Shooting through units

[Mayple]

Coming out of the woodwork with some questions regarding shooting and line of sight's interaction with units and models.

I know line of sight rules are a tad unclear as of right now, with 'true' line of sight discussions, and people wondering whether shots to a feathered hat results in wounds, so I won't delve into that. For the sake of this question, let's say anything visible = legit target.

So my question is: if I have a line of chaff in front of my general on foot, and the line completely hides him behind them (pretend they're a brick wall, for the sake of argument) - to such an extent that he is impossible to see from an enemy gunline's point of view.. can he be shot?

 

Using the same example above, but with a friendly gunline behind my line, can I shoot through my own unit without any possibility of actually seeing through it?

Follow-up: If partial visibility through the line is achieved, can shots then be fired through?

 

That's all. For now

[Jharen]

RAW is that you can shoot at a target within range as long as you can see any part of the model being targeted.

In your first question.  No your general could not be shot at as there is no line of sight

In your second question.  No.  Your unit would not have line of sight.

 

I do not believe there is much debate over what the rules mean (the rules are pretty clear there).  The debate is more so about whether that loose of a line of sight rule is good for the game or not.  In the examples you've given though, where you have state there is absolutely no line of sight what-so-ever, then of course you cannot shoot.  Remember also that each model in the shooting unit must check for LOS and only the ones with LOS may fire at targets they can see.

[BaldoBeardo]

For whatever definition of line-of-sight you use;

If you don't have line of sight, you can't shoot it.

(Excepting attacks that specify it's not needed).

The only allowance within the rules is models can see through models in their own unit.

"Picking Targets" under "Attacking" in the main rules.

 

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[Mayple]

Sweet. Wanted to make sure it worked like that before I went ahead and based an army around a general/mage on foot, as opposed to mounted on a horse, only to see him sniped through a line because I misread the rules.

Still expect to be shot at between the legs of my dudes, but that's much less of a problem to deal with than if the line provided no ranged defence at all. 

[BaldoBeardo]

Many AoS armies excel at shenanigans.
Do *not* plan your army around a character having a meat shield. He *will* get toasted.

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[Bradifer]

In AoS all ranged units are effectively highly trained sniper units.

Until the rules change otherwise, or if your group houserules it.

[arnoldrew]

20 hours ago, Mayple said:

Sweet. Wanted to make sure it worked like that before I went ahead and based an army around a general/mage on foot, as opposed to mounted on a horse, only to see him sniped through a line because I misread the rules.

Still expect to be shot at between the legs of my dudes, but that's much less of a problem to deal with than if the line provided no ranged defence at all. 

It doesn't provide any ranged defense at all. What "ranged defense" are you hoping to get? He will be shot just as if he was sitting out in the open.

[Squirrelmaster]

Nah, it's fine — just make sure all your basic infantry are carrying massive tower shields, some of them raised above their heads, so that you can arrange them in testudo formation, with your wizard hiding in the middle.

Problem solved ;-)

[Mayple]

Well, y'know. If he can't be shot at due to a unit blocking line of sight, he's protected from that ranged/shooting attack. 

[Mayple]

17 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said:

Nah, it's fine — just make sure all your basic infantry are carrying massive tower shields, some of them raised above their heads, so that you can arrange them in testudo formation, with your wizard hiding in the middle.

Problem solved ;-)

Brettooonniia!

 

I did have a shield wall in mind for this particular purpose Although with Kharadron ships looming in the horizon, I likely won't get to test it on the field anytime soon. Purely hypothetical theorycraftin' at this point.

[Arkiham]

nope its totally fine, if you can see the feather in his cap, or the tip of his spear for instance, you can shoot the guy wielding it perfectly fine..  

[BURF1]

3 hours ago, Arkiham said:

nope its totally fine, if you can see the feather in his cap, or the tip of his spear for instance, you can shoot the guy wielding it perfectly fine..  

With true line of sight you have 3 viable options, 1) Can-see-can-shoot 2)Obscured->invulnerable or 3) Adding cover mechanics.

Pick your poison, 40k chose 3 but ended up with a really REALLY REALLY wordy 1. (Seriously, cover is like 30 pages of rules to learn only to realize that no meaningful shooting attack in the game doesn't ignore it in some way)

[Grimma]

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