Move, pile-in and charging in other phases and with battalions rules

[NineTails]

Hola!

Can you help with understanding wording of some abilities and battalions?

1. destruction move- d6 move in hero phase and you can not move in 3'' range with enemy models (further just "close combat"). Right?

2. pile in always for models in cc. Right?

3. KDK battalion "Hot-Headed Conquerors"- you can move on d6 and you can get into cc as if it is cahrge. Right?

4. Khorne "Apoplectic Frenzy"- affects units only in cc alreday. Right?

5. Khorne "Fierce Rivals"- same thing. Right?

6. Khorne "Aqshy's Bane"- still same thing. Still right?

 

So the main question is- can unit pile-in even if it is out of close combat?

[Ratamaplata]

If casualties have been removed due to another unit attacking first you can end up having successfully completed a charge but now being outside 3".

[Ratamaplata]

Cool cheers  I thought that was the case but it just seems a bit weird.

[KnightFire]

Yes, and there are some clever things you can do with this, such as charging a chaff unit into a combat where you expect a different unit to wipe out the enemy, and then using the pile-in move from the chaff (because they charged) to screen the combat unit to prevent a counter charge.

[rokapoke]

15 minutes ago, Ratamaplata said:

But it could be that the unit you charged got totally wiped so then could you end up piling in towards a totally different unit 20" away?

Yep -- but you completed a charge, so you were in combat. Simple ruleset, lots of complexity in the game.

[Ratamaplata]

36 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

Think of it as representing combat happening simultaneously, rather than each unit waiting for its turn to fight. 

But it could be that the unit you charged got totally wiped so then could you end up piling in towards a totally different unit 20" away?

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, Ratamaplata said:

This is what I'm not sure about. Nothing in the rules says you can't but it seems weird that you might be piling in to an enemy you have no chance of reaching.

Think of it as representing combat happening simultaneously, rather than each unit waiting for its turn to fight. 

[Ratamaplata]

46 minutes ago, stato said:

Interesting. So if a unit successfully charged but their opponent has been wiped out before you activate them, you still get to pile in 3" towards the nearest enemy, even though that model may be many inches away.

This is what I'm not sure about. Nothing in the rules says you can't but it seems weird that you might be piling in to an enemy you have no chance of reaching.

[stato]

Interesting. So if a unit successfully charged but their opponent has been wiped out before you activate them, you still get to pile in 3" towards the nearest enemy, even though that model may be many inches away.

[Jharen]

Nope, no strategy, just pushing all the models into the middle of the table at random in AoS!

 

Updated my original post with the additional information so any future reads don't get confused.  Thanks guys.

[BaldoBeardo]

Ah, yes, fair point!  Thanks for clarifying with the specific situation of events you were getting at there.

But remember, there's no strategy in AoS... [emoji12]

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[Jharen]

Ah, yes, fair point!  Thanks for clarifying with the specific situation of events you were getting at there.

[BaldoBeardo]

Except it's possible with removal of casualties for a unit that charged to not be within 3" when it is activated in the combat phase.

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[Jharen]

A successful charge is within 1/2", which would mean you're within 3"...

Charging: "The first model you move must finish within ½" of an enemy model. If that’s impossible, the charge has failed and no models in the charging unit can move in this phase."

Combat Phase:  "Any unit that has charged or has models within 3" of an enemy unit can attack with its melee weapons in the combat phase."

So any unit that has charged to be within 3" of an enemy model or is already within 3" of an enemy model may pile in and attack.

[Ratamaplata]

8 hours ago, Jharen said:

The UNIT does need to be within 3" to pile in, because if they are not within 3" they are not in combat and can move normally within the movement phase.

As to your other question:

Yes, you may pile in so long as the unit is in combat.  The model you pile in with simply needs to end his pile in move closer to the nearest enemy model than he started out.  You also must not break unit cohesion.

No mate read the rules again. You do not need to be within 3" if you completed a successful charge.

[stato]

-

[BaldoBeardo]

The UNIT does need to be within 3" to pile in, because if they are not within 3" they are not in combat and can move normally within the movement phase.
As to your other question:
Yes, you may pile in so long as the unit is in combat.  The model you pile in with simply needs to end his pile in move closer to the nearest enemy model than he started out.  You also must not break unit cohesion.

No, units can pile-in if they successfully charged, even if currently outside 3" of any enemy models.

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[Jharen]

5 minutes ago, Ratamaplata said:

Model or unit... the point is you don't need to be within 3" to pile in. You need to be within 3" OR completed a successful charge.

 

Question I always have is... can you still make a pile in move even if it won't put any models into attack range?

The UNIT does need to be within 3" to pile in, because if they are not within 3" they are not in combat and can move normally within the movement phase.

As to your other question:

Yes, you may pile in so long as the unit is in combat.  The model you pile in with simply needs to end his pile in move closer to the nearest enemy model than he started out.  You also must not break unit cohesion.

[Ratamaplata]

14 hours ago, Jharen said:

Yes, correct, my bad wording there.  It should have said 'unit' not 'model'.

Model or unit... the point is you don't need to be within 3" to pile in. You need to be within 3" OR completed a successful charge.

 

Question I always have is... can you still make a pile in move even if it won't put any models into attack range?

[Jharen]

Yes, correct, my bad wording there.  It should have said 'unit' not 'model'.

[Ratamaplata]

7 minutes ago, Jharen said:

2) Piling In:  It can only be done if the model is within 3" of an enemy model UNLESS the ability states specifically that they can do otherwise.  Some abilities allow models to pile in longer distances but still require you to be within 3" to actually initiate the pile in.

You can pile in if you made a successful charge regardless of whether there is an enemy model within 3".

[Jharen]

1) Rampaging Destroyers:  You move d6 inches as if it were the movement phase, following all the same rules that would apply there with the except of running.  So no, you may not close within 3" of an enemy model with this move.

2) Piling In:  It can only be done if the UNIT is within 3" of an enemy model UNLESS the ability states specifically that they can do otherwise.  Some abilities allow units and/or models to pile in longer distances but still require you to be within 3" to actually initiate the pile in.

3) Hot-Headed Conquerors: Yes, you may use this d6 move as a charge.

4) Apoplektic Frenzy:  The unit must be capable of piling in and attacking.  Normally this requires you to be within 3".  There are few exception to this.  A units warscrolls states exactly that they may pile in without being within 3" if they are able to do so.

5) Fierce Rivals:  Yes, same thing.

6) Aqshy's Bane: Yes same thing.

 

Additional:  If your unit has completed a successful charge, it is able to pile in even if it is no longer within 3" of an enemy model (due to casualty removal, combat phase moves, etc).

 

On 5/16/2017 at 1:05 AM, NineTails said:

So the main question is- can unit pile-in even if it is out of close combat?

The FAQ answers this question on page 4:

Q: If a unit, like a High Elf Prince on Griffon, has the ability to pile in 6" rather than the standard 3", can they pile in and attack in the combat phase if their unit is more than 3" from the enemy?

A: No, unless specifically stated otherwise.