Rachmani

It's basically the Khemist that singlehandedly makes Skywardens so much worse than the Riggers. They're worse without the buff (except in units so large the 2" reach makes a difference) but much worse with the buff. 4+ to hit REALLY hurts them & I'm not sure why they don't hit on 3 (rest stays the same). They do get better with "Settle the Grudges" though and that's where I see some potential but probably not enough.

I think it's fairly safe to say both have their merits. However one could argue wether to take 2 units with one weapon type each or mix them up. That's assuming we'll field cleansing phalanx and hence 2 units of Evocators.

Looks good, too. Bit of variation both visually & tactically.

I just think AotSea is just much more flexible than the AotStorm. I might however underestimate how good 12 wounds and no stat-loss are. That's indeed super strong.

Sea looks like it fits better in most cases. Storm imo needs to be a 1 spell caster in order to compete.

I as of now don‘t have any Idoneth Players in my group (or, more precisely I have, but they wanna paint first) & am wondering how the „real world difference“ between the Morrsarr & the Ishlaen is. Real world difference as in „what units you can come across can either defeat or soak“. The math is relatively clear, but how it translates into actual game experience is a different story, so that‘s why I‘m asking. ?

Exactly. And if she wasn‘t Hammers only, I‘d be ok with that. But as it is it feels just a tad wrong to auto-include the Gryph Charger Dude.

I‘m talking about the fact that the whole Sacrosanct Chamber is thematically built around Dracolines & the Tauralon - but the guy with the best command Ability (who also has a pretty potent spell) rides a Gryph Charger. The Gryph Charger on the other hand is the mount of choice for the Vanguard. But the command ability of the Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger doesn’t affect Vanguard units. It‘s instead specifically for Sacrosanct Chamber Units. It‘s a bit as if there was a Lord Celestant with a potent command ability that affects the whole Dracothian Guard. Except he neither rides a Dracoth nor a Star Drake but an „Angry Moa“ that completely breaks with the visuals of the rest of your army.

Is anyone else here kind of annoyed, that the Lord Arcanum with the best Command Ability is the one with the thematically least fitting mount? I‘m off course talking about the Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger and strictly from a fluff perspective. The model is good & Ride the Wind fits the Lord Arcanum‘s playstyle well.

@Kitty wrote about playing to your respective community. That‘s imo definitely the way to go. What you could also, but in the same spirit do is, to help your club built more competitive lists. That way you can have fluffy games if you want (where everyone cuts back) or „harder“ ones, where you go all out - but everyone with good lists, not just you. Some factions basically built themselves, others need more tinkering. Help them, get better together!

That is in deed pretty potent. Works on a great variety of enemies, too. Basically everything but Hordes. But even then it‘s not so bad. ? Nice. I‘ll look into that. Besides. I don‘t think there is much of a relevant KO mainstream. We have to try out stuff. And I for one like the reasoning behind your Thunderers a lot!

These are stock Thunderers (or should i say „stok“ Thunderers, huehuehue), no special weapons, equipped, right? I „guess“ for Khemist reasons. I‘m really torn on these. I kinda of want to give them some sort of special weapon, taking all of them totally ruins the Khemist buff, while taking only some of them feels wrong, too. Have you experimented with something like 2 Aethercannons in 10 Thunderers, but nothing else? It feels so wrong not to give them something, yet, gut feeling & naive fallacy point me towards 10 without any special weapons.

I‘m looking forward to this. Especially should the meta have shifted to a more alpha strike environment. We‘ll see. Keep us updated, please!

Well, depends on your goals. For some it‘s ok to do well, if the army as a whole is fun to play and you bond with your guys and their story etc. For others it isn‘t. And I think nobody enjoys painting a cool army just to get your ass whooped every time. That also really takes the fun out of the game =D. So, yeah, some kind of balance has to be archived, no matter how fluff related you play. And that balance always has to do with how strong your guys are. So I think apart from cavalry looking good next to the coach, the Hexwraith in said army idea could (even storywise) be Grimghasts, which I think would make a stronger choice - although maybe not better looking or not as well fitting (Hey, did I mention how dated the Hexwraith look? ).

Me neither! Still... looks very appealing. So even if it‘s not for 2k play, it might still be worth collecting. If the Hexwraith looked better (which I ironically really liked before the new Nighthaunt release) I probably would have started collecting right away.

I meant the „by then older stuff“. To me there is a big difference between a deepstrike & a 9“ charge without help & a swoop across the board & a then 5“ charge or something like that. Basically what was trying to say is, there is good alpha strike, because of risk and reward being fairly balanced & there is bad alpha strike that just leads to lopsided games. Or, just as bad & as you mentioned, whole armies that are all of a sudden out of any sort of meta. Some sort & form of alpha strike will always and probably always has to exist. It has to keep gunlines and Nagash etc in check. But a whole meta built around it is just as boring as the other way round. So, I could be wrong, but Nighthaunt look relatively balanced in terms of their alpha strike potential. They, as you said, lack the shenanigans on top of deepstrike. So it appears to be more of an alpha threat than an alpha strike army. And if you can’t reliably charge after deepstrike you plan differently and it gets more tactical. Your opponent can then react, so the non deepstrike part of your army has to do its part etc. It’s not „hey, turn one, I charge you, no matter where you are“. That is where some armies just get slaughtered and pushed out of any resemblance of tournament play. Would you agree, or did I miss something? Edit 1: I forgot about the cogs - which I think are not a good addition to the game at all. Edit 2: Thanks for the podcast link! I‘ll listen to it - and maybe change the above answer . Thanks! I love to listen to some meta talks, be it general or army specific. Even though I myself try to not get entangled in it all too much. Makes me not buy and paint the stuff I like, if I do (like KO ! ).

I have the feeling that they will try to limit alpha strikes in future releases (or release armies with, let‘s call it thematically limited alpha strike potential), look how it goes and then maybe come back to the older stuff. Alpha strike is such a make or break thing... .

I haven‘t had the time to look into the Nighthaunt too much, but I think Shroudguard & Deathriders compliment each other very well - and not only thematically. Has anyone experimented in that direction, so far? Shroudguard should make a pretty formidable anvil. Hexwraith and the coach (especially the latter) pack some punch. As a bonus, it looks good. You have your knight of Shrouds (on foot or horseback), accompanied by his Shroudguard his warriors of old. As a plot twist, He was a vampire once, but was slain by some enemy hero. Now he awaits resurrection within the black coach only being able to manifest as a shadow - the Knight of Shrouds. Dreadblade Harrows, is former second(s) in command guard the coach and lead it into battle for it to gain strength. The Hexwraith (that look awfully dated, now that the new models are out *cry*), former knights of valor are now cursed to follow. So we have the „big swords“ theme on the KoS, the Dreadblades & Bladegheists - and also on the coach, where one of the ghosts carries a sword as a reliquary. But we also have the scythes theme, in the Cairnwraith on top of the coach, the Hexwraith & maybe one unit of Grimghasts just for fun & thematic consistency. I think that would look very good on the field but also doesn‘t look weak right away.

I wouldn‘t call the KO an „extreme gunline“. Our shooting distance is not that great. & we‘re pretty mobile. Alas I think we‘re lacking 1 or 2 types of troops to get a little bit of variation in our playstyle. With that being said, I don‘t think it‘ll take a lot to make the KO a much better army. A unit of reasonable objective holders, maybe another battleline etc. and I think we‘ll do very well - without going from meh to omg, they‘re so good.

I love the idea of a „Logistor“... what ever he might do. Maybe give a bonus to ship weapons (better logistics, more firepower!). Sort of like a Lord Ordinator but with more class (ok, that beard is pretty classy, Hammerguy). @Barkanaut has pretty much summed up the „obvious“ (but by no means bad) options. Personally I think the Arkanaut Company is meant to be the baseline, being „both“ shooty & stabby. Both could also mean „neither“. In terms of more specialised melee, I‘d go for the melee equivalent of Grundstok Thunderers. As in „everyone starts out as Company“, and later down the line you become a thunderer - or a whatever „hammerer“. In terms of gunships we would basically be looking at the transport version of the Gunhauler & the „all shooty-shooty“ version of the frigate. With the Ironclad staying the biggest, badest and meanest ship around. The „Mithrilclad“ super gunship will be reserved for AoS 5.0, when they run out of ideas. Doesn‘t sound like much, but I think something along those lines would really fit the army well. Without going overboard on our shooting.

I‘ve read somewhere (and a while ago) that the KO will definitely get new stuff in the future. What do you think it will be? I love their look, partly also how they play, but for such a new army (as in no previous models) they feel awfully narrow in their design. Nothing that robs them of their identity, but just some flexibility like a poor mans ironbreaker boarding party.