dmorley21

Way back in this thread I debated with several others about building a NH list like this. In the end, it really came down to play style. I haven't finished assembling 2000 pts of Nighthaunt yet, but I do plan to run double battalions. In the end, it really boils down to the following thoughts for me: Command points. Nighthaunt really need them to be successful. Re-rolling charges, teleporting units, and +1 attacks are all really important to winning a game. You can get extra command points with battalions or by running a list that is light on points. If you run a list that is light on points, which also grants you an opportunity at a triumph. I really do think you need to do one or the other to be successful. Characters. One of the problems with the battalions are how they limit you character choice. Most battalions rely on the fragile character to stay alive. The ones that don't rely on the character staying alive feature less optimal characters. However, the battalions give you an artefact. So while a Cairn Wraith and a Tomb Banshee aren't great, I do think with an artefact (Midnight Tome, Pendant of the Fell Moon, Aetherquartz Brooch, etc.) that they are suddenly useful. Battleline. If you take double battalions, it forces your battleline quite a bit. There's only one battalion that features Reapers, Spirit Hosts, and Hexwraiths while Chainrasps get two. Only the Spirit Host battalion allows you to fulfill your battleline requirements. So can you find a battalion combo that lets you take battleline you're comfortable with? Drops. Lowering your drop count is an important part of taking two battalions, and if you're not trying accomplish a low drop count I'm not really sure that two battalions is the way to go. So you have to make that work as well. This really boils it down to low drops versus running different support characters. If you want a Vampire Lord, Guardian of Souls, named character, Spirit Torment, Dreadblade Harrow... you're better off just skipping the battalions so you can have your characters and your units. I kind of mentioned this, but my two favorite battalions are Death Stalkers and Shrieker Host because their effects don't rely on a certain character surviving. I also think they are both nice complements to the army. All of my lists feature one of those. Chainguard and Shroudguard are probably my favorites to pair with those two because they give me a character I want (Reikenor/GoS) and are decent even though they do rely on a character surviving. This is all theoretical from me though as I have only tried out individual battalions at 1000 pts at this point.

I just read my first Black Library book (Soul Wars) and am grateful for this thread. Does anyone know if any of the stories take place in the realm of Hysh? Thanks!

Yeah, due to my meta, I've never had their debuff work. The 2 damage on a 6 to wound though, that gets overlooked IMO. Makes their damage output equal to Blades on a charge without a ST. But you're still right, as I've found the ability to retreat and charge to be a very versatile ability. I wouldn't consider it exceeding for the reasons you mentioned, but when you've got 4 units and a hero that nullify inspiring presence and make you re-roll battleshock rolls of 1 and you subtract all bravery by 1 by being Nighthaunt... you're going to get the ability off at least once a game even against armies that that seem built against it from my limited experience (I haven't played against BoC or Stormcast).

Yeah, I'm really curious to see how it plays. When I tried out Shrieker Host, I did things the other way... focused on Harridans and ran Myrmourns as tiny units. The Harridans are good (very underrated IMO), however in Shriker Host they really shine against horde units, and Reapers already do that well enough. Myrmourns can fill a much different role though.

I'm not the person you're asking, but both KoS and the ST are great support for the more killy units in NH (Blades, Reapers, Harridans, Banshees). I don't think they're great support for Spirit Hosts, which you said you were running.

I'm surprised the VL ally didn't make it for you. Also, has anyone looked at the list that Ben Savva is taking to UK Masters? It'a very interesting - I can't wait to see how it does.

It just seems too tough to use in NH. The spell is tough to cast, there's no way to buff her casting, then you have to beat the movement. Maybe she'd be better in a LoN army where a mega character can cast her spell.

I have found my games go better when I don't rely on the hero buffs. This allows me to have more board control and to be more selective with what I target. Reapers don't need buffs to take on hordes. Small units of Blades, Harridans, or Death Stalker units are good hero hunters. I will surround a Guardian with Chainrasps, especially if I take that battalion.

That is interesting. I honestly don't get why it's not. Maybe there's hope for the future.

I just returned to the hobby this summer and had success using the white primer by Army Painter for my Nighthaunt models. It was the one my hobby shop recommended to me.

Just curious, since you've actually played with it, how different do you think giving it the "hero" keyword would be? How do you like running an MSU style list? I know one like that recently won a tournament in Sweden. It seems like a good way to get board control, deepstrike, and have more options to get the Wave of Terror. Also, I wish testing was more of an option for me. But, reading actual reports is probably the next best thing.

As someone new to AoS, I don't get the love for the Mourngul. I get that it used to be good, but it's not anymore and it does not fit the aesthetic of Nighthaunt at all. Honestly, it doesn't even look like a ghost. I would much rather figure out uses for the black coach and/or see it get the "Hero" keyword that it really ought to have. Also, has anyone used the Coven Throne as an allie yet?

I thought that the problem with Reapers in LoN was more that they can bring them back and less about Vanhel's. All of your other changes would have to be addressed in the next GHB (points adjustments, battalions) or a new book, which for all intents and purposes is not happening. I do think that the Shroudguard and Black Coach are both at least feasible. And plenty of armies get updates from FAQ's/Errata/GHB. I don't see why Nighthaunt wouldn't. I didn't know about this, as I never played 1.0. That would be quite nice. I don't see Wave of Terror getting any better. If they were to change it, I would changed it to any successful charge made by a unit that just came up from the underworlds or a 10+ any other time. Makes the army more like the shock troops they're meant to be. I'm glad to see there's a lot of support for making the Black Coach a leader. I really don't understand why it's not a leader.

You make very valid points. Maybe I'll purchase her one day... after I finish having a playable 2k list. I wish she was in a battalion. And on that note... I'm not sure how Errata/FAQ's typically work, but come December, we'll be halfway through this season of AoS. So a bit of wish listing, but if they were to make a few small, realistic tweaks for Nighthaunt, what would you all like to see? Here's mine: Make it so Shroudguard gives the hero the 4+/5+ as well. Pretty self explanatory... after all the Blades are supposed to be guarding the hero. Make the Black Coach a Leader. This would be a game changer, and make the model go from rarely used to frequently used IMO. It would be our most durable character, a solid choice for general, and would be something that could really take advantage of some artefacts that our army can't take advantage of currently. Make Deathmages allies. This makes sense for fluff reasons - and the Mortis Engine really looks like it ought to be Nighthaunt. Both Necromancers and the Mortis Engine would be useful allies. I think those three changes are all reasonable and would all be boons for the army. What are everybody else's thoughts?

I'm reminded of a quote from Amy Tan's short story, "Rules of the Game." The quote is, "Strongest wind cannot be seen." I bring this up because a) I'm a teacher, and b) I feel like Lady Olynder is a terrible smell hero assassin because she's such a presence. I know that if I was facing an army that featured Lady O, I'd make her a target. Meanwhile, if I was facing an army with two units of 4 Glavewraith Stalkers, I'd probably just ignore them until they got in my way. You have some merit about the Harridans and Bladegheists. However, that's also 30 more points for one more trooper. Granted, they're still not the greatest; but maybe they do have a use.

I felt similar when I played my first games (1k) with a unit of 10 Harridans. They were quite good, and didn't necessarily need support. I wished for Bladegheists at times just because with the ability to retreat and charge I could have taken out support heroes pretty easily had I had them instead, but the Harridans worked well without support. I do wonder if we focus too much on getting our troops support heroes; when our support heroes are squishy, expensive, and difficult to keep things lined up so they can support anyway. I'd have no problem taking both a unit of 12 myrmourns and a unit of 4. In my limited experience playing AoS and playing WHFB for years before, the advantage of small units is that they tend to get ignored by opponents, especially if you set them up to be away from objectives and the rest of your army. Opponents don't necessarily want to commit to dealing with them and not dealing with more pressing matters. Maybe that's just the opponents I play though. On another note... Let's talk about Glavewraith Stalkers. I've been completely overlooking them as it seems like they're outclassed in almost every way by other units. However, I'm starting to think I was looking at them wrong. First off, they're a unit that doesn't need support heroes. With a drummer, they can retreat and charge. If they charge or get charged, they get to re-roll their attacks. Quick math, but a unit of 4 then statistically scores 6 hits, 4 wounds. This means each model ought to deal a wound in combat. Now granted, they have no rend so a lot of those wounds will be saved. But, they seem like an ideal unit to hunt down the lesser characters of other armies, which is kind of their point in the fluff. For instance, when I played LoN, they would have excelled at hunting down my opponent's Necromancers and Wight King. What are people's thoughts on this use for them? I've seen people say they used them to sit on objectives, but has anybody ran them to hero hunt?

I wonder if this is also a case for running battalions. That extra CP it gives you can be clutch.

There was another strong Nighthaunt finish at a tournament in California. The list isn't posted, but the top 10 armies are in a thread in the general discussion. Edit: Also, keep posting battle reports! They're a great learning tool when you don't have people to play test games with.

There's some legitimate gripes with the book, but I feel like the gameplay for this army is different than what's been discussed. This isn't an alpha strike army or an attrition army; it's a hybrid of the two. We can deep strike to set up mismatches and take out or hurt key units. Our troops in general are fast, tanky against non-mortals, and can hit hard. Hit the enemy and board in strategic spots. Set up mismatches so that our units can be as effective as possible. Then after that initial wave, it becomes a battle of attrition with our ghosts being able to outmaneuver most opponents. But we won't win the battle of attrition unless we deep strike first IMO.

I really like your list! I think it definitely has some potential. If you inflict the mortal wound on yourself and avoid an unbind, you've got over a 91% chance of casting Cogs. There will be the odd game where you don't get it off, but it's fairly reliable. With Cogs, you need to roll a 7 on the charge that can be re-rolled if you have a CP and a close enough hero. I'm not sure of the math on that, but it's definitely more likely to pull off than not. And, as you mentioned, Death Riders need a 6, though Hexwraiths are so fast they may not need to hide in the underworld. I think Reikenor+Cogs+Deepstrike is very viable, but certainly not automatic.

I'm still trying to learn how to paint, but I'm hoping to base my Nighthaunt so that it looks like they're coming out of the fog. Something like this link: https://imgur.com/e6uDltB The mounted KoS is 140 pts. My problem is the characters simply get targeted so quickly. My opponents and I were all brand new to the game, and they still took out my characters by the end of the 2nd turn. I don't see a way to keep them alive and I feel like their buffs are nice, but not mandatory for our army. Reapers, Bladegheists, Harridans, and Myrmourns all don't mind getting buffed by characters but can also work on their own. If I include one, I'm going with one that flies so that it has the same movement capabilities as the rest of our army. I don't think the one riding an ethereal steed gets Ethereal or Fly.

The more I hear stuff like this, the more I think that the "support" heroes aren't truly worth it when you could just get more troops. I'll still always take a GoS and Reikenor, but I'm really not sold on any other characters at this point.

I doubt it was due to being rushed, as it seems unlikely so much would change so quickly, but yeah there's a lot of strange choices/synergies throughout the book. Dreadblades due seem like they ought to have been a small, elite cavalry unit. It would also make sense if they were part of the Shroudguard battalion, instead of Bladegheists, which are supposed to have the least control of any unit in the army. Chainghasts, meanwhile, seem like they should have been a special unit that could only be taken in addition to a Spirit Torment kind of like the Briar Queen and her Thorns. It also seems like the Chainghasts and ST should be naturally buffing Chainrasps and not Bladegheists. It makes no sense to me that the Black Coach is not a leader as it features a Cairn Wraith and the spirit of a Necromancer or Vampire Lord. And as many others have stated, it seems like the Guardian of Souls dual kit should have been a regular release. Then the LE could have been the store birthday release or could have been the 500th anniversary release with the Bladegheist character being an actual character. But I suppose we can all wish list! I love your breakdown, but disagree with your rankings. Death Riders just requires too many units that aren't good enough. I'd say the battalions that are definitely useful are Shroudguard, Chainguard, The Condemned. Then Death Stalkers (as it requires a weak hero and 2 weak units) and Death Riders. Then Shrieker Host and Execution Horde.

I still don't think Death Riders can work as the core of an army, even though it's so expensive it has to be more or less. But, hey, I'll be happy to be proven wrong! I don't see a purpose for the unit of 5 Hexwraiths. I know it's thematic, but I'd rather have 20 Chainrasp Horde to sit on an objective. Even with the 9+ Wave of Terror, I just don't see you killing enough with that list to make such a small list effective.

The best solution is probably to choose a battalion and run with that as a theme.