Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Olincay]

Fellas, how does everyone run thier tzaangor's? Unit size and unit compesition? I was thinking a unit of 30 would be best to maximise the amount of attacks, but having zero experiece with the army im reluctant to start putting minis together. 

Also i've semi finished a tester for my skyfires, yay or nay for red skin? 

 

[santiel]

1 hour ago, Olincay said:

Fellas, how does everyone run thier tzaangor's? Unit size and unit compesition? I was thinking a unit of 30 would be best to maximise the amount of attacks, but having zero experiece with the army im reluctant to start putting minis together. 

Also i've semi finished a tester for my skyfires, yay or nay for red skin? 

 

Ive heard that 30 isto many, hard to utilize them all. 20 seems to be some kind of golden nr. I love the red, looks really good. but so does Khorne if you know what i mean haha. 

[Olincay]

17 minutes ago, santiel said:

Ive heard that 30 isto many, hard to utilize them all. 20 seems to be some kind of golden nr. I love the red, looks really good. but so does Khorne if you know what i mean haha. 

Would you run two units of 20?

[santiel]

1 hour ago, Olincay said:

Would you run two units of 20?

Hmm depends on what else you got. I personally runs 1 unit of 20 and feels that its enough, but if you have 2x20 already id say go for it

[santiel]

On 2017-07-24 at 2:14 PM, HMB said:

ok 

there's the

hi Olincay, here's a list i run few weeks ago in a local tournament. It's include some old CW and arcanite stuff, it works, pretty well, not a top tier list, but my main intention is playing a roster that can also satisfy my eyes

Heroes

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate : Treacherous Bond
- Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation

Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Incorporeal Form
- Artefact : Cursed Ichor
- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

-Artefact: Paradoxical Shield

Lord Of Chaos (100)
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Units

10 x Kairic Acolytes (140)

5 x Chaos Knights (200)
-Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
-Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

2 x Chaos Spawn (120)

10 x Kairic Acolytes (140)

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (120)

Just realized that this list wont work unless you change for someone else to be a general. LoC cant be since the batallion states the leader to be a mortal tzeentch hero. But its a easy fix

[Ratso]

If I summon in a LoC, can I give him an artefact or does he need to be in the starting line up to get it????

[santiel]

44 minutes ago, Ratso said:

If I summon in a LoC, can I give him an artefact or does he need to be in the starting line up to get it????

He needs to be starting unfortunaly

[Olincay]

So, battalions. Are there any must haves? If so what are they and what do you need for them? I still dont have a copy of the book. 

[TheOtherJosh]

So, battalions. Are there any must haves? If so what are they and what do you need for them? I still dont have a copy of the book. 

 

What do you want to run?

 

Tzeentch Arcanites?

 

Tzeentch Daemons?

 

Mixed?

 

(A bunch of the answers might actually change depending on what fully comes out of the GHB 2017.)

 

[Olincay]

55 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

What do you want to run?

 

Tzeentch Arcanites?

 

Tzeentch Daemons?

 

Mixed?

 

(A bunch of the answers might actually change depending on what fully comes out of the GHB 2017.)

 

Mostly arcanites, might consider some   Mortals as well. Aesthetically im not a huge fan of the daemon range but if they're too filthy to ignore ill happily field them too   

[Nico]

In short, the Changehost, Hosts Duplicitous and Multitudinous Host are worth a look.

The Arcanite ones are weak and cheap, but do yield Artefacts.

The Fatesworn Warband is solid.

[Myzyrael]

So as we are talking about the Fatesworn Warband, I just happened to find myself in the store today buying a Lord on Manticore.

As background information, I do love Tzeentch and I won't stray away from my god that controls my fate since the old fantasy days (in fact I was even running warriors of chaos all with mark of tzeentch back in the days) but currently I'm kind of sick of just pointing with my magic wands and having the enemy remove his models. Our group is not overly competitive, in fact, most players are mostly casual.

So I came up with this list and the idea is to use magic as an utility, a tool, not a weapon.

The idea behind it:
The sorcerer lord should mainly buff the manticore (hence the steed), whilst the gaunt summoner will babysit the big unit of chaos warriors with mystic shield and shield of fate. I shouldn't burn through my DD too fast, so it will help quite a while. The lord on foot obviously joins the large warriors unit.
First turn I will summon 10 pink horrors with arcane transformation, that will buff the manticore and next turn the lord on foot.
The other units are for distraction, holding objectives or just because I love them (Spawns arrgggwwoobl).
So in case of immediate action necessary, the gaunt summoner can dish out his own spell but should mainly rely on his utility spells. My manticore can cast magic bolt once a turn, but that would be all damage wise. 

 

The actual list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Heroes
Chaos Lord On Manticore (300)
- General
- Blade & Lance
- Trait: Soul Burn  
- Artefact: Daemonheart  
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Lord Of Chaos (100)
- Artefact: Timeslip Pendant  
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate

Battleline
27 Chaos Warriors (6+ Invulnerable Save) (540)
30 x Chaos Warriors
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
1 x Chaos Spawn (60)
1 x Chaos Spawn (60)
1 x Chaos Spawn (60)

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (120)
 

Summoning Pool:

10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)

Total: 1980/2000

 

 

I could change out the general's trait for -1 to hit in ranged phase, give him the shield from his war scroll or even the paradoxical shield to go for more defense.

What do you think? I will definitely try this out few times, but are there slight suggestions what might be tweaked without forgoing the idea of utility magic for chaos fighters? Do you have any other ideas for items?

 

Thanks a lot!

[Rhellion]

On 8/2/2017 at 3:23 AM, Nico said:

In short, the Changehost, Hosts Duplicitous and Multitudinous Host are worth a look.

The Arcanite ones are weak and cheap, but do yield Artefacts.

The Fatesworn Warband is solid.

I don't think there are any artifacts worth trying to fit a battalion in to get 'another artifact', really. Not like Bloodbound where there are many very good ones you want more of.

[Nico]

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I could change out the general's trait for -1 to hit in ranged phase, give him the shield from his war scroll or even the paradoxical shield to go for more defense.

Do this exactly. I do this with the Sorceror Lord on Manticore as my general. The offensive artefacts aren't good for DoT except Phantasmal Weapons.

[Nico]

Quote

I don't think there are any artifacts worth trying to fit a battalion in to get 'another artifact', really. Not like Bloodbound where there are many very good ones you want more of.

Yep - that's fair. I'm trying to think of anything positive about the Arcanite Battalions.

This is even more the case when we will not be able to take multiples of the same artefact any more.

 

[Olincay]

So still on the subject of battalions, i've finally managed to have a decent look at them. 

Has anyone had any success with running the Tzaangor Coven and the Skyshoal Coven together? 

 

[N_Watson]

The tzaangor coven is easily overlooked. I'm pretty sure Mark Wildman has been pushing that around, mixed with Daemons to good success. 

It's a solid formation. 

I think people tend to look at the arcanite 1 drop formations and just say that all of them are bad. 

[Nico]

Quote

The tzaangor coven is easily overlooked. I'm pretty sure Mark Wildman has been pushing that around, mixed with Daemons to good success. 

I hate the mechanic of piling in and attacking during your hero phase more than any other buff. It's so unreliable, as you've got to close with the enemy and either double turn them (unlikely as Tzeentch tend to go first) or hope that (a) they don't retreat out of combat; and (b) they don't kill or cripple your Tzaangor in their turn.

That said, the Witchfyre Coven is even worse - short range abysmal shooting in the hero phase from 140 for 10 models .

[N_Watson]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I hate the mechanic of piling in and attacking during your hero phase more than any other buff. It's so unreliable, as you've got to close with the enemy and either double turn them (unlikely as Tzeentch tend to go first) or hope that (a) they don't retreat out of combat; and (b) they don't kill or cripple your Tzaangor in their turn.

That said, the Witchfyre Coven is even worse - short range abysmal shooting in the hero phase from 140 for 10 models .

I get what you are saying, and don't disagree that it is clunky, but the tzaangor coven is still "good" if you build around it. 

It doesn't need to be double rukk good to be a good battalion. 

[Nico]

It's probably decent given how cheap it is.

[TheOtherJosh]

...That said, the Witchfyre Coven is even worse - short range abysmal shooting in the hero phase from 140 for 10 models .

18" Range with a Adept with scroll of the dark arts, shooting in both hero and shooting phase.

+1 to hit when within 9" of a friendly Tzeentch Wizard.

And let's be honest.

If you're going for a Wytchfire Coven, that is only because your long term goal is to setup a Pyrofane Cult.

[Nico]

Quote

18" Range with a Adept with scroll of the dark arts, shooting in both hero and shooting phase.

+1 to hit when within 9" of a friendly Tzeentch Wizard.

And let's be honest.

If you're going for a Wytchfire Coven, that is only because your long term goal is to setup a Pyrofane Cult. 

So the +1 to hit takes them up to 1 attack 4+, 4+. So that's half the damage output of an unbuffed Arkanaut who's not shooting at a hero or monster.

The Pyrofane Cult doesn't help much. Buffing the wound roll of the second and third unit to attack doesn't help if half the shots still miss and more importantly if they are out of effective range turn one. Shooting that cannot contribute when you go first is really weak - this is why Judicators with 29" effective range are so good.

If we see Acolytes go down to 110 or 100, then it would start becoming interesting.

[TheOtherJosh]

Can someone please point me to a Tzeentch aligned Battleline unit (other than Arcanites) that has a ranged attack?

You have Pink Horrors (same potential range) that I can see, and Acolytes. And are same points. (Ignoring split costs.)

Chaos Marauders are cheaper, but have no ranged attack.

Chaos Warriors are more expensive, but also have no ranged attack.

Tzaangor are battleline, but have no ranged attack. (And are more expensive.)

[TheOtherJosh]

...this is why Judicators with 29" effective range are so good.
If we see Acolytes go down to 110 or 100, then it would start becoming interesting.

Judicator are 20 points more expensive for 5 less models (same number of wounds, fewer models) (32 points a model vs 14 points/model)

They have a wildly variable potential for damage with multiple different ranged weapon options (though they all take the same weapons for the squad .. excepting the single special weapon) and 12 or 29" effective range. (Fixed 12" for best attack profile with the crossbow)

Acolytes have an 18 or 24" effective range (wytchfire cult attack in hero phase vs normal shooting). And a lower overall save.

I see that the Judicators (as an example) are extremely solid ... but they're "more elite" as a battleline choice and more expensive (both from a point and pocketbook perspective)

I agree that making the Acolytes cheaper would make them more appealing ... but I wouldn't say they're a bad choice.

[Olincay]

It's a real shame because Acolytes are really nice minis, I'm still considering running some for ****** and giggles. That's until they do f'all and i swap them out for some mauraders or horrors.