Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[santiel]

2 minutes ago, HMB said:

Gaunt summoner can cast 2 different spell in each turn

Hahaha i totally missed out on that. Shame on me. Im really clueless on where to put the other artefact. I just put the dagger on the daemon prince meanwhile. Any thaughts?

[HMB]

Phantasmal Weapons: This daemon’s strikes can pass through armour to cleavethe flesh beneath.
Improve the Rend characteristic of all melee weapons wielded by this daemon by 1 (if it has a Rend characteristic of ‘-’it becomes -1).

 

this one could be a nice solution

[santiel]

33 minutes ago, HMB said:

Phantasmal Weapons: This daemon’s strikes can pass through armour to cleavethe flesh beneath.
Improve the Rend characteristic of all melee weapons wielded by this daemon by 1 (if it has a Rend characteristic of ‘-’it becomes -1).

 

this one could be a nice solution

So the Axe gets -3 with this?

[HMB]

yep

[HMB]

Here's an update on a Fatesworn list i could try to build in future 

It suffer the lack of my FAVOURITE AND BELOVED UNIT EVER: Chaos Knights, but it could be a nice solution for this warband

Heroes
Chaos Lord On Manticore (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Illusionist
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact : Timeslip Pendant

Lord Of Chaos (100)
- Artefact : Paradoxical Shield
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future

Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Units
3 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (300)
-Greatblade

10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
-Axes & Shields
- Damned Icon
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
-Axes & Shields
- Damned Icon
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
-Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

1 x Chaos Warshrine (200)
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (120)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)
Total: 2000/ 2000
Heroes: 5/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4

[Ratso]

Hey guys, if I summon a bloodthirster while I under a Tzeentch allegiance, can I use destiny dice on his charge, hit, wound, as he does not have the Tzeentch key word however he is within the Tzeentch allegiance army???

[HMB]

I think, in matched play you can't choose Tzeentch allegiance if you include in your roster a non-Tzeentch warscroll

[TheOtherJosh]

I think, in matched play you can't choose Tzeentch allegiance if you include in your roster a non-Tzeentch warscroll

 “...If all the starting units and warscroll battalions in your army follow TZEENTCH – including any units that you assign the TZEENTCH keyword to during set-up – then your army has the TZEENTCH allegiance..." DoT p.72 

Summoned units are pulled from reinforcement points and are not part of your starting units.

 

GHB FAQ v1.1

Page 108 – Reinforcement Points

Add the following to the end of the second paragraph: ‘Reinforcement units must belong to the same Grand Alliance as the rest of your army, but can otherwise have any allegiance. Because restrictions are determined when you pick your army, units added later using reinforcement points can allow the army to exceed the normal limitations for leaders, artillery and behemoths.’

 

However:[mention=879]Ratso[/mention]

You can't use Destiny Dice for your summoned Khorne Unit. Because you can only use Destiny dice for TZEENTCH units (p.74 DoT) (and it isn't a Tzeentch keyword unit, even if you have it in your army)

 

 

 

[HMB]

ok, my fault sorry

[HMB]

ok 

there's the same example:

Quote

 

All armies can include a limited number of heroes, behemoths and artillery in their army list. With summoning, you can override those restrictions, since you do not have to specify what you will summon on your army list.

It even allows you to break allegiance without losing its benefits. This allows for some amazing flexibility in your list building. For example, it would allow a pure Tzeentch army to summon a Bloodthirster without losing its use of destiny dice.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/tactical-toolbox-summoning-july-20gw-homepage-post-4/

[Ratso]

Thanks guys, so if it's a LoC that's ok then as it has the Tzeentch key word....can a LoC still get a second spell from the Tzentch book even though it was summoned and didn't start in the starting line up???

[TheOtherJosh]

Thanks guys, so if it's a LoC that's ok then as it has the Tzeentch key word....can a LoC still get a second spell from the Tzentch book even though it was summoned and didn't start in the starting line up???

“Each DAEMON WIZARD in a TZEENTCH army knows an additional spell chosen from the Lore of Change.” P.82 DoT

So, the LoC meets the criteria above, so it can have an additional single spell chosen from the Lore of Change after summoning.

This would give them Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, Infernal Gateway and the Lore of Change spell chosen for them.

[Tizianolol]

hi all, during this season of tournaments i havn t seen a tz list with both kairos and loc .. is possible do a competitive list with both this leaders?

[HMB]

9 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

hi all, during this season of tournaments i havn t seen a tz list with both kairos and loc .. is possible do a competitive list with both this leaders?

I think that a double LoC is still better. Kairos is more expensive and does not worth this higher cost

[Nico]

Kairos has a few specialist uses - mainly combo with the Sorceror Lord on Manticore.

[Tizianolol]

Ok..i thought the sure doble turn was potentially fantastic!! And his spell Is no bad! But maybe you right! There Is a reason if i have t seen a Kairos in a tourney list:)

[Freejack02]

1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Ok..i thought the sure doble turn was potentially fantastic!! And his spell Is no bad! But maybe you right! There Is a reason if i have t seen a Kairos in a tourney list:)

The warscroll for Kairos has been updated to specifically prohibit changing the initiative roll to see who takes the next turn. "However, this ability may not be used to affect the roll to see who takes the first turn in a battle round".

[Tizianolol]

Oh! Thats so sad.. I didn t know that so bye Kairos!:(

[santiel]

On 2017-07-21 at 9:20 AM, HMB said:

Here's an update on a Fatesworn list i could try to build in future 

It suffer the lack of my FAVOURITE AND BELOVED UNIT EVER: Chaos Knights, but it could be a nice solution for this warband

Heroes
Chaos Lord On Manticore (300)
- General
- Command Trait : Illusionist
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact : Timeslip Pendant

Lord Of Chaos (100)
- Artefact : Paradoxical Shield
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate : Glimpse the Future

Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Units
3 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (300)
-Greatblade

10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
-Axes & Shields
- Damned Icon
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
-Axes & Shields
- Damned Icon
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
-Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

1 x Chaos Warshrine (200)
- Mark of Chaos : Tzeentch

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (120)

Scenery
Balewind Vortex (100)
Total: 2000/ 2000
Heroes: 5/6 Battlelines: 3 (3+) Behemoths: 2/4 Artillery: 0/4

I tried the list we spoke about further up against my friends Seraphon list. He fielded both Firelance and Thunderquake formations and i just felt that the list had 0 punch. I do did some really tactical errors but i just couldnt deal with his beasts. I didnt die that easy either but he slowly just melted me. Do we have anything to throw in to deal with monsters?

 

how about putting in a tzaangor shaman and three skyfires?

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Heroes
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist  
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield  
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability  
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond

Battleline
5 x Chaos Knights (200)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
-  Slaves to Darkness Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
1 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (100)
- War Flail
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
1 x Chaos Warshrine (200)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)

Battalions
Fatesworn Warband (120)

Total: 1980/2000
 

[shadowgra]

3 skyfires won't do absolutely nothing in terms of damage, if you have not a big unit is simply not that effective. you are paying 300 points for a spell (even one that is not so strong) and 3 arrows a turn with 3+3+-1D3. 300 points. a lord of change for 3 arrows.

if u want to play skyfires go with more, like 6/9, over that imho is too competitive to be funny to play.

if i had to make a list from 0 of fatesworn i'd go:

Leaders:

CLoDM, illusionist, paradoxical,mot

Chaos Sorcerer Lord, bot

Gaunt summoner, sof

Battlelines:

18 Warriors of Chaos, shield 

18 marauders

9 marauders

9 marauders

Units:

3 gorebeasts chariots 

9 chaos knights, ensorcelled weapons

warshrine

fatesworn

this way your units are tanky like no tomorrow, warriors will be 3+ with mystic rerolling all saves, 6++/6++, for taking you down will take an age for the opponent. 3 gorebeasts pack the punch if adequately buffed. remember destiny dices on the charge. 10 knights will be your fast moving anvil, while the warriors are the slow one, less resilient but with quite an extra punch and can be brought to 3A 2+/3+/-1/1 and 2A 3+/4+/-1/1 which is not bad. ofc in this list you do not have high rend, but if you want to play the fatesworn, you do not have to bring rend, they have it on each troop. -1 won't be the best rend out there but is matchable with stormcast one and the resilience of this army is higher, mainly because of the saves vs mortals. all your troops have a 6++, those in the range of the warshrine have  a 6++. 

just some maths on 10 knight buffed with shield and paradoxical (warriors will have the warshrine). 27 wounds at 3+ rerollable/6++/6++, vs mortals 5+/6++/6++. to take them out is roughly 300 wounds with no rend. the fact that they can reroll saves of 1-2-3 means that they'll have no trouble survive even most shots. for example: 9 longstrikes firing at them. they'll do: 18 attacks, 6 mortal wounds on average and 8.33 damage. after saves knight have taken (always on average) 2.6 wounds from the non mortal damage and 2.8 from the mortal wounds one. you have taken out 80 points of knights with over 500 points of longstrikes. 

to you the judgehammer ^^

 

[santiel]

3 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

3 skyfires won't do absolutely nothing in terms of damage, if you have not a big unit is simply not that effective. you are paying 300 points for a spell (even one that is not so strong) and 3 arrows a turn with 3+3+-1D3. 300 points. a lord of change for 3 arrows.

if u want to play skyfires go with more, like 6/9, over that imho is too competitive to be funny to play.

if i had to make a list from 0 of fatesworn i'd go:

Leaders:

CLoDM, illusionist, paradoxical,mot

Chaos Sorcerer Lord, bot

Gaunt summoner, sof

Battlelines:

18 Warriors of Chaos, shield 

18 marauders

9 marauders

9 marauders

Units:

3 gorebeasts chariots 

9 chaos knights, ensorcelled weapons

warshrine

fatesworn

this way your units are tanky like no tomorrow, warriors will be 3+ with mystic rerolling all saves, 6++/6++, for taking you down will take an age for the opponent. 3 gorebeasts pack the punch if adequately buffed. remember destiny dices on the charge. 10 knights will be your fast moving anvil, while the warriors are the slow one, less resilient but with quite an extra punch and can be brought to 3A 2+/3+/-1/1 and 2A 3+/4+/-1/1 which is not bad. ofc in this list you do not have high rend, but if you want to play the fatesworn, you do not have to bring rend, they have it on each troop. -1 won't be the best rend out there but is matchable with stormcast one and the resilience of this army is higher, mainly because of the saves vs mortals. all your troops have a 6++, those in the range of the warshrine have  a 6++. 

just some maths on 10 knight buffed with shield and paradoxical (warriors will have the warshrine). 27 wounds at 3+ rerollable/6++/6++, vs mortals 5+/6++/6++. to take them out is roughly 300 wounds with no rend. the fact that they can reroll saves of 1-2-3 means that they'll have no trouble survive even most shots. for example: 9 longstrikes firing at them. they'll do: 18 attacks, 6 mortal wounds on average and 8.33 damage. after saves knight have taken (always on average) 2.6 wounds from the non mortal damage and 2.8 from the mortal wounds one. you have taken out 80 points of knights with over 500 points of longstrikes. 

to you the judgehammer ^^

 

Finally some math on this ******. Thank you for this comment. Im mostly playing with my group of friends and the only problem im really facing is as i mentioned above, Seraphon, neglecting rend below -2 and having some really strong support from the slaan together with the buffs from thunderquake. But ill try this out, thanks. 

[shadowgra]

Remember that vs seraphon the fact that the lord can shoot a free arcane bolt is nuts to take down temple guarda that only have 1 w each

[santiel]

5 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

Remember that vs seraphon the fact that the lord can shoot a free arcane bolt is nuts to take down temple guarda that only have 1 w each

Yes thats really good. But if id drop the fatesworn, but still use alot of stuff from StD. Do you have any suggestion for a list? I really liked the Skyfires and would love to try them out

[shadowgra]

In that case dropping the fatesworn knights go from good to bad, warriors can be ok, warshrine needs to be dropped, as gorebeasts and CLoDM. You can go for a mixer daemon/arcanites. Is a good list for Sure, Remember tho  that it is a completely differenti list, plays differently and has different mus from the fatesworn list i posted above. I simply prefer fatesworn, skyfires will be nerfed, slaves to darkness no

[Olincay]

Longtime lurker, first time tzeentch poster. 

After running stormcasts since sigmar dropped im thinking of dipping my toe into some DOT.

mini wise i really like the new arcanite and the mortal stuff, what's a pretty generic run of the mil list i can start working towards? 

So far I've only purchased some skyfires, but i have some old chaos warriors/knights hiding in a box somewhere too.