Battlefury

@XaszAbsolutely agreed! If we intend to beatstick the enemie's army to dust, before he could do anything, the Skarbrand Tyrants combo is probably the best choice in the book yet. Maybe even in the entire game. That list would be a "one hit wonder", as it would just work against players, that didn't see that coming. I can imagine, that the strategy doesn't work anymore, as someone already knows, what will come. In one of my tournaments, when I played Khorne with the previous book, I had an army, that was kind of like that: 1 Skullgrinder ( General, Slaughterborn, Mark of the Destroyer ) 1 Bloodsecrator ( Banner of Wrath, or Rage? ) 2 Slaughterpriests ( Bronze Flesh and Killing Frenzy ) 10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield ) 10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield ) 10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield ) 5 Wrathmongers It was a 1000 point tournament. The plan was simple: Go fstraight for the objectives and stay there. I pretty much buffed one unit at a time with my priests, that gave the BWs a save of 3+ and +1 to hit. I keeped the Wrathmongers and the Skullgrinder in the backline, to see where the enemy moves his Monsters and the characters. Then I would go straight for those. The thing was here, that my enemy didn't want to go for any of my units, as they where just too nifty and trendy ( basically e could just got beaten back over and over again ). What then happened was, that his units kind of "danced" around my units, as he was not willing to engage them. With the priests I pulled some of his units out, and he retreated them sometimees. The Wrathmongers didn't give any possible way for his Monster. When he recognized, that he actually has to come, I had already enough victory points, that it kind of didn't matter. That list was build to have a good mix, that was clearly build with the motto "You hit me? Gonna hit you back...or even better...HIT YOURSELF! ) The new Tyrants list would not really grant that. It really would come down to a match of praying, that the enemy doesn't know that strategy already. So what do I want to say? Do we maybe have any other reliably list, that could give the enemy time to think? As it goes for the Wrathmongers now...they I would just not take them again. That +1A really isn't worth the 140 points imo.

I see an issue with the Blood Tyrants list. It is very strong and viable to destroy a lot os stuff. But with the intention to play objective based scenarios, that list is absolutely not fitting. I also think, that the Bloodthirsters are not sooooo good, but that's maybe just my opinion. Might be a thing to concider, that we shall not rely on those 3 Bloodthirsters so much.

I'd really go with those Bloodglaives. The rend of 1 is gold for melee, although they have only 3A. But better than just hitting better, but no rend is not that good tbh. I really would not use them as main battle unit. They're sitting ducks once in melee and will just break apart pretty fast. So you wanna get into melee with them just temporarily. Choose other units to take their place. I see Skullcrusher absolutely good by just charging units you want to have in place, or to prevent some units from flanking. Of course that potential is limited, as models might be vanished in melee. But until that I really see them as kind of top 3 charge cavalery in the game. Could also be very funny to play those in combination with Marauder Horsemen, as you technically throw the javelins to the enemy, then charge with the Skullcrushers and let them sit there. Decimate the enemy and let it rain those javelins as long as it pleases you. Other approach would be: Rain Javelins Charge Crushers Take Skullreapers into melee, once the enemy is in place / or buffed Reavers / or Blood Warriors ( whatever you concider potentialy ). There is clearly no need for the stampede battalion. Only if you wanna really have that artefact, but I really think it is better to take another unit for the point cost of the battalion. This approach is pretty grindy and has to be planned well due to positioning and timing. Always keep an eye to your enemies action and adapt, when it is needed to the situation.

Small units give you kind of more map control. And the enemy has to decide where to approach your units. That will make him go crazy, if you have A LOT of small units, as he / she would not know where to start. That would slit his forces, and you will find gaps to actually push in. It's like a tactic, that the finnish army used against the russian in the winter war. They called it "Motti". They basically pushed into the enemie's divisions, to split them up. And then they fought against those small parts of the big divisions. That gave them advantage, as they where more in number in realation to the small division parts. Same could be done here. Roll in ( Cavalry ), split them up by mancount ( small groups ) and get into the gaps to pick out core models.

Due to non demonic units I really only see some choices here: Use the Skullcrushers in minimum group size and minimum 2 groups there. Then charge / return -> charge / return -> repeat over and over again until the enemy is so decimated, when he reaches combat, that you can take him out with the Blood Warriors, Skullreapers and even buffed Blood Reavers ( their rend is golden there ). The amnner to actualy do that would be: you charge an enemy with the SKullcrushers and deal your MW, then you fight and let him fight back. With their 3+ save, they should be reliable enough to handle it to an extend. Next movement phase retreat that group and charge in the other one, deal MW again. Repeat as often, as you think it needs to be. I think the game should be played like, you catch the enemy, before it's troops reach your Infantery. Your priests could additionally dish out MW to those caught groups. It would technically be important to use minimum Infantery group size, so you can bubble wrap the enemy always and he has to split his A to your groups. Does have the down point, that units might be obliterated pretty fast. Therefore decimate them as good as psooible before, and the Alpha Strike the enemie's group.

I'd like to say something, but please don't judge me too harsh on that. I think it is absolutely nice, that all the Ladies and Gentlemen think about possible combos and lists, that can win games. Tha's absolutely great, and I am grateful for all of your tips and tricks! But until now, and I am afraid that it will not change, the list building evolves into the same meta, as the old book did. The only competetive combos and lists used: Gore Pilgrims Stampede(s) Council of Blood I absolutely understand, that it needs more time. But right now I'd like to push it into another direction. Does anyone have ideas, what lists could be played, that would be different to the old meta? Tyrants and Gore Pilgrims is ok, but didn't the book have to give us more abilities than the "old" ones? Yeah ok, thos old combos would be better now, but still just those restricted choices. Don't want to be the party pooper, really. But I just can't find different approaches until now, no matter how long I think about it.

Cool ideas so far. But it sounds a little, that the non demons are lackluster again, is that right?

A few month ago, there was someone complaining, that Khorne plays like "Little Khorny Chaos Wonderland", because our movement, positioning and buffs do always have to go through and be straight on point. He was absolutely right, and not only that! It seems, that it went much worse, as we now have the "...wholy within..." rules set to our army. I am afraid, that we can not stay competetive without the Tyrants battalion and the Skullcrushers anymore. That would bring us straight back to the point, the old book was after it got errata hammered and we had like 2 Battalions left, that could compete with the other factions.

You could take the Skullcrushers. They cost more points, but have 3A per model, and have a 3+ save. The charge damage they do is pretty much the same like with the Bloodcrushers. They also have a battalion, but really...you don't need it. That 2+ for the charge damage is not that big of an obstacle. So you could skip the points for the battalion ( exept you really need that additional artefact ) and maybe take another unit with you.

Agree 100%. The main issues, that where adresses for years and literaly broguht to GW where just not adressed. It seems, as other Armies get massively better "redesigned" with their upcoming books. I can totally see, that there is potential in the current army, as it is supposed to be. Maybe I am gonna find into them again. But they where sitting on the shelf for more than 1 year now, and i don't see, why to bring them out now. Even thinking about selling my 2500 points.

The books does have its shiny sides for sure. But for experienced players, who played the army from release of AoS right up, it is a different story. We know the flaws of the army probably better than any other player, especially those, who join in new now. The book adresses none of the main issues the old Battletome had. That's a concern that needs to be aknowledged. We shall never judge people on our own opinions. Maybe a big number thinks the book is good, and that's fine. Others are totally let down, and that's clearly a big number of players these days. I hope, that people will find a good way to play. For me personally, the army got destroyed, as the playstyle totally changed to a defensive meta. That's absolutely not Khorne for me. Khorne used to have all these different aspects of battle combined in itself. The old book got hammered, so it wasn't that anymore. The new book doesn't adress that, too. But anyway, i wish everyone to have fun, when they enjoy the new book.

Maybe that's the purpose of the book, actually. Khorne was almost vanished from the tournament metas, so it wasn't really sold.

Exactly this! That's what really buggs me, too. A lot of combos are just restricted, because someone would use the hosts. Gameplay went very static, tbh. It was a shame before, that noone could reach the enemy very fast, now it's kind of the same, or even worse due to the buff restrictions. The Slaughterpriests can grant buffs for units, while within 8", or 12", or 16". Why though? They are supposed to stay with the altar to reliably cast those judgements. Otherwise they will get battered so hard, with their 5+ save. Bloodsecrator's change was good to an extend, where he now cna move with his buff. But no bravery resistant really pushes him down a lot. Don't like that. Now we pretty much have to bank our CPs to gain battleshock resistance, and that's actually bad, tbh. Next meta is gonna be: Tyrants battalion with Halo of Blood Skullcrushers / Bloodcrushers combos ( no need of the battalion, tbh ) Skullcanon + judgement shooting armies That's really gonna be it.

They're pretty much sitting ducks, when in combat. After they dished out their MWs, they'll just sit there. Maybe that's what they're supposed to do. In general, I have to admit, that the book lets me down at a lot of points. Skullreapers lost their snowbally buffing of themselves. They're still good now, but kind of a little expensive for 180 points imo. Wrathmongers totally lost their punch, imo. It used to be so scary for the enemies, when they had to face them. Now they became a support unit for 140 points. That might be ok, but for me it's a let down, to be honest. Most of the battalions are absolutely mediocre, or even useless. Same with the artefacts and traits. Did anyone also notice, that there are sooooooo far many possibilities to reroll hit rolls? Over and over again, with very differnt aretacts and traits. Seems a little lazy from GW's side there. Some units got good, so as Skarr ( finally ) and Skarbrand ( he really had to get something, tbh ). The entire playstyle of Khorne did shift to be a pretty defensive army now. It is like "Let them come, then punch them". The units themselves hit not that hard anymore ( what they also didn't in the previous book ). It comes down to the judgements and a little number of unit combos. I am a little disappointed, but we'll see what can be done with the book. I mean, what Khorne had to do, are the Beasts of Chaos now doing pretty much, so they already became my 2nd army