Laststand
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Posts posted by Laststand
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46 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
HoS are just one example of the trend. But again you've not actually engaged with any of the arguments. Yes I started with LVO's data and then I investigated the meta-data (The data that makes up the data presented) for the events that were available. That's what good researchers do, look at the nitty gritty of the source data...
I've dispensed with the feel bad argument further up, feel free to engage with it there. I don't really have an agenda I'm engaging with the topic of the thread and using retrospectives to inform how we should move forward.
Don't raise your voice, improve your argument
- Desmond Tutu
You both have some valid points. HOS may well have been changing because of new factions and the older lists would have had to go but you are saying it is ok for 1 faction to dominate the game for 6 months and be unplayable for many opponents because eventually that gets fixed by another faction taking over as the superpower. The time period really causes problems here and it isnt just people figuring an army out.
The flip side of you saying that HOS are now rubbish and applying your point from before is that maybe HOS have to wait for a new army to come in to upset shooting lists and switch the meta back to something they can compete in. It might take 6 months but you would be happy with that.
Ultimately we should prob park this thread and everyone can agree to disagree.
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2 hours ago, Yondaime said:
They lack a proper named boss moster imho, like katakros, teclis et similia
They need to order the battletome tho, 3 warscroll for paladins, 3 for extremis etc, just put them in 1 scroll and the tome will be so much lighter
I hope sooner, they need so much buffs and reworking atm
They have plenty of chunky heroes, many of them named. The Prime is a good example. The warscrolls are just outdated or overcosted or both for the majority of the units.
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2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:
The problem is that the vast majority of players have no idea what is coming, and only an even as far I can tell only a small minority have any idea of how the interactions between forces and strategies impact each other. The list that was tormenting the world doesn't work against, OBR, doesn't work again DoT, doesn't work again Seraphon and doesn't work against LRL, and already didn't work against DoK, was struggling against Hallowheart, and was an iffy prospect against Orruks. So we have no idea what HoS would have become in the face of those pressures, but we do know two things, that they are terrible right now. And, that they would have been unbearable for about what at the most 7 months? Its plain short sighted thinking, and had we all just collectively not lost our cool, the whole game would be in a different place right now as we prepare for GHB and I think better. This isn't WHFB AoS is in a constant state of becoming, meta-states are much smaller than the HWG stats provide for, and at best show what the game was not what it is.
I don't generally like reacting to people getting the "feel bads", because as humans we actually tend to a) overreact, and then b) either institutionalize our feelings, meaning that they will just be a deeply held belief (not opinion) regardless of their basis in fact, or move the hell on pretty quickly. I'm still pretty sure most the the noise about HoS came from people who never played a single game against them. All this to say that in a lot of situations doing nothing is the right thing to do. Having 2 Faqs a year has lured people into the idea that they don't have the intellectual power to come up with solutions or to copy + paste another persons ideas or that there should be an expectation to update your army build as new things come out.
I don't think HoS summoning was in effect that bad, it was quite easy to kill or zone the heroes in the places you don't want people to summon into and if you can't it is probably a result of being outplayed. More often then not by turn 3 summoning more heroes wasn't a winning strategy anyway. The only change that HoS needed was taking the KoS locus of diversion bonus down to +1 instead of +2 and seeing how that played out. Now I understand many people just play the game to kill the opponents army, but frankly that's maladaptive and if that is the case you're playing the game poorly from the onset and we as a community should not be encouraging that mindset generally speaking because it doesn't allow for a diverse strategic approach among factions.
If we have real diversity some strategies will just be easier to play, easier to collect, cheaper to play, have models that are more appealing to more people, or strategies that are more appealing to certain personalities. The combination of these attributes is probably more impactful than the power of a factions rules or points generally speaking, and over reacting because the loudest faction of players want to line up their models and duke it out I feel diminishes the quality of the game and the depth of the AoS world.Good points and entirely possible that 5 or 6 armies can happily deal with HOS but the other 18 suffer and thats an issue. People like to play with their toys and shout if they feel they can't.
There is also a question of balance with all summoning. The idea that armies are costed to factor it in doesnt really seem to carry much weight when you see an extra 500pts plus arrive during a game and often summoned to go for an objective. Sure you can screen but if you are heavily outnumbered or lose your screen and cant replace it you are at a genuine disadvantage. I find in smaller games the impact is higher due to the smaller number of units in an army that need to cover the board.
You are correct that lots of people dont play the objective game. They play to wipe out the opponents army with objectives as a sideshow. I have seen that happen and very much been guilty myself of this at times. Changing the mindset will definitely win a player games that before they would have lost.
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13 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
KO
@GwendarHow do kharadron overlords use a skaventide spell? Or am i reading that wrong?
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1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Oh right we forgot to mention the battailons.
I personally hope that some or most of them get a 80-100points decrease.
Or they allow the Skryre battalions to be taken individually rather than as part of the super battalion that means everything is very expensive.
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23 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
Bye bye... artifacts and spells.... Bye bye, Aqshy Scales... Eternal Amulet, Doppelganger Cloak....
It says "if" you decide your army is from a mortal realm use the below rather than malign sorcery. Ok, my skaven are not from any realm at all and my corrupter cant even remember where he picked up his sword of judgement. At least thats how i hope it works.
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10 hours ago, Sleboda said:
Elemental Bug Men
@Sleboda like shadows of the Apt series? Mantis weapon masters and waspkin warriors!
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5 hours ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:
I think we'll realistically see a revisit of Nurgle and Slaanesh before we get a new Chaos army,
Slaanesh got a new book 5 mins ago. I know not everyone is happy with the balance or lack of mortals but it is one of the strongest factions in the game and unlikely to get a new book for several years. Nurgle I agree needs a 2.0 book though.
The best thing would be as other have said for GW to flesh out existing factions with a few new units. There are some armies which are desperate to be able to select from more than 3 or 4 non hero units and this would make them much more attractive.
Also there cant be any doubt thay stormcast are coming at some point soon. No way are GW going to let the posterboys of the entire game languish in a barely playable state where only a tiny handful of the 50+ units they have being of any use at all on the field.
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56 minutes ago, Gwendar said:
Basically, if our battalions were cheaper by about 40-60 points it would be worth it so I could squeeze in one of the above. 180 points is not worth it for -1 to power rolls and an extra artifact\CP.
With luck the GH is a help but I fear the only real change will be a bump for the corruptor because of how it does in the Legion.
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@Cosmicsheep The book says nurgle are allies if the skaven general is Clan Pestilens. It doesnt have to be your whole army.
My understanding is that the restriction of having your whole army from 1 clan is so that you can unlock battleline options. So you can take a pestilens or eshin battalion in a mixed skaventide list as long as you meet its unit requirements.
If i remember rightly @Gwendar shared a list a while back that was mixed but had a Skryre battalion for double WLC.
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How about this? I think it could be an interesting mix and at worse cause chaos on the table.
Allegiance: Skaventide
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Lord of Blights (140)
Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
Units
40 x Plague Monks (280)
- Woe-stave
1 x Doomwheel (160)
1 x Doomwheel (160)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
5 x Gutter Runners (60)
Artillery
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vermintide (40)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 166
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2 hours ago, Aryann said:
In order of purchase: Idoneth Deepkin, Gloomspite Gitz and Kharadron Overords. Untouched. Have some plastic Ogors from 2x boxes of Feast of Bones as well and maybe I will start with them after I paint my last three models from Ossiarch Bonereapers (2k) since Ogors are low model count army. 2k fully painted - Nighthaunt and Sylvaneth. 1k painted - Khorne and Stormcasts. If I manage to paint one more army this year it won't be that bad. Two armies a year is a good score in my opinion. Do you have a grey pile of shame as well?
Dont we all? I am doing ok at the moment . I am half way through a stonehorn which when finished will give me 1k painted ogors. Lockdown has meant i have yet to play them. Then I have a backlog of 1.5k skaven reinforcements for my main army (already over 2k). Last a bit of war cry stuff to do for my Skaven warband but that largely consists of finding 2 fleshhounds to convert into giant rats.
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30 minutes ago, Aryann said:
OK, just ordered my Lumineth Box. I don't know what is wrong with me. I really don't need it since there are still unopened 3 armies on my shelves each worth at least 2000 points. I am comforting myself that there are worse, more expensive addictions out there.
Who are the inhabitants of the grey shelf of shame?
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Has anyone tried a Lord of Blights in a corruptor/monk heavy force? His CA on a 40monk unit looks great. -2 to hit in shooting and -1 in melee.
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2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
A third doomwheel.
mmh that does sound great.
but so do 3bombadiers too.
mmh.
🤔mmh I think I’ll keep your idea in mind.
I do like it very much in fact
but the list has already been send, so I guess it’ll have to wait till next time.
And who knows Maybe one of those bombardiers it the lucky one and will kill a Nagash with his doom rocket😂.
considering that I’ve been already so lucky to kill a Mawcrusher, one of those special maggotkin heroes, and even rip apart a Slann with one of these, why not try it again😂.
Yes-yes no thing will stay-keep alive from a real-real pesky mad-thing,
Uahahahaha!!!
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
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1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:
So I’ll be taking part at a tournament in a few weeks.
Now I’ve been trying a certain theme for my skaven out.
The list has pretty mich remained the same, although I have exchanged Vermintide for Prismatic palisade.
Vermintide is a great spell, but it didn’t really do much for me.
I’d rather have something that can keep my heroes and well more expensive units like doomwheels and acolytes a bit save from shooting.
and the palisade, just does that.anyways here’s my list:
Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
LEADERS
Skarn, Engineer of Doom! (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Snag and Grum (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- Artefact : Vial of the Fulminator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Skraa the incredible mad (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
The black furred Gnawers of the deep warrens (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
Skallogs mighty backstabbing backstabbers (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
Skreelogs cowardly Vermins (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
Wheel of Dooom!! (160)
1 x Doomwheel
The Messenger of Dooom! (160)
1 x Doomwheel
The mysterious Mystery (80)
10 x Night Runners
The unknown (80)
10 x Night Runners
Deathvermins (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes
Skarns miserable Experiments (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bell of Doom (40) Prismatic Palisade (30)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 211
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400
Thoughts on it, tipps or even just plain complaints, are always welcomed.3 bombardiers? That is a lot of redundancy. You could drop one, make the other two plain engineers and have a third doomwheel or a grey seer.
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15 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:
We know from Iron Hands playtesters that GW rules writers only really take things under advisement and that they'll ignore things if they think it's 'thematic' or 'characterful', which is why we can end up with abyssal balance much of the time.
Having competitive players chipping in is actually a very new thing to the studio, as it seems like they mostly playtest in a very casual environment among themselves, which is also why they're often so blindsided by combinations that seem obvious in hindsight.
It is a very weird approach for a company of their size to just ignore feedback. Something may very well be characterful or thematic but if it is a mechanic or unit that significantly reduces a significant number of peoples enjoyment of the game it should be changed. I'm not talking about winning or losing here, it is things that leave opponents using most of the available armies just rolling saves and picking up their models without any way to respond (turn 1 death or crippling whatever you do). If I lose, I lose but if i cant actually play the game because my opponent has something which stops me playing (and there are plenty of recent examples of this) it is a bad business move.
It's also no use saying just use the 1 or 2 armies that have some sort of a counter to the superpower as that invalidates the use of a significant proportion of the factions for sale. A constantly changing meta with new challenges and new powerful armies to contend with is good. Breaking the game because the rules writers think a particular thing is a cool idea in isolation is silly.
Re tome balance, having 1 subfaction which is obviously far more powerful than any other just means chunks of the book need not have been written.
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1 hour ago, El Antiguo Guardián said:
Good news. If they release LRL, we will have SOB in a few, so that means... vampires are near too 😁😁
Has there been anything that even hints at soublight or a new vamp faction? We have a player in our group who would weep tears of joy and dance a jig if they were announced.
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It isnt a magic wand for every painting situation but it definitely has its place. Wood, fur, scales, areas of high relief detail and instances when you want a bloched effect.
I have had fun with it and found the best thing for me is that it lets me jump straight to subtle layering, highlights, dry brushing etc. As others have said it also blends well.
See it as a useful tool in your paint collection and use it when it works for you and the value is there.
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Finally, FINALLY! The Warlock Bombardier is on preorder next week!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/09/pre-order-preview-heroes-warbands-gangs-and-more/
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1 hour ago, DestructionKev said:
Oh yes, nice! that sounds awsome! I startet into the Hobby as a total Beginner with a Start Collecting Ironjaws Box. After i had 2k army of Ironjaws i changed to Beastclaw Raiders (now Ogor Mawtribes), because the last Ironjaws Model which i painted was the Megabos on Mawcrusher and i totaly fell in love with big and brutal Models, why i switched to Beastclaw Raiders. Ah i totaly love the Lore and the ambiente of these Destruction Guys
But Yeah! definitvly looking forward to that video
I'm working on my mawtribes at the moment so they will feature in the cabin v the ironjaws soon.
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Hi
I don't suppose anyone has 2 plastic stormvernin models spare they would be happy to sell? One with shield, one without (or mounted on its back)?
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On 1/28/2020 at 11:19 AM, xking said:
Does anyone know what happened to Josef Bugman during the end times? did he die?
Sat in a low ceilinged bar somewhere underground. Feet up by the fire smoking a pipe and quaffing an ale while listening to Malakai Makaisson argue with Ungrim and Belegar.
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19 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:
Or this is intended and this will dominate for a little while and people will buy tzeentch to play this and win with it until the next set of changes this summer with GHB 2020.
One thing GW is great at is fueling the chase for the new hotness.
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Make NAGASH great again.
in Death
Posted
What spell is this?