Judicator prime shockbolt bow

[Sangfroid]

Hey guys following a brief discussion on twitter decide it's easier to post here so can explain reasoning and also pretty neat new sce trick 

okay so first up the formation vanguard wing allows a unit of judicators 8" away from the battalions prosecutors on a hit roll of 6 or higher to instead make 2 wound rolls. 

If the judicator prime has the shockbolt bow this is on a 5+ (as he gets +1 to hit). 

Next the shockbolt bow makes the shooter replace the single die (to roll to see if the hit wounds) with D6 dice. Therefore each "wound roll" would explode into d6 rolls each potentially meaning 2d6 dice rolled to wound on a 5+ hit roll assuming the unit is in the formation and near the procesutors. 

Next add in the prayer blessed weapons, this gives you an extra attack on a hit roll of 6 or more. 

Therefore a hit roll of a 5+ from the prime would then also trigger an extra attack (in addition to the 2d6 wound rolls) which itself if a 5+ could then trigger another 2d6 wound rolls (not an extra extra attack as it's matched play and rule of 1 applies) 

 Works because combats sequence is extended by the wording on the shockbolt bow, you are effectively replacing a dice with multiple dice before you resolve them to see if they wound and then are saved or not( whereas damage is the opposite it happens after wounding and saves have been made) 

requires a fair amount of luck and specific units/formation but pretty good if it works. 

[rokapoke]

I'm not sure the Shockbolt Bow works as you say -- the wording on the warscroll states "Instead of making a single wound roll." Therefore, I would say that one single wound roll would be replaced, so you would be looking at D6+1 wound rolls if you activate the battalion bonus.

I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation. Note: I don't actually have the text of the battalion's ability in front of me, so I'm going off of your description.

[OlDirtyCosta]

20 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

Hey guys following a brief discussion on twitter decide it's easier to post here so can explain reasoning and also pretty neat new sce trick 

okay so first up the formation vanguard wing allows a unit of judicators 8" away from the battalions prosecutors on a hit roll of 6 or higher to instead make 2 wound rolls. 

If the judicator prime has the shockbolt bow this is on a 5+ (as he gets +1 to hit). 

Next the shockbolt bow makes the shooter replace the single die (to roll to see if the hit wounds) with D6 dice. Therefore each "wound roll" would explode into d6 rolls each potentially meaning 2d6 dice rolled to wound on a 5+ hit roll assuming the unit is in the formation and near the procesutors. 

Next add in the prayer blessed weapons, this gives you an extra attack on a hit roll of 6 or more. 

Therefore a hit roll of a 5+ from the prime would then also trigger an extra attack (in addition to the 2d6 wound rolls) which itself if a 5+ could then trigger another 2d6 wound rolls (not an extra extra attack as it's matched play and rule of 1 applies) 

 Works because combats sequence is extended by the wording on the shockbolt bow, you are effectively replacing a dice with multiple dice before you resolve them to see if they wound and then are saved or not( whereas damage is the opposite it happens after wounding and saves have been made) 

requires a fair amount of luck and specific units/formation but pretty good if it works. 

 

20 hours ago, rokapoke said:

I'm not sure the Shockbolt Bow works as you say -- the wording on the warscroll states "Instead of making a single wound roll." Therefore, I would say that one single wound roll would be replaced, so you would be looking at D6+1 wound rolls if you activate the battalion bonus.

I could be wrong, but that's my interpretation. Note: I don't actually have the text of the battalion's ability in front of me, so I'm going off of your description.

Wow this is tough.  Needs a GW ruling but, the way it is worded I think I have to agree with the OP.  "Instead of making a single wound roll" Is only part of it.  As per the vanguard formation bonus you are now making two separate single wound rolls.  Its not MTG the but, the way I read it the "Instead of making a single wound roll" ability would trigger twice, once for each wound roll if that makes sense.

[1s happen]

I agree on the 2d6 ruling, but is there anyway to avoid arguing with your opponents over this? Or do we just have to wait on an official FAQ to clarify...

[Turragor]

D6+1 imo.

"If a Judicator scores a hit swith a skybolt bow the bolt explodes etc etc"

So the d6 triggers on a hit only. It is separate from the actual wound rolls.

Rolling extra wounds cannot "explode".

Then the Vanguard bonus adds a wound roll or asks you to roll 2 (doesn't say 'double' unfortunately or it would also apply).

You can then make another d6+1 with Blessed Weapons as this is connected to the hit roll.

I know people will disagree with this interpretation but it seems reasonably clear to me.

[1s happen]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

D6+1 imo.

"If a Judicator scores a hit swith a skybolt bow the bolt explodes etc etc"

So the d6 triggers on a hit only. It is separate from the actual wound rolls.

Rolling extra wounds cannot "explode".

Then the Vanguard bonus adds a wound roll or asks you to roll 2 (doesn't say 'double' unfortunately or it would also apply).

You can then make another d6+1 with Blessed Weapons as this is connected to the hit roll.

I know people will disagree with this interpretation but it seems reasonably clear to me.

The issue I have with this is it ignores the key phrase "Instead of making a single wound roll, roll a dice and make a number of wound rolls equal to the number rolled." Period. This is a seperate part of the weapons rule.

The above, coupled with a hit of 6 or more generating "two wound rolls rather then one" means that the shockbolt bow's ability will trigger twice, once on each seperate wound roll. This gives the 2d6 wound rolls discussed in the original post. The "scores a hit" sentence quoted above is seperate.

[rokapoke]

8 minutes ago, 1s happen said:

The issue I have with this is it ignores the key phrase "Instead of making a single wound roll, roll a dice and make a number of wound rolls equal to the number rolled." Period. This is a seperate part of the weapons rule.

The above, coupled with a hit of 6 or more generating "two wound rolls rather then one" means that the shockbolt bow's ability will trigger twice, once on each seperate wound roll. This gives the 2d6 wound rolls discussed in the original post. The "scores a hit" sentence quoted above is seperate.

However, note that "a single wound roll" is also a particular phrase. So if you get multiple wound rolls, you may replace "a single wound roll" with D6, but the second one doesn't get replaced. That's the other interpretation -- which, for the record, I see as the appropriate interpretation. That's why there's a debate -- because we don't know if GW agrees with you or with me.

[1s happen]

42 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

However, note that "a single wound roll" is also a particular phrase. So if you get multiple wound rolls, you may replace "a single wound roll" with D6, but the second one doesn't get replaced. That's the other interpretation -- which, for the record, I see as the appropriate interpretation. That's why there's a debate -- because we don't know if GW agrees with you or with me.

Fair point I guess it's just how you choose to look at it. Perhaps an FAQ will render this whole thing moot but who can say when that will be...I'll fight for my 2d6 until then but I understand your view. Cheers!

[OlDirtyCosta]

51 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

However, note that "a single wound roll" is also a particular phrase. So if you get multiple wound rolls, you may replace "a single wound roll" with D6, but the second one doesn't get replaced. That's the other interpretation -- which, for the record, I see as the appropriate interpretation. That's why there's a debate -- because we don't know if GW agrees with you or with me.

When you use a weapon profile you roll a single hit roll,  a single wound then apply whatever damage per each attack.  The shockbolt changes that single dice roll to a d6.  The vanguard attachment gives you a second dice roll in addition to the first after a successful hit.  Its two rules breaking the normal rules.  We can argue over the semantics forever.  Until then its up to your local group or TO.  Basically what 1's Happen said.