Riff_Raff_Rascal
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Everything posted by Riff_Raff_Rascal
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@sorokyl I would second @Skreech Verminking painting advice. I painted 160 clanrats by hand. Including the base coat. Nobody ask why. I apparently had nothing else going on. Dont do that for the base coat. Use any brown spray of matte finish. In addition, you may want to quick base them. If doing the quick route, spray your base coat with the model on base, then clear drying glue, then your sand/dirt. The dark brown base coat will act as your shade without spending time actually putting a shade on each clanrat. Also in line with Skreech, use agrax earthshade if at all. My friends often push me to use nuln oil, to make 'em "dirtier rats". Nuln oil is the bane of color and contrast, especially if you wont add more layers afterward. Less important but a matter of opinion, recommend spending the time to paint ears, nose and tail with bugman's glow instead of cadian fleshtone. They are the most unique feature of ye' rats as opposed to other humanoid battlelines out there. Bugman's glow is more pink as well, as opposed to the lighter flesh tones of the other humanoid miniatures. You can always add cadian later if you dont like it. Most importantly, do other fun projects in between. Do 20 clanrats, then a hero for example. This is a marathon, no need to get em all done at once.
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@Gwendar Yeah, the straight MW output makes it tough to feel like you're playing the actually game of AOS (no attack sequence and the like). Lots of new players would assume Skryre works on a whole 'nother level. I'm curious though if you felt like you were having fun playing Skryre. It sounds more like you guilt tripped yourself out of playing gautfyre at least. Personally, the moments I don't play gautfyre are when I think that it wont be fun, not because of what my opponent might think but rather the army being somewhat one-dimensional.
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I run Gautfyre every so often in casual matches and I have been surprised at how limiting it still is. The first turn crunch can be devastating against low model count high armor armies like stormcast but any army that has any amount of chaff with or without deploying them correctly quickly eats up all the MW output the enginecoven has. I have yet to win turn one with it, despite it being a devastating turn to say the least, and my opponents know to hang in there. I would argue that the feeling of being "that guy" is usually elevated by the match-up of armies, especially against most Order lists.
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@walheimOoh, ooh, I almost forgot I did this last week with a pair of Skaven Assassins. It wont really help your list but you have your offensive conga line right? Well lets say there's a pesky hero/monster/wizard thing attacking your conga line. You're like "filthy no-fur won't leave-leave", and you're opponent is like "what are you talking about?" Anyways, the first rats die but leaving one 2.5'' away locking down hero. At the beginning of the next combat, pop out so many assassins at the end of the line 5'' away from the hero. If he piles in, he can only attack the clanrats, then guess who's in combat? All of your assassins. If he doesn't pile in, he's still stuck in combat hopefully outside their melee range. If he does, then well have fun. Its filthy. Especially if one of the rat boys has a realm artifact.
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@walheim I haven't tried it yet but frankly this is where a lot of the weapon teams really shine. Your opponent is taking so long to kill clanrats you can park any short range weapon team in the vicinity. Rattling gunners are my favorite if your locking down horde units, because they get +1 to hit if they are within 9''. Alternatively, clanrats can't really lock down single models right? Because the monster/hero's power isn't diminished after they pile in. To compensate, park warpfire throwers nearby. Ideally, you've locked everything down with swarms so they can get real close. The addition of weapons teams in this manner are great if you anticipate losing rats way too fast. Personally I've considered the "rat-drafting" with any unit in this way for full effect. It was because I found some match-ups don't favor the clanrat shenanigans. I found myself against Slaneesh and DOK. Any army that can pile-in more than 3'' is the real problem, not the overall shredding power of their units. Also stuff like Megabosses just don't stop swinging which inspired the warpfire throwers.
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@walheim The next level of verminous shenanigans is stormvermin charge and retreat. Keep doing what you are doing with clanrats but keep a squad of stormvermin about 3-4 inches from the clanrat at the head of the conga line (the one engaged with an opponents unit) . Opponents who get greedy want to pile in on that one clanrat to maximize damage, angry that you pull such cheap tactics. Guess who's now in combat? the stormvermin. You may not get the best pile-in but its always activating 2nd after the nearest enemy unit so they're safe. On your turn, you can retreat and charge with everything to best optimize your battle round. Enjoy.
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Plague priests have been the talk of the town. I'm not a fan. Not at all. My dissenting opinion concerns the practical use of them in a game. Whats the range of the prayer? 13 in. When is it used? Hero phase. Here's the scenarios where you can make it work: A) opponent charged you on their turn, doing a full round of combat and you not yet having a debuff on the enemy in retaliation, then its your turn, now an enemy is in range or B) you skitterleaped a priest into range ahead of charging clanrats/stormvermin, then press B to pray. Generally, opponents that are in your face turn 1 are where pestilen units really shine since so many cool abilities proc at the beginning of your turn and in short range. While skaven in general are fast, we are not yet built to be in an opponents face turn 2 even. If you wanna run a priest, just know its a hero that I would say doesn't get used effectively until turn 3. Whereas a Warlock engineer can spit out mortal wounds every turn and give spell support. Using the priest to Max/Min your vermintide's damage output is enticing, but its also a great exercise in understanding threat ranges, timing and positioning. I recommend leaning on warlords since their FAQ'd command ability already provides enough of these concepts to practice in pick-up games.
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@walheim a skaven general with a plan, I like it. Keep us posted
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@walheim Looking good on those guys. And I say clan Verminous in spirit. Dont feel like you should pigeon hole yourself with playing the allegience unless you want to have more units of stormvermin and less clanrats (which would be intimidating for an opponent). But no, I recommend mixed skaven (chaos) allegience so you can play with all the toys. Based on synergies and what you have its still clan verminous in spirti. Another hobby tip: I wouldn't wait to base you 25 mm bases, in fact I'd do 'em first before the model. On such a small space, you'll be spending so much time avoiding glue or bits on your finely painting stormvermin. Its much better to accidentally brush the base with that red or black afterward. I remember having a tough time getting full coverage on my bases because I couldn't effectively avoid hitting parts of the model between the legs. That said, they are a horde unit, and for tabletop play no one should care too much about the bases on 25 mm so just choose your battles on so many models. @Skreech Verminking Yeah if possible all the warpfire. Unfortunately you'll recall, those kits don't have enough to make more than 1 of each loadout. So clever GW, now we need to buy this person 2 more sets of stormfiends.
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@walheim Your heart wants to play clan Verminous. I'd go with Warbringer. Recommend you play packmaster with stormfiends, you'll thank us later. A great distraction for your opponent is the hellpit abomination. It has been lots of fun for myself as a one-off choice. And if you play the packmaster, its a little extra sumpin-sumpin for your shenanigans. And your insticts I like: play all the stormvermin. Have fun. As for building and painting I'm curious how experienced you are with starting an army. I would only recommend starting on your clanrats or stormvermin. They'll be good practice for color schemes for your larger models. The great thing about horde armies is that theres lots of small models to practice techniques on. Specifically for the stormfiends, those guys are so cool and have so much detail, I urge you to paint parts separately and not assemble everything right away. I loved how mine turned out but all those wires, tubes and armor made it frustrating when I made this mistake.
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@Skreech Verminking that -2 to hit is true skaven debauchery especially on a small hero weilding an artifact. At this point I don't care what the artifact is, I just don't want them to blow up. I just want to showcase what the deathrunner can do to my friends. I just want to have fun with the unit gosh dang it. The simple case is both overlap a clanrat unit that got smashed. Suddenly both trigger the battleshock immune ability. Firstly, the conservative case is that this passive ability "triggers" and thus is considered being used. Secondly, technically, stacked triggers must be chosen by the active player. If read word for word, both triggers remove the other model even though the first model is removed. If both triggers happen simultaneously, then they just blow up as well. I'm at a standstill. Theres no way I'd bother doing it in a fun game as well, because friends of mine wont let me and call me a dirty skaven cheater (I take that as a compliment of course). @Kramer For the love of the Great Horned One please find that source. I need something to quell my restlessness of this ruling for better or worse.
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Random shot in the dark, but has anyone witnessed a Deathrunner with an artifact played in a list. I'm aware of the FAQ about the illusion disappearing after the "use" of an artifact but I still can't get over passive abilities possibly triggering this effect. I still can't find a way to ask GW this question directly but wanted to hear everyone's experiences. For reference: ‘When this Skaven Deathrunner is set up, place both of its Skaven Deathrunner models on the battlefield. They do not need to be within 1" of each other. When one of these Skaven Deathrunner models attacks or uses an ability, command trait or artefact of power, then the other model is removed from play. If one of these Skaven Deathrunner models is slain, roll a dice. On a 1-3, the other model is removed from play. On a 4+, the other model is not removed from play.’
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@Gwendar You are essentially running a verminous/eshin list, which by that I mean synergies in both. Don't forget you squeezed in the verminlord deceiver, he's got a sweet little command ability you can use if nothing else is going on. Teleport him to the back line turn one (as a options), movement phase the gutter runners come in front of him, the command ability is a static aura till next hero phase, and get re-rolls on wounds on eshin shooting and melee. After that, turn two you can proceed with the verminous shenanigans. Or both. One thing to keep in mind, verminous LOVES command points. If you ever want to cut stuff, hold off on units to start the game with extra command points for Inspiring Presence, the deceivers ability, and warlords ability, all within a two turn span. Just a suggestion.
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@Gwendar Just deepstrike the whole army. Your list is mobile, agile, hostile. That looks fun.
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@Skreech Verminking I dunno, pretty sure stormvermin would get the buff. I'm trying to think against what armies I would choose to engage a bigger chunks of dudes. They're role in my mind is to hit first against elite units and not chaff. I suggested to gwendar to split 'em up to protect against early range attacks. They're so expensive to lose, I'd hate to get a whole block wiped out by a Curse of Years and prefer to only lose 10.
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@Gwendar To Brood Horror or Not to Brood Horror that is the question. Ask yourself exactly what you're trying to buff, where you're buffing and when you're in the buffing mood. The hardest part about the "combat phase" command ability is being in position after the verminous unit has charged. The Brood Horror version gives the bigger bubble, is faster to run ahead of the verminous unit before the charge, and indeed gives off a bigger bubble for the crown. All of this makes me lean towards keeping him on your main line while if you feelin' frisky, teleport the cheaper warlords behind your deepstriking unit since they're more disposable. As for the Warpgnaw, hell yeah. +5 feel no pain, starting at 5 dmg per swing, reliable teleport ability and a spell that is unique enough to provide just the possibility to remove an untransformed Morathi off the board turn one. Its role however is not to teleport a big blob because of its "wholly within" restrictions, assuming you wanna try to charge the turn they drop. I instead propose you take objectives with a blob, or even more spicy, a unit of Jezzails in perfect LOS of a juicy target AND out of range for a counter charge. Alternatively, even though I said not to, get the warlord on brood horror in the warp, drop behind the blob of dudes from the warpgrinder team and have fun.
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@Gwendar I very much love that list. Frankly you don't have to have to tunnel the stormvermin either. You're flexible during deployment to drop in 40 clanrats on a back line objective for a solid threat. Also, the gutter runners essentially serve the same role as your deep striking stormvermin so you don't necessarily need to deploy them the way you describe. But my point is the flexibility of deployment you have depending on your opponents shooting. Without changing too much I would only recommend splitting up your stormvermin into units of 10. Decentralizing your heavy hitting blobs is a good tactic against magic and shooting especially when the start on the field and they cost the same. By the by, as a longtime verminous player myself, use your clanrats (or any chaff unit) this way...
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@Num I beg to differ about the stormvermin. In a vacuum, the monks are better on their own, yes. But if you give them an extra attack with a command ability whether its the warlord or verminlord corruptor, they're guaranteed to hit harder. Its the built in rend that really makes it worth their price when they pop up. That said I'm open to feedback on my list. Allegiance: Chaos LEADERS Verminlord Warbringer (280) Skaven Warlord (100) - General - Command Trait : Lord of War - Shield & Warpforged Blade Grey Seer (100) Grey Seer (100) Verminlord Deceiver (300) UNITS 20 x Clanrats (120) -Rusty Spear 20 x Clanrats (120) -Rusty Spear 20 x Clanrats (120) -Rusty Spear 30 x Stormvermin (420) -Halberd & Shield 1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80) ENDLESS SPELLS Umbral Spellportal (60) Chronomantic Cogs (60) The Burning Head (40) I'm curious if the rat generals 'round these parts know what I'm going for here. And yes, its clearly an unbalanced list but turn 1 shenanigans is where its at.
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Has there been any eratta to Skritch spiteclaw? 'Cause I'm looking to abuse the fact that his warscroll's command ability is actually very different than the generic warlord's. I was thinking of doing something sneaky-sneak similar to @Gwendar above and tunnel up, wrap stormvermin completely around and skitterleap skritch into position. I have to ask due to the eratta on the generic Warlord command ability and if that would include Skritch despite being a named character and considering that the command ability name (Gnash-gnaw on their bones!) are the same. Does the FAQ affect all abilities named as such? Or just for stuff on the generic warlord. For reference, here's spiteclaw' warscroll (released 02/07/2018) and the Chaos FAQ (23/07/2018) https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads//aos-warscroll-spiteclaws-swarm-en.pdf https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_grand_alliance_chaos_errata_en.pdf
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@TheWilddog while doomwheels die quickly, they are indeed attention grabbers. For instance, I ran them up on either side of an orcs opponent and appropriately they split out two units to fight them. One of which was an elite unit (Brutes) and rightfully killed the doomwheel in one stroke. But an interesting thing happened: those units were marooned for a whole turn which let me deal quite well with the rest of the army. I would propose that they are flashy enough to entice such elite units out to the sides by using their speed to position themselves in range to shoot such elite units but also providing the only decent charge for that target unit. It forces a choice on an opponent to either give chase with an expendable unit for a later attack and leave the elites to get into the thick of it. Or, just kill the damn doomwheel but, at the very least, putting them well out of position. Certainly other armies have units that do this better, and the mobility of some armies ignore this completely, but its a start.
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On a seperate note, the topic of doomwheels; I'm using them, its happening, you cant stop me. But I've had real trouble determing what their actual battlefield role is. Quite frankly, I'd rather be shooting with them than charging in. They flank well enough, they engage fast enough. But as a harassing unit, they're not exactly something that I want to expect to die so quickly. I thought about running a crew of 'em up the side, skitterleap in a disposable General to proc the Deranged inventor command trait (which by the way is the only skryre war machines that even needs it).
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@Gwendar true true. moderation is key. Generally if Im heavy skryre anyways I'll have an archwarlock and engineer. Thats enough magic in most cases. The gutter runners I've used before but not combined with skryre heavy lists. didn't think to use them in that role (keeping the pressure off) but I'll try it next time.
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Despite my schemes amongst skryre and mixed magic skaven lists, I've gotten much feedback on the nature of magic's usefulness for skaven. On one hand, its all long range mortal wounds and devastating against already terrible magic armies, but on the other its not at all as effecient with magic armies that also have a battletome spell list. I have decided to push further into shooting. A mob of mortar teams or trio of lightning cannons will do the trick. Jezzails, while I love them, have become difficult to boost their to-hit roll for their headshot proc. Alternatively pestilens have the foulrain congregation that absolutely destroys a mob, not to mention snipes large heroes at that. Of course all of this shooting is in response to everyone around me casting way better magic.
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Sadly that is accurate. I suffer from a heavy death meta at the moment and +1 dispels abound. Its either that or I'm playing against stormcast which dont run heavy magic anyways and I already whip them good. Its not a huge deal anyways as I just play narrative or fun pick-up games.
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Have you ever skitterleaped the rat while on top a vortex? I'm curious how that plays out. Especially if you can teleport right next to arcane terrain to begin with.
