Skabnoze

That does not seem likely to ever happen. Maybe if they decided to break Skaven off into it's own full Grand Alliance - but they appear to be solidly within the Chaos camp for AoS. A full battletome for every skaven clan would make them comprise roughly half of the entire Chaos Grand Alliance and that feels very out of place given that they have expressed many times that the Horned Rat is the currently the lesser of all the Chaos gods. They simply did not set up Skaven within AoS to take on such a large role that each clan should warrant their own distinct model range and dedicated battletome. If they had rolled Skaven into the Destruction Grand Alliance rather than Chaos then multiple Skaven books would probably have made more sense. I do wish that they had put made new kits for the Skaven with this release though. They have some plastic kits that could benefit from being reworked and a lot of finecast that they could have removed. But a good book update is nothing to scoff at and this new book sounds like it will be pretty expansive. Hopefully it delivers most of what Skaven players want in regards to rules and army structure. Honestly, having all of the clans rolled together into a larger allegiance, but with the option to play specific clan allegiances should provide for more variable builds overall. There is also a lot of modeling potential to be had with a structure like that for hobbyists that like to take on conversion projects.

Just use them as another type of troll. That is what I plan to do with mine. Honestly, if you don't want them then send me a PM and I might take them off your hands.

A lot of the moonclan grot ones don't.

Swap one of what - a bonegrinder?!!

Yes. This is what I am talking about! I’m not sure that the mommet will do much for this force though. It is not really lacking for rend.

No. Fanatics are a separate unit entirely. They hide in a unit for deployment purposes, but they are still functionally a separate unit. In addition, they do not have the grots keyword necessary to receive the Stab Em Good buff. That said, the fanatics don’t really need that buff anyways. They hit like a sack of bricks to the face without any buffs.

On the flip side - it does seem like a Troll thing to do!

Well, what can I say - I like giants. And what is better than a giant? An even bigger giant - thats what! I have to say that I don't care for the Forgeworld model though. I would probably end up getting a couple 3rd party models and also converting some. I had been trying to decide if I should buy one of the ones I like or start on the conversion ideas that I have been thinking of. Maybe I should just do all of the above!

I expected there was some distinction about this. Is this explained in the main rulebook or is it in the GHB? Well, even outside of the battalion I am pretty excited that he can be included without using the ally slot. That means I can take more than one. EDIT: So I dug into the core rulebook and found it: pages 239-240. This also means that Mollog does not count for the Trogg Herd battalion.

On the flip side, it never hurts to put most of the inane discussion in one place.

Political office?

So I have seen it mentioned that Mollog can be taken in a Trogg Herd battalion because he has the Dankhold and Troggoth keywords and the battalion mentions units of Dankhold Troggoths as one of the inclusions. If this keyword interpretation is correct then that indicates that we can take a Bonegrinder Gargant in a Trogg Herd battalion since he has both the "Aleguzzler" and "Gargant" keywords and the battalion says 0-1 Aleguzzler Gargants. The Bonegrinder also has the Gloomspite Gitz keyword so we can bring him without spending ally points. If I am interpreting this correctly then that is kinda bonkers. He is pretty much a humongous Stone Troll and I think he is a pretty fantastic unit. He also has a ton of attacks and if he can indeed fit into the battalion he benefits from it more than many other units.

Speaking of Bonegrinders, I was just looking and I noticed that he now has the Gloomspite Gitz keywords. That means that we can take him in lists without worrying about ally points. And that means that we are no longer restricted to just a single one. Move over 4 Troll Hag army - here comes the 4 Bonegrinder Gargant army!!! I just might have to do this... So, 4 Bonegrinder Gargants comes to 1600 points. If we use a moonclan general then we can take squigs as battleline so that is 180 for 3 min units. That leaves 220 for whichever general you want and something else. That is amazing...

I love the barrel armor grot. I have had a grot hero with great weapon for a number of years now that is an old metal fanatic sticking out of a barrel that is being carried around by a snotling. Barrels seem like a useful armor source for gobbos. I also like Giants and had been considering building a shroom giant. It looks like you beat me to the punch. Well done! Maybe I will just have to go bigger and make a Bonegrinder mushroom man...

If you can tailor for certain matches then the grip makes sense. But for general purpose the club is probably the better all-round choice.

The more interesting question I think is which attack is better to build around generally. My hunch is the club. To get the most mileage from the kill attack you need to engage a fair amount of 3-5 wound models and still have club targets once you kill 1-2. Otherwise you might as well just club smash everything.

That is all I was asking. The data was already on your chart and I ran the numbers also. You just mentioned a 50% chance to kill a 5 wound model in the first post and the odds for that particular scenario is 80%. I never questioned the validity of the numbers, just how you elaborated on that specific scenario. But I guess the real question is how valuable is it to buff up the kill attack rather than the club attack. Both seem like they would be useful in different circumstances, but it strikes me that beefing up the club is more universally useful.

I know that is what your chart represented - but your description of it seemed wrong. A single attack with a reroll has a ~55% chance to kill a 5 wound model. 2 chances that each have a reroll should result in about 79.5%.

Isn't this an 80% chance to kill a single 5 wound model - or am I reading the graph wrong? Just with one attack and a reroll you end up with 1/3 + (2/3 * 1/3) = ~0.55

I was unaware that you could use additional attack items for the Crushing grip. I assume this is possible because it is listed as a separate weapon - rather than similar abilities like on Giants which are special abilities and not specifically a separate weapon? Have we definitively determined that: 4 attacks at 2+/2+/-2/d6 rerolling the d6 damage & rerolling 1s to hit is greater than: 5 attacks at 3+/3+/-2/d6 rerolling the d6 damage & rerolling 1s to hit I honestly think this might end up simply being a personal preference thing as they are going to be very close. And while we can pull averages, we are talking so few rolls for any specific combat that these are going to be relatively distinct events and less representative of averages.

If you take the command ability where you can reroll the club damage for the Troggboss then I am almost certain that an extra attack will statistically end up being the best way to go (in terms of offense). If you are planning to take a different command ability then Ghyrstrike might end up better - but I would need to stop being lazy and actually do the math. And of course, there is always the option to take non-combat oriented items and that changes the discussion quite a bit.

It is worth doing the math or just testing out with both weapons. I think they would end up quite close to be honest. But I am still pondering whether a full extra attack ends up being a bit better.

Itchy nuisance is such an amazing spell because it grants the casting player more freedom in regards to the order that they can activate their units and restricts how the enemy can activate theirs. There are a number of shenanigans that you can do with this spell.

The abilities that trigger when you roll a 6 to wound or 6 to hit trigger just for that single attack. So for example, with the Troggboss if he wounded someone 3 times by rolling a 3, 5, 6 and he has an ability that triggers on a 6 to wound, then the damage he inflicts would be d6, d6, d6 +2. In addition, you would need to have your opponent roll their saves separately since they can save specifically against the attack that generated extra damage and you would lose the bonus damage.

I am starting to consider items that grant extra attacks rather than Ghyrstrike or some of the others. So the Troggboss command ability grants an aura to reroll attack rolls of 1 and he benefits from this. There is not a ton of other stuff to use command points on in a pure Troggoth army, so I expect this ability is going to be active for most of the important combats that the Troggboss is in. With that ability active he becomes fairly accurate and a +1 to hit is something I don't really feel is necessary. The +1 to wound is better, as he will still fail to wound 1/3 of the time, but each attack he makes potentially hits like a freight train. Depending upon the command abilities that you take I am starting to wonder if it is generally better to give the Troggboss more attacks than it is to beef up the ones that he already has.