The blades of Khorne - March to summer slaughter

[Killax]

Well I do agree that it is a lot of points for Support, however my opinion on Gore Pilgrims is indeed what most have and that's that it is a great Battalion. 
The way I see it however is that you do want to have a force build for it, which in my opinion demands at least the same ammount of big block units as you have Slaughterpriests  In addition the biggest part of it for me is the re-roll function for Prayers, 4+ is still 50/50 otherwise.

The Valkia looks awesome though and in general I believe everybody should build and play as they like  

[Terry Pike]

I ran Gore Pilgrims at SCGT and came 9th with:

BloodSecrator
Priest with +1 save
Priest with +1 hit
10 Bloodwarriors
10 Bloodwarriors
10 Bloodreavers

The 30" range banner deploys pretty much on the 12" line behind some terrain making him hard to get to, plants the banner the entire game giving you board wide +1 attack and forcing your opponent to re-roll successful castings in their own deployment area which is very strong with all the casting going on right now.

If you are running Blade of Khorne this formation is pretty much an auto include as the new priest abilities are strong and being able to re-roll them just cant be ignored. The stuff in the formation is stuff you would take anyway so making the banner and the priests even stronger makes this a top pick for me. I think we'll be seeing Murderhost/Gore pilgrim mix as the go to Khorne list until people figure out some stronger combos in the book.

[Killax]

@Terry Pike Yeah I think Gore Pilgrims is great but again I don't think you will always need to include it, by large because on non-SCGT events there is very little in stopping us from going into old routes, such as body massing with multiple Bloodsecrators or a massive horde of Skullcrushers with Brass Stampede or massive horde of Bloodletters with Murderhost.

Increasing the range/quality of a single Bloodsecrator certainly can be great but at the same time I often see those Khorne armies hanging onto one Bloodsecrator, which is a massive weakness of such strategies aswell, as armies with Missle or Magic attacks will find him. 

Gore Pilgrims + Murderhost is certainly a very strong combo, have posted a combo-esque list in the BoK discussion. However it's the same type of style list that can run into problems against The Goretide's counter-charging lists, which at the same time don't really require Slaughterpriests to begin with. To some extend Murderhost and The Goretide can function in similar ways. So the result boils down to, you can go Gore Pilgrims and go hard on that first turn or max out on bodies and go hard with other Battalions. 

[Terry Pike]

6 minutes ago, Killax said:

@Terry Pike Yeah I think Gore Pilgrims is great but again I don't think you will always need to include it, by large because on non-SCGT events there is very little in stopping us from going into old routes, such as body massing with multiple Bloodsecrators or a massive horde of Skullcrushers with Brass Stampede or massive horde of Bloodletters with Murderhost.

I'm not going down the road of stacking banners as I'm sure with the next FAQ / GHB2 these will not stack. Having multiple for redundancy would work, but having one with a longer buff range behind some line of sight terrain just feels like a much safer option and then frees up more points for other units.

[Killax]

4 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

I'm not going down the road of stacking banners as I'm sure with the next FAQ / GHB2 these will not stack. Having multiple for redundancy would work, but having one with a longer buff range behind some line of sight terrain just feels like a much safer option and then frees up more points for other units.

I don't see it as redundancy at all, I see it as one moving up turn 1 so that the one from Gore Pilgrims can stay behind. This back on forth of potentially moving models allows for a much greater control range on top of presenting it as the key linchpin of the army. 

In regards to Rage of Khorne stacking or not with the GH2, none of that really matters until GH2 is actually out and applied. The moral is that there never is a redundancy to Bloodsecrators if you know that turn 1 charges arn't available to your force. 

Lastly Gore Pilgrims does not free up more points, all it really does is allow you to use Slaughterpriest instead of an additional Bloodsecrator, which is fine and nice but ultimately much easier to remove as a Hero package as opposed to multiple Bloodsecrators. Dealing with Slaughterpriests is rather easy for competative non-Khorne forces.

[Terry Pike]

59 minutes ago, Killax said:

Lastly Gore Pilgrims does not free up more points, all it really does is allow you to use Slaughterpriest instead of an additional Bloodsecrator, which is fine and nice but ultimately much easier to remove as a Hero package as opposed to multiple Bloodsecrators. Dealing with Slaughterpriests is rather easy for competative non-Khorne forces.

I dont think my Bloodsecrator died over 6 games at SCGT, the slaughter priests were pretty survivable as they were not the focus at all. The Bloodthirster, Mighty Lord and Letterbomb were the threat that people had to target. I also used the priest ability to drag models around to great effect. pulling people off of objectives was something they didnt see coming.

I wouldnt say slaughter priests aren't easy to deal with as they are not really the priority target. If they are over extending or wasting long range shooting on these, its a win for you as they arent shooting the 60 bloodletters barrelling across the table lol

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Terry Pike said:

I wouldnt say slaughter priests aren't easy to deal with as they are not really the priority target. If they are over extending or wasting long range shooting on these, its a win for you as they arent shooting the 60 bloodletters barrelling across the table lol

Well... To me a good opponent would thake out the Bloodsecrator out ASAP, by large because the Bloodletter bomb and the whole Gore Pilgrim shebang runs on the fact that the Bloodsecrator's bubble is so massive. So if you only run one, you cut the Bloodletter efficiency in half by dealing with 1 Bloodsecrator. I would do it if I could, lets put it that way. 

Bloodletter bombs with 60 attacks are twice as scary as those with 30  one requires 30 wounds to deal with, the other 5. That math isn't too difficult. 

[Terry Pike]

22 minutes ago, Killax said:

Well... To me a good opponent would thake out the Bloodsecrator out ASAP

obviously not to scale but here is how I deploy my banner in most games. when its player scenery its even easier as you can bring line of sight blocking stuff like buildings, ruins etc. Good opponent or not, this banner it hard to get to and in some cases can't be targeted at all during the game depending on what scenery has been placed. some pieces of scenery can make him basically untargetable unless you are stood a few inches behind him

[Killax]

@Terry Pike yeah if there is a nice large piece of terrain in the middle of the board so that the Bloodsecrator can move up to the middle of the board unprotected that works out really fine. I do find it quite rare to see one piece of terrain on the board, happily into the center of the deployment zone of one player  

Moral is that if you can make characters totally untargetable it's fine as is, though you need to have those Slaughterpriests within 8" still and I don't know how much Hero's you intend to keep behind such a convient screen.

Cheers,

[Terry Pike]

13 minutes ago, Killax said:

@Terry Pike yeah if there is a nice large piece of terrain in the middle of the board so that the Bloodsecrator can move up to the middle of the board unprotected that works out really fine. I do find it quite rare to see one piece of terrain on the board, happily into the center of the deployment zone of one player

When scattering terrain at the start of the game place a piece roughly 12" on each players deployment area, regardless of what side you end up with you'll have somewhere to go, you don't even need to move from the start of the game, you just plant turn 1. If the terrain is already fixed in place you may just have to play off either side and work with what you have and use other units to block line of sight. The advantage of being in Gore Pilgrims is the increased range of the 30" banner allows you to utilise these not so great bits of terrain while being safe from Skyfires/Kurnoths/Cannons etc.

[Killax]

4 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

When scattering terrain at the start of the game place a piece roughly 12" on each players deployment area, regardless of what side you end up with you'll have somewhere to go, you don't even need to move from the start of the game, you just plant turn 1. If the terrain is already fixed in place you may just have to play off either side and work with what you have and use other units to block line of sight.

The advantage of being in Gore Pilgrims is the increased range of the 30" banner allows you to utilise these not so great bits of terrain while being safe from Skyfires/Kurnoths/Cannons etc.

I wouldn't assume every game has a terrain piece dead center in your deployment zone. 

The Widening the Rift advantage is only gained for every Slaughterpriest within 8" of the Bloodsecrator, it also drops per 6" if a smart opponent decides to deal with your Slaughterpriests. Wether or not your opponent is aware of that will decide his or her target priority. As the Battletome becomes slightly older, players play more against it, the more likely a smart opponent will realize how to migate it's advantages. Which is far from difficult.

 

[Terry Pike]

I always assume there is terrain/scenery in my deployment zone, because I put it there unless its pre-placed event terrain.

The way I see it when playing with Khorne now, you give your opponent a few options:

1. Target the 60+ bloodletters, 12+ bloodcrushers and other hereos such as Bloodthirsters that are not far from your army
2. Put yourself in a bad position to try and kill priests/banner tucked away nicely in my deployment zone

Seeing as were playing an objective based game where 5/6 scenarios don't require heroes to score, I'd be more than happy if my opponent picked option 2 and went for the slaughter priests while all my scoring units won the game and killed the opposing units that over extended to attempt to kill some heroes.

We would have different play styles and my views probably sound very simple, however they work well for me and people are threatened by whats right in front of them (bloodletters etc) and end up making bad choices as you force them into a positions where any of the options have bad/risky outcomes.

[Adasi]

i'm kind of with terry on this. i've played only 6 games so far but the Bloodsecrator has either not died or bee the last to die against a tabling from a gunline. 2+armour in cover and the artifact that allows rerolls of 1 for AS means he's only going to die to Mortal WOunds and with good LoS blocking terrain and a 30" banner range, odds are you're picking a good spot in deployment.

When i hear about people saying thats impossible i often have to wonder what scenery people play with? Most of the GW official AoS scenery (Realmgates aside) have a good LoS blocking part for a single base?

If you play with old school 8th ed scenery of hills and forests then yeah you're not blocking anything but then you're still relying on a 2+/rr1's which is really tanky!

Finallly - if tehy're close enough to target him with MW spells or good shooting - then they're close enough for me to spend my Blood Tithe points charging them in their hero phase!

 

[Aspirant Snaeper]

Bronze Fleshing a Bloodsecrator to give him the 2+ /RR1's is also an option if terrain isnt around for him to hide in. 

The Priest that does it can still reach out to hit someone with wounds or a pull if he is able.

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

Bronze Fleshing a Bloodsecrator to give him the 2+ /RR1's is also an option if terrain isnt around for him to hide in. 

The Priest that does it can still reach out to hit someone with wounds or a pull if he is able.

I certainly like this option!
The thing is that we locally do not play with the rules where we can set up our own terrain, which is one of the reasons as to why this strategy wouldn't be applied for me. What do intend to use, as @Aspirant Snaeper mentioned is to have the Bloodsecrator stick around with Bronzed Flesh or as can be seen in the list in the other topic simply have a second Bloodsecrator to work with.
Personally I think The Brazen Rune is a fantastic Artefact for a Bloodsecrator to have aswell, this offcourse depends on your expected meta aswell!

[Lardidar]

Wow...I went away for the day and all sorts of great discussion. I really am starting to think I'm underestimating the Gorepilgrims...let's do 'yet another' list.

Allegiance: Khorne
Daemon Prince Of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
- Trait: Violent Urgency 
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 
Valkia The Bloody (120)
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Skullreapers (140)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
3 x Khorgoraths (300)
Gore Pilgrims (80)

Total: 2000/2000
 

Now I know I don't have the funds to buy a thirster before my tournament so unfortunately that's out but this looks good with 3 killy characters, 3 support characters, a big blob of a unit, solid unit of warriors, 3 harassment objective grabbers, skullreapers for killing and the Khorgoraths because....I'm starting to realise I'm throwing 300 away, maybe they look intimidating?

[Killax]

Looks cool to me, granted I dont know if you play with SCGT House-rules but those 300 points of Khorgoraths could also be another 30 Bloodletters. Doubled flesh up blocks of 30 are a scary sight to behold.

Other than that in most cases you should be good, I don't think your type of list actually requires Gore Pilgrims to become effective but that's more an in depth evaluation of what Gore Pilgrims can do for you when you go for the big block combinations  

[Aspirant Snaeper]

@Lardidar

I'd put Crimson Crown into question to be honest, especially if your Daemon Prince is winged. Don't tether him to your Bloodletters and let him and Valkia be Hero missiles, that's what I think they're best at. Make him an offensive weapon through and through, who's sole purpose is to get his points back as fast as possible by killing a critical hero. 

I think with just him and one Khorne Daemon unit to benefit from the ability it's value lost making him more lethal. 

[Lardidar]

On 5/6/2017 at 10:42 AM, Killax said:

Looks cool to me, granted I dont know if you play with SCGT House-rules but those 300 points of Khorgoraths could also be another 30 Bloodletters. 

1

Agreed...I just want the scale change in the force to make it visually appealing...hmm an all 32mm horde may look pretty nice.

19 hours ago, Aspirant Snaeper said:

I'd put Crimson Crown into question to be honest, especially if your Daemon Prince is winged. Don't tether him to your Bloodletters and let him and Valkia be Hero missiles, that's what I think they're best at.

 

I think I agree and have been wavering on him but for an odd reason, I don't have a warscroll card and that feels wrong. I have Valkia for the kill me before I kill you roll in the early game...maybe he could be dropped?

Allegiance: Khorne
Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne (80)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Crimson Plate 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Bloodbathed Axe
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- Trait: Berzerker Lord 
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 
Valkia The Bloody (120)
30 x Bloodletters (300)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
30 x Bloodletters (300)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
2 x Khorgoraths (200)
Murderhost (20)
Gore Pilgrims (80)

Total: 2000/2000 - Now here I have the 80point hero and an extra unit of letters making the crown seem more effective. I could drop the Khorgorath for another 10 Blood warriors, they would also fit the formation and reduce my setup drops. Man, I have never thought about a game so much that I have never played! @Terry Pike this seems to fit a lot to the style you were talking about, just wondering about the lack of 'killy' stuff.
 

[Lardidar]

To break up the theory.. here are the first two of the five terrain pieces I'll be taking.

[Killax]

@Lardidar list looks very solid! If you want to hurl up one or two Bloodletter units turn 1 also consider what the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and a single Blood Tithe point (generated with Slaughterpriest) can do for two of you 30 blocks.

With Murderhost it accumulates to:
- 2d6 movement thanks to Murderhost, average +7"
- 2x Lord of the Blood Hunt (run+1" + charge movement+1") thanks to Blood Sacrifice, average +12"
- Possible Bloodstoker to make the charge go further, plus possible 3"

It's one of the combinations I think can be very competative for Blades of Khorne. If the aim is to win a Tournament I'd consider it for sure.

[Lardidar]

Just seeking a little opinion about this colour scheme. I realise that my tournament is now in a month and there are 60 of these dudes to paint so it's a lot more wash and dry brush with only the top layer glazed on. I think it's still interesting and not the usual red/black.

I'm not expecting to be competing for best army but still want to put something visually appealing down.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

[Killax]

Cool work so far!

[gummyofallbears]

I do not have my book with me, but if blood sacrifice causes d3 mortal wounds, then it might pair nicely with a backfield objective unit with a save against mortal wounds. 

 

Apologies if it doesn't, once i get home I can triple check. 

[Killax]

1 hour ago, gummyofallbears said:

I do not have my book with me, but if blood sacrifice causes d3 mortal wounds, then it might pair nicely with a backfield objective unit with a save against mortal wounds. 

Apologies if it doesn't, once i get home I can triple check. 

You can certainly go for it. Granted a 180+100 point module is quite expensive for the effect, an effect that isn't guaranteed.

I'd say try it in a non-competative matched game and see how you like it. So far the only theoretical design I do really like for those types of combo's is when we have a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster use his Command Ability 'twice' so we can send away two Bloodletter blocks. In such a design though you'd still need Murderhost, Gore Pilgrims and thus more units. Then you have the option to turn 1 charge assuming your opponent is somewhere near 24" of you, it's dicey, possible but also very expensive.  

For a full MSU list things become very different as you open the option to stack up to Relentless Fury, this will thake some turns but can become really cool and possible with the use of Blood Sacrifice.