Nos

I loved the DE aesthetic and history but the utter oxymoronic nonsense of a society of psychopaths made it hard to really dig into them to any degree

Darkoath and Moonclan are both new factions and there’s far more reason to believe they’re coming than there is aelves

No way they’re going to blow their load like that. Will be at least another year before any of those things happen. The fallout of Soul Wars hasn’t even been realised yet.

Yes i’ve seen some Golden Demon stuff face to face as it where before and the achievement of texture on a flat surface is always the thing that impresses me most. I think what I mean though is that then you see it as a mini in its actual scale rather than an inflated photo it makes it more relatable. I feel as though I can see how they’ve accomplished something, a mastery of techniques that pretty much everyone uses, even if they are executed at a level few people are ever able to accomplish. It’s like the difference between seeing sport on TV and live. The athleticism and skill seen live is no different to what it is on TV but TV coverage lingers on and maximises the extraordinary to a degree that the naked eye can’t perceive in the flesh which leads to a distortion of expectation and perception. At Warhammer World they have some Demon winners from the late 90’s that I used to salivate over. And they are no less impressive in the flesh in a sense, but they’re also just models painted to a very good standard. That demystification experience was very healthy for my own attitude and approach to painting. Anyone who pains is closer than they think to that standard.

Always amazing to see ‘Eavy Metal stuff in regular lighting, thought the same at Warhammer World this year. Obviously it’s still a great paint job but it’s crazy how much more attainable thevstandard appears when you see it outwith the pages of White Dwarf.

I would remove the Ballista, it's not going to be as reliable or useful as 5 Liberators in a game that size. Honestly I don't think you need Gavriel either. You can do plenty with that army without him and actually it makes you more flexible and harder to outhink. My 1000 points Stormcast was very similar to this and I didn't need Gavriel to win routinely. Sequitors and Evocators with their buffs vastly outperform their cost at this level. Add a Castellant or a Relictor instead, characters who unlike Gavriel can affect any unit in your army every turn, and you have an army that's very hard to kill, capable of healing and Resurrection, plenty of scope for bringng on reserves for objectives and clutch plays, and is very good at kiling things in general. Not much else you need. Also if you're not taking Gavriel you can take a different Stormhost. At 1000 points Astral Templars can kill a general easily who in 1000 points games will represent a huge part of an army's effectiveness, and will make mincemeat of people who try to cheese it by bringing something like a Great Unclean One or Spirit of Durthu similar at this level. Or you could just take Staunch Defender, giving your Sequitors buffed by the Castellant a re-rollable 2+ save on defence or 3+ on the charge, as well as a powerful artifact.

Just curious as to whether the 5+ free Redemptirs thing ever actually happens

Did you play Hammers of Sigmar?

If your list relies on two deathball units then up against an army of similar it’s just going to come down to best turn and charge dice rolls to see who gets to pull it off. The weakness of an elite unit like 20 Evocators is that its expensive (800 points in this instance). It has to do a lot of work to justify that expenditure. But lumping all your points together makes for a lovely target for them to do just that. Not many units are going to survive getting hit by 20 Evocators, regardless of wounds or number of models. So the answer is don’t give them that target. Once they’re down they’re slow and also cumbersome due to how big their footprint is, so play around that. Give them nothing juicy to strike into by lining up the edges with something dispensable and then just avoid them. Youre probably thinking “Great-but how do I win if I can’t take my big units?” Well nearly half his army in this scenario is doing nothing of value. It can only hold one objective. Meanwhile the chaff you have to screen can hold multiple objectives leaving you with much more tactical strength, and you always have far more points to bring to bear where it counts. That’s how you do it. If your question is how do my 30 near naked non rend one wound models beat 20 multi wound multi damage multi mortal wound 3+ armour save wizard soldiers? They don’t. So don’t have that fight.

Pretty sure he’s enjoying it knowing Slaanesh

They're all situational really. The 6" pile in one is a nice advantage to have if you want to fight with the LA, the +1 to hit for Dracolines is obviously nice but means you have to fight close to them restricting your command somewhat and the final trait can wreck a big fight for a horde or elite unit but again you're going to be in harms way. If you take the Smouldering Helm from Realms of Magic (saving throws of 6+ cause MW to attacker) they will proc on a 5+ with SD, 4+ if you use the LC's lantern. Combine that with Ear Bursting Roar, LA's flasks and you have an excellent hedgehog type counter attacking unit who can cause enormous damage in defence.

But most heroes specify that units affected by their abilities have to be Hammers. Gavriel can only use his ability on Hammers units for example. Astreia who was explicitly mentioned also can only apply theirs to Hammers and so on. I've got a feeling a lot of people are missing this and taking Gavriel for the charge as well as Staunch Commander etc

Stormhost have to be Hammers if you have a named character just in case you missed it!

I played with this army up to 1000 points (5 Evos and 10 Sequitors though) and it's a very good foundation. Sequitors can tank and cause damage, especially against Nighthaunt or Demons, don't underestimate them. Usually deepstrike Evocators to get them there in one piece. The plus one to wound spell from the Invocation list is beastly when applied to themselves or Sequitors. Arcanum is more fragile than they might seem, definitley a supporting hero. Ballista's real value is as a psychological weapon. Drop it and watch people waste points trying to stop it. Castigators are nothing special unless against Demon or Nighthaunt but they're a 3+ to hit shooting unit with two two attacks two wounds and a 4+ armour save, they're far from disgraceful. 6 of them are a Surprisingly good tarpit/distraction at 1000 points. Many units aren't big enough to finish 12 4+ (3+ with Staunch Defender) saves at that level and if they are chances are they'll waste a lot of their potential through overkillinging them rather than your key units. Also potential rend minus two scioning in is a nice threat or assassination squad for "safe" casters or support heroes. The main issue I've found is lack of bodies for objectives and the means to stop the modifiers that cause mortal wounds which are the bane of SC. So I've gone for ten judicators to hold objectives and free up other guys to fight, and a relictor to manage buffs and debuffs, for my next points drop.

Absolutely. Their model limitation/cost is overcome by their resilience, their damage is good via magic, ranged and combat phase. Their only real weakness is MW's and Masses of attacks but they have plentiful buffs, auras, abilities and traits which can mitigate that and even turn it into a weapon (Halo e.g.) and all of these further enhance the things they're already good at as well. They're incredibly well rounded and you have to really do something dumb regarding your battleplan or roll appallingly to have a bad game with them. They're always there to arm wrestle in the final turn sort of thing.

The overwhelming majority of people don't play tournaments though so that's not really any indication. On a casual basis i.e. The basis that most people play, I can see Stormcast winning a lot of the time. They're easy to pick up and plug into, they're good at most things , they don't require much in the way intricate law interpretation and have few weaknesses in general . For folk just playing at their clubs once a week or less with their pals as most people do, that is going to be much easier to win with than a more specialist army which might be objectively better when properly synergused or optimised but requires more practice and precision to do so. Not to mention financial investment. You can buy an effective SC army cheaply. Other top armies are quite a bit more, and also require far more hobby hours too. You can put most Stormcast units anywhere on the table and get them to do whatever and they'll likely do fine. You can also paint them using whatever method and you'd have to do a really bad job for them to not look serviceable. They give a big return for not much investment on all fronts, which is why I love them really. They're perfect to just play with, you'll have fun, your head won't hurt after, you're unlikely to disgrace yourself and if you play well and roll the averages you're pretty likely to win. I see why people who don't play them get pissed Off at them. They're the Man Utd/New England Patriots of AOS. Sequitors should be 5-10 points more per unit honestly. My unit of 10 rarely miss all their attacks after re-rolls, they put out and survive way more than 120 points per 5. They killed a Great Unclean one about 3 times over last game, even with the relic where he regains all wounds on a 4+, and there were two left over afterwards. 240 points to keep a GU tied down for 3 turns.

So coming from Stormcast that's...too many. I don't think my 2000 pointscarmy has more than 40 models total. And I know what I'm like re painting, I always have to paint things at a more involved level than anticipated even if I'm just trying to get things on the table. Thanks though!

What's a good starting point for 1000 points of Sacrament? (More specifically, just how many skeletons do I have to paint? Inc Sunmons)

I don't know if Stormcast can perform with other options at the highest level. However very few people play at the highest level so it seems a strange metric to go by. Stormcast are very competitive for and against the 95% of people who will use/play against them regardless of faction. And you will get better with them if you work off experience and learning them through play than just the gain saying of people obsessed with playing them at the top level that basically no-one plays at.

I was responding to the list I was quoting weirdly enough aye. Hordes don't tend to cost half an army in points values and can be buffed with summons as well so it's not really an equivalent comparison. Hordes also tend get a per model buff that Evocators don't so don't not require you to ring all of them to bear, they are made better by virtue of just being in the company of their pals. Again, not a buff that Dracoline riders get. I mean I'm sure you can play games with a 20 strong footprint of 40mm bases that is effective in combat but I can't see how you'd do it on a battlefield with an interesting terrain layout, that's some big open spaces you're using!

With a footprint that large your opponent would have to do something seriously weird to let them all, or even a majority, get into combat with something that would make sens. And you're paying 500 more points for less Grand Staves and MW's to get involved than 10 Evocators who with Scions are already pretty mobile and can easily be buffed to become more so.

With a footprint that large your opponent would have to do something seriously weird to let them all, or even a majority, get into combat with something that would make sens. And you're paying 500 more points for less Grand Staves and MW's to get involved than 10 Evocators who with Scions are already pretty mobile and can easily be buffed to become more so.

From memory you only get two or three Greatmauls in the main box, including, confusingly, one on a prime who also has a cache. It makes sense to give the Prime one as that's 3 x 2 Dmg attacks. You might also want to consider dropping the Libs and bringing in the Castigators and the Hailstorm Battery Battalion given you already have 2/3 of units paid for. In certain instances the Drop reduction and ranged damage might be more useful. You can take a relic as well which you haven't yet. Two if you take the Battalion.

You're full of confusing not getting what you want with GW not knowing what it's doing. Also I have nearly a hundred more likes than you despite not being here as long. Some I guess enough users don't consider me passive aggressive. Not wanting to take the thread OT though so apologies to all for any asides

I think GW know better than you how to run their Buisness. You're talking about a company who is in the FTSE 250 on account of selling toy soldiers. They're pretty good at building a reputation.