where your opponent wants to go. And while it must be within 18”, don’t forget that the Heraldor can run and toot as it is not a shooting attack. That is a 27” bubble (counting the move, 18” range, and 3” within) which is a lot of board presence. Especially now that tables are smaller.

I feel like everything a comet does, a Heraldor does better for the same price and more reliably.

Huh. That’s not a primaris model but looks like it might still have primaris proportions. That’s weird. The old style armour is a good look for grey knights but it leaves me baffled as to the GW marketing strategy. I assumed all old style marines would get updated to the primaris style but this suggests some will retain the old one.

I actually have an event before the next tome is out so have to get invested. It’s a double whammy as there’s stuff I would like to use but don’t have and don’t want to commit to buying before a new book.

I don’t know about the gutrippaz but those two Vindictor models from the paint set are not in Dominion at least.

double post

Lords Arcanum make for good targets of Metamorphosis. Get a support wizard to cast the spell then cast Arcane Bolt. Pop Finest Hour. Do D3 MW from Stomp, D3-D6 from Arcane Bolt, then crack spirit flasks, then pop All out Attack so him and the mount are hitting on 2s wounding on 2s for ~4 damage vs 4+ (some variance with the mounts but both work out around 2). 11 damage to a non-monster unit with 10 models or less (14 if they have more than 10 due to spirit flasks). As he counts as 5 models for scoring he can easily push something off an objective. Against other monsters he can use Titanic Duel and save the CP. Drops to 9 wounds which is still impressive.

💯 If it was going to release in August they’d have said so. The fact they just said available for order is pretty much confirmation that it’s September.

Swapped 5 Sequitors for 5 liberators, added a Knight Heraldor and 25 point triumph 👍

Considering a Stormcast list for an event in august that will sadly pre-date the new book. Hammers of Sigmar Lord Arcanum on Gryphcharger (Amulet of Destiny, Thundershock, We Cannot Fail, Windrunner) Gavriel Sureheart Knight Incantor Yndrasta 10 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Sequitors 5 Evocators 3 Annihilators 3 Annihilators Warlord Battle Regiment 100 points spare 🤷‍♂️

That’s actually the argument that was put forth: I play red marines with red rules 10 times but on the 11th occasion they are using green rules, now I am at a disadvantage because I associate red models with red rules.

The curved frame suggests part of a bow perhaps?

This doesn’t resolve the issue as raised, though. Yes you can get the TO to approve a Hammers of Sigmar army playing as Astral Templars. But you still have to have the conversation at the table with your opponent because they associate schemes with rules (supposedly). The argument being put forward is that it is somehow unfair to your opponent if you paint your models silver but use gold model rules. Getting a TO to approve it doesn’t make it less fair in that regard; it just makes it legal. My counter argument is that this is absurd given that we already allow armies with custom schemes to use official scheme rules, so the additional brain computation to process official schemes using different rules is minimal; that army lists exists expressly to clarify this because it is *not* solely a visual game, and nobody - nobody - has memorised every single sub faction rules by official paint scheme anyway for this to be an issue.

Player A is reasonably communicating with their army list. Edit: also, again, once you start throwing in qualifiers like “reasonable” the whole thing falls apart, because what’s reasonable to one person is different to another. Once you invite interpretation that requires communication you might as well do away with the whole thing and expect it all the time.

Yeah but this is the point though. Where’s the line? Is everyone learning the exact scheme of every sub faction, down to the precise shade of colour? How much of a variation to the official scheme is allowed before it’s no longer the official scheme and a custom one? If I paint my models in the Hammers of Sigmar scheme, but now go back and change one small detail like leather straps or something, is this still the official Hammers of Sigmar? Remember the objection raised isn’t that Player A is painting their armies in a way to gain an advantage; but that player B is at a disadvantage because they associate colour schemes with rules. If player B associates blue, silver and gold with Hallowes Knights, which I use but in a different way, then the argument is they must be Hallowed Knights. Because it looks similar. If this sounds like an absurd argument then good because it is. The solution is simply to refer to the army list which will state unequivocally what army is being played. We have already established that it’s possible to use a custom scheme to play a sub faction. The link between scheme and rules is broken right there. If you can do it for custom schemes you can do it for any scheme. This is how the majority of my games go. Please explain to me how exactly this is THE GREATEST EVIL in the hobby: Hello, these are my Stormcast. Oh cool, silver and blue. Yeah I’m playing Astral Templars, they do xyz. Here’s my list, check my book if you want. Got it thanks.