ChaosUndivided

Yes this is what we should be looking at. But lets be clear, you picked the worst offenders as far as battleline goes so yea clear discrepancy there. Both these factions are due for rework and i think when Slaanesh drops there will be some changes people wont be happy about. Yes agreed. I can dig up a quote from day booked dropped where i say i like this battalion even if it has heavy tax but a lot will ride on how well you use Aspiring D which is why i was suprised you didn't talk about him at all in your report. I think i want to give this list or something close to it a whirl.

Ugg where do i even begin. The problem im having here is that this is an anonymous forum where we really have no way to know if the people complaining just objectively suck at the game or not. I believe with every fiber of my being that you would literally loose no matter what faction YOU play as! After a month of your endless woe is me and other stupid post i am convinced me vs you would be the definition of clubbing a seal, it would make meme hall of fame. Go fight someone your own size cuz clearly you just dont understand good fundamentals of the game. Warhammer has never been known as a "fair and balanced game"! In fact many would argue thats part of the fun of it just like when you play a video game on extremely hard setting, some people love a challenge. Furthermore NO. Here is a good lesson on life you should take to heart and repeate over and over again in your tiny self loathing defeatus head of yours. Do not compare yourself to others! It will make you much happier in life. Focus on what YOU are good at and improve on those things. Find the stuff YOU love and do those things. I repeat do not compare what you are or what you have or where you been to other peoples! As far as this game is concerned the only thing that needs to be comparable is points. You could literally take an army that has 0 commandbtraits 0 artifacts 0 warscroll abilities and win tournoment after tournoment if they where just pointed well enuff. Guys you're turning into trolls im not responding to you any more!

Why does the conversation always get steered in this direction? Always comparing Khorne to other factions when in reality you can compare any of those factions to yet more factions and complain about how they lack this or that. Every faction has pros and cons. Should we better at melee? Yeah. Am i gonna ****** and moan about it? Nah. Its not like we are as far behind as some make it seem or that we don't have some strengths to play to. How badly do you need to win every game? Like do you even know what fun is or do you need to win to have "fun"? Long before this last book dropped Khorne has basically always been just under the 50% win/loss ratio at tournaments? I don't see that changing with this book. But it is telling about the army and its history. In fact many factions fall far below the 50% mark. If you're winning even half your games your doing better than most. If your getting trampled to death every game either git gud or play against less experienced people. Im gonna disagree. We already had this discussion. You run dual axes which are just flat out sub par vs gorefist but refuse to change. As it was stated by someone else some people are just salty that they spend 100$ on sub par unit choices.

@Roark yeah i usually dont play with Malign Sorcery artifacts cuz not everyone has the book and it feels unfair but i gotta try that build. I'm thinking even Gorecleaver on sword wouldn't be bad choice. @Smooth criminal i have been wrong about things before but the wording on Ever Onwards command ability states "that run roll is treated as being a 6." Which would lead me to believe it is modifiable with Stoker and this has been a matter of discussion several times and never heard anyone mention otherwise.

Yeah your right. I was hoping he would be killy enuff on his own without an artifact cuz the Banner of Wrath is just too good to pass up and ultimately i was glad i took it. Had i remember the trait and just rolled a lil better i think he would have seemed more impressive. I love mortals and like running this guy even if he is sub par but im willing to bet a BToIR is just way better choice for 30 points more. You don't have to stack traits and artifacts on that guy to do work. They both have same wounds, saves, and movement/fly but Rage Thirster is just way more killy. I feel like Manticore is a drain that absolutely requires trait + artifact + buff support to make a killing machine.

Lol i agree sounds like someone didn't know what they where doing or just very caught by suprise at Warrior's speed. I'm going to agree except i don't think its that bad. My 5 man Reapers where reliably getting 4+ MW in addition to normal damage and i wasn't even fishing for 6s with reroll ALL hits. If i was fighting something with crazy good save and started fishing it could easy be 6 - 8 MW. The gorefist really do spit MW all over the place the longer the Warriors stay alive the better obviously but if you do get attacked by a horde and have to roll dozens of saves its surprising how many MW can show up. The Priest are mortals btw and Blood Boil is deadly as ever and the Axe and Icon Judgments just ****** MW everywhere. Also Skullcrusher charge is fairly reliable MW buy good luck getting many of those in a game. Its not hard to get 3 - 4 Blood Tithe especially if both armies have chaff and you got blood sacrifice. You gotta spend em as soon as you can, including your enemies hero phase. You're always trying to pick and choose who fights who to optimize your killing potential or speed bumb opponent and make them waste turns killing chaff after chaff.

@AresX8 i like your list. Agreed that 10x Warriors with gorefist are actually pretty damn good. I had same experience with Reapers, just the sheer amount of saves my opponent had to make was overwhelming. Stoker is better than before. I used Apocalyptic Frenzy in my last game to devastating effect and not sure i even care much about summoning stuff anymore unless its guarantee win. Tell me did you use the Aspiring D to any great effect? You mentioned getting up to 7 attacks on Reapers so i guess he did something. Its kinda funny cuz i remember when book first dropped and everyone was crying tat this was exactly the stuff we was talking about... There is definitely some serious strengths here to explore and i think we're gonna see Khorne active in meta. Great report!

I have had good success with Goretide run + charge along with Stoker + Blood Warriors. I know its not for everyone but those dude haul ass across the board with 5 base move + auto 6 inch run + 3 from Stoker then a charge that you also get +3 to for a minimum of 19 thats if you roll double 1s on charge. They are not killy and wont just flatten things but you can run right around screens and engage back line in 1 fell swoop. Once the shooters are in combat they have to target the Warriors meaning you have time to move in other stuff or chew thru screens. I have deamons for the sole purpose of summoning (i plan to put karanak in a list eventually) and i have pretty much only ever played as mortals and so far this new book has done nothing but improve them from my experience. I know this is not going to suit everyones fancy but between my monsters and Goretide + Blood Warriors i don't feel a lack of speed has been a problem yet. Also placing alter at edge of territory and slinging Blood Boils and Judgments have decent enuff range that they feel like an artillery encampment.

GHB 19 is almost around the corner, point changes will be expected.

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up for me. So to recap: Murderlust can move/retreat + run. You cannot pile in and attack again if models are slain due to battleshock under any circumstances as it is no longer the combat phase. If you kill Bloodwarriors (Khorne vs Khorne) with Apocalyptic Frenzy they do not get No Respite cuz again not combat phase.

Yeah i get No Respute and Relentless Fury don't track with getting to pile in and fight as it affects a different phase. I just had a completely seprate question regarding can you run or not when using Murderlust. As the rules states you can make a "normal" moce or choose to charge i would read that as you can't move + run, i just wantes to get other opinions on that.

Ok i see that. I originally thought that fleeing units didn't get to fight but i had 2 people say otherwise. I should have just read rules out loud per badem. What about Murderlust?

So i just read over FAQ and commentary and thought it was pretty good but i still have a couple questions. First one, as per core rules a model that flees durring battleshock counts as slain. So does this mean that Blood Warriors who flee due to battleshock get to use No Respite prior to fleeing? Also does this imply all units who flee due to failed battleshock while Relentless Fury is active get to pile in and attack? Surprisingly this hasn't come up in a game of mine prior to last night and we all agreed fleeing units count as slain therefore get to pile in and attack. Second question, when a unit is picked to move during the hero phase with Murderlust do they also get to run? Its not clear to me one way or another.

So i had a fun Khorne vs Khorne game last night. I was playing a 100% mortal army and my opponent was playing a mostly deamons army. He had 2 Thirsters IR, 2 Priest, 2 Secrators, 3x30 Letters and Wrath Axe with Bloodlords host. I had a Chaos Lord on Manticore, 2 Priest, Deathbringer with spear, Secrator, Stoker, Warshrine, 2x10 Warriors, 1x10 Reavers, 2x5 Reapers, Wrath Axe, Slaughterborn battalion, with Goretide host. I gave the CLoM the command trait which i completely forgot about all game and the goretide artifact, i gave the Secrator the Banner of Wrath. One of his BT had the halo artifact. I get to choose who goes first and i let him go so i can let him get closer to my altar. He can't make any charges and its my turn next. With the Goretide run + charge i send both units of Warriors as deep into his troops as i can. And the Manticore has no problem flying over stuff and closing in on a Secrator. 1 unit of Warriors has the other Secrator pinned but they also drew in a BT. The other unit of Warriors crashed into his other BT. I roll pretty crappy and he rolls amazing so by end of first turn all my Warriors are pretty much dead and only 1 of his Secrators suffers 2 wounds from Manticore and 1 BT has a scratch, while the other BT is half dead mostly thanks to a 5wound Blood Boil. So we roll off for turn 2 and i win. Obviously i opt to double turn him. By now the Warshrine has pinned a 30x Letter unit down. I whip a unit of Reapers and send them in to help the Warshrine along with the Death Bringer. The Reapers rerolling all failed hits + failed wound didnt miss a single attack and decimated half the Letters. On the other flank i send another unit of Reapers in to take on another 30x Letters. This time Secrator is nearby so they got 25 attacks and only miss 2 so that unit of Letters got wrecked. Meanwhile i get Wrath Axe off thanks to altar and i send it flying into his half dead BT and a nearby Priest plus the Secrator my CLoM is fighting nearly killing them all. So my Secrator has his nearly dead BT engaged i use Banner of Wrath and it finishes the Thirster and 1 of his Priest off. Later my Manticore finishes off that Secrator. I all but won that half of board. On the other side he takes out the Warshrine and only manages to kill 1 Reaper with the Thirster. We roll off turn 3 he wins. I use Apocalyptic Frenzy at the top of his hero phase on the Reapers and they just wiped out the rest of the Letters on right flank. We call the game there because of time constraints. I called it a draw because it was quite close game if counting models slain. We where, however, playing Knife to the Heart scenario and we surmised that if the game had continued i would of won as i could easily burn 2 of his objectives turn 3 and had his 3rd contested. My thought about the game was first the Thirster of Rage's Outrageous Carnage abilty is crazy good. He wrecked me so hard turn 1 with that and the halo artifact is like awesome as hell. The Lord on Manticore was pretty underwhelming, however, i forgot all about his command trait and i think a different artifact could help him a lot, i was also rolling pretty bad but he did hang in there till the end andbhis flying and 6" pile in is invaluable. He played his Priest poorly and was never within range of his altar but mine capitalized on the reroll, it made a noticeable difference. Bloodletters where not impressive but neither are the Blood Warriors if they get hit hard enuff. The Deathbringer with spear sucked without any kind of trait or artifact. The Stokers reroll all failed wounds saved the day, i would take 2 instead of the Deathbronger if he wasn't a battalion requirement. Once again Slaughterborn's worsten rend was a real pain for my opponent, especially on those 3 wound Reapers. The Reapers just drowned my opponent with so many attacks they where MVP by far, just 5 where able to take down 30 man blobs. The Banner of Wrath was exactly what i needed and it was able to polish off some key units, i will definitely take this whenever i can. The Warshrine is nice the reroll all failed hit buff is amazing with Stokers reroll all failed wounda especially when used on Warriors with the run + charge command ability altho it did lil to help me this game but the Warshrine is pretty sturdy and big which makes it a good tarpit if nothing else. From now on im going to forgo all summoning and focus on maximizing the boons half of the Blood Tithe table as i feel it is amazingly powerful and total game clencher if used wisely.

@Darksteve im quite sure that os once on each hero phase. I also have a question that i just want to make sure im not playing wrong. Does Goretide command trait apply to mounts? Does Secrator and Wrathmongers buff also apply to mounts?

@Ravinsild Yes i have been liking Blood Warriors much more now thanks to Goretide. They don't feel as overcosted. The fist can be brutal but rely on rolling average or better, conversely axes rely on rolling poorly lol. I thought the axes would become obsolete but im glad they still have a place. Also i think the downgrade on Reavers, due to Secrator changes, have put Warriors in better position as well. Also the reroll all failed wounds on Stoker has helped. Its interesting to see how a few small changes can really add up. The Warshrine's favor of Khorne and Stokers lash turned the Warriors into a ball of murder my last game.

@Ravinsild lol no read it wrong you're right sorry.

Yeah. I didn't even take it last game cuz i thought it got nerfed. I glossed over that section.

Oh haha. Derp. Thats good news!

I was stuck at work all day with my phone about to die but im glad i missed out on the crybaby hissy fit. If you don't have a question or something constructive to add then stop wasting our time on here! @Ravinsild You know bronzed flesh is only reroll saves of 1 now, not +1 to sace like before? I'm glad to see Warriors still seem to be good with dual axes. But im gonna stick with me MW fist tyvm. From most of the people who have reported their games (and who seem to know what they're doing) it seems like overall we are in a very good place. So far a lot of different list have done well, thats good to see! Edit: i miss read bronzed flesh.

I noticed after Darksteve's question that Skulltaker's command ability does in fact have Bloodletters in bold print in the book but not in the Azyr app. The latest publication (book) is always right, Azyr has several mistakes, so be on the lookout for that.

There kinda isnt room left to do much interesting things since you still need 3 battleline. I would do 2x10 Reavers just for chaff, Flesh Hounds cuz 5 hounds is probably better than 5 lonely Warriors, then 5 Reapers and another Judgment bringing you to exactly 2k. Alternatively 3x10 Reavers, 5 Mongers, and Garrek's brings you to 1950. The Reavers are to either screen, die, or hold objective, nothing else. Use Mongers to buff Thirsters or use Reapers to clean up what the Thirsters don't finish.

@Reezark_SP As the word Bloodletters is not bold than it refers to specifically the unit. Bold lettering implys anything with that keyword.

Yes, its comical our Priest are better wizards than actual wizards and to top it off we get a free wizard tower. Honestly it cracks me up but also its like GW to do stuff like this where you completely turn something upside down and reverse it (im thinking about dwarfs that live underground to now dwarfs live in clouds and elfs are not in woods but under water). Personally i enjoy this "flavor" of Khorne but i don't really like how dependant on Priest we are right now and oh boy i would love to just slay in melee like we're supposed to. You don't need 4xReavers without battleshock immunity they are trash tier. You can bring 1 or 2 for objective grabbing while everything else does the fighting tho. You got 2x10 Warriors thats good but make sure to run gorefist. More Reapers and Mongers for sure like 2x5 of each can't hurt. You say you like to let enemy break themselves on you then your in the right army ATM. Run Slaughterborn battalion against anyone who relies on rend and you will love it. Killax will probably suggest a 2nd cannon to compliment your other and Mongers. I dont plan on going that rout simply cuz i like 100% mortal list. Instead i would take your Warshrine and load up on Judgments. The large base size of Judgements works good to block and funnel enemy soldiers and control board if nothing else.

@SmileB4uDieXD They scared lol. Seriously i got into heated debate with a GW rep during a game about the new unbind rules. He was trying to say i had to give up a prayer to use unbind the way a wizard has to spend a spell cast. It took a 3rd person to agree with me based on wording there was no such rule when it comes to Khorne's unbinding. The whole thing really stemmed from what seemed to be his perception that the new rules for Khorne are just OP which isn't really the case.