ogmaadn Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 First of all sorry but, as I explained on my introductory message on the forum, I'm sort of brand new on AoS and pretty much on the hobby since it's been a 12-years break and away from Warhammer and Games Workshop... So I'm an actual noob and that is why I'd need some help. I've decided to go for the Sylvaneth as my first army on AoS, and I've heard tons of praises about a combined Gnarlroot+Freespirits army, which is supposed to be the strongest and most feasible Sylvaneth list. Hence, I'd more likely play a list as it follows (2.000p): Spirit of Durthu Treelord Ancient Branchwynch 5 Tree-Revenants 5 Tree-Revenants 20 Dryads 3 Kurnoth Hunters 3 Kurnoth Hunters 3 Kurnoth Hunters Household Free Spirits Gnarlroot Wargrove As far as I know (which is very little so far since I've got no practice at all), this could be a pretty nice and balanced army. My main concern is about Kurnoth Hunters: it is my favourite Sylvaneth unit, specially when they carry bows, so that I'd absolutely love to spam hunters with bows all over the place and releasing a hellish arrow rain towards the enemy!! Specially considering the little range power this army has. So that was my plan at first: purchasing as many Hunters as I could, arming all of them with bows and mercilessly shooting the enemy! However, I'm not sure how well Hunters with bows would fit on a Free Spirit list... I don't think such ranged strategy could fit really well into a Free Spirit list. What should be the weapons for my 9 Kurnoth Hunters to carry in a list like this? In case I stick to the Hunters with Bows and a more ranged strategy, which feasible list could they best fit in? Is there such a list, or Hunters should always carry melee weapons by any means? I mean, even if I love Kurnoth Hunters with bows, I still want to play a decent army with some winning potential (although it could not be as cheesy as a Gnarlroot+Freespirits list). Thank you very much for helping and guiding me through my first steps on my return to this beautiful hobby And of course, any other suggestion, correction, addition or improvement to this list is really appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage8112 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Hi @ogmaadn If you heard about the combined Free Spirits/Gnarlwood list here, then that version and its tactics came out of a conversation another poster and I had regarding some tactics that could be used to build a hard-hitting, first turn, "alpha strike" list. The idea was originally to build a list to take everything possible right to the enemy at the top of turn 1, and to minimize the amount of attacks back. Originally this idea was built off the Outcasts battalion, but another player opted to write a hybrid list since the gnarlroot wargrove is so powerful in matched play. Generally, I am not a fan of the Freespirits/Gnarlroot list. It's not that it's bad (because it's not), but it tries to do too much all at the same time. It seems to me, the strength of the gnarlroot list is it's ability to win games by outlasting the enemy, while a freespirits approach requires a much more aggressive style of play to be most effective. The two seem at odds and to make it work, you have to sacrifice a little from what makes each part of the list effective. In general, the idea behind a Freespirits alpha-strike list, is to get up close in the enemy's face, and put out a massive amount of woods in the first turn. For that reason, the bow hunters are not an optimum weapon choice here. Greatswords perform better vs lower armor targets (worse than 4+), and scythes perform better if the target has an armor of better than 4+. If the target has an armor save of exactly 4+, they perform about the same. If you want to run bow hunters, then it's better to forget the Freespirits portion of your list as it's massive point investment (a little over 900 pts). Bow hunters have a 30" range, so they are unlikely to need the extra movement provided by the Freespirits battalion anyway. While it's nice to have the little extra movement on the durthu, if you're smart, you shouldn't need the bump to get into combat when you're ready for him to smash face. In general, the type of strategy needed to really make the most of an "alpha strike" list like the outcasts (or the freepsirits/gnarlroot hybrid even) is more of an advanced strategy, and there are significant risks involved with playing that aggressively. A pure gnarlroot list is very forgiving to play thanks to the extra healing, and the ability to bring an additional ORDER wizard (like a Celestial Hurricanium, the Sisters of the Thorn, or a Battlemage) to both bog the enemy down with spells + heal your own units. It would be my advice to build a pure gnarlroot list and get comfortable with it before trying the high-risk, high-reward play style necessary to make the alpha strike lists work. Hope that helps! -F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogmaadn Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 Thank you very much for your response @Mirage8112, it was really helpful!! Yep, I realized you are absolutely right about the issues on a combined Gnarlroot/Freespirit list, so I think I'm going for a pure Gnarlroot army. Therefore I'd stick to the list above but just leaving out the "Freespirit" and adding an Order Wizard. However, I've got a few important questions about what to add or replace in order to make this army better: - I am thinking of arming all of my Hunters (9) with bows. Is it way too much? ¿Should I better arm 6 of the Hunters with bows, and 3 with greatswords/scythes? - Which Order Wizard would be better for this army (considering that, if I'm not mistaken, there's only 120 points left to reach 2000? - About those 120 points left, should I better use them for another unit of Dryads, and then replacing my Branchwynch (or any other unit) for the Order Wizard? Or just adding that unit of Dryads? Thank you in advance once again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobume Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I recently faced a Gnarlroot army in a tournament with my Free people and I got utterly destroyed. That list was very similar to yours, but included a Loremaster. The ability to put "Hand of Glory" on the big beasts was really powerful (rerolling to-hit and to-wound). My opponent had six bow-hunters and three with scythes. It seemed to work pretty well. On the very first turn I got charged by a Treeman Ancient and three hunters, with a Spirit of Durthu lurking just behind, being ready to attack in the second wave. The Spirit was immune to rend 1 and had a 2+ save so it was basically un-killable except for mortal wounds. It seemed like a really tough army and it ended up going undefeated through the tournament with 4 major wins and a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Fundamentally the Sylvaneth are not the kings of alpha strike and shouldn't really try to do so. The best alpha strikes either create absurd damage in a single activation using a fast mega/tough unit (Necropolis Knights and Warpfire/Shock Gauntlet Stormfiends) or create absurd damage from a really cheap battleline unit buffed through the roof and sped up - Bloodletter bomb - where that unit can often score an objective through model count (think Border War - "Ghoul Patrol"). While the Durthu with Hand of Glory and Kurnoths with Scythes option is decent - because it's not built on stacking synergies, it doesn't do a multiple of the points cost of what you're using in damage. You end up potentially overcommitting. If your opponent walls off effectively (not letting you reach over to kill good stuff) and you don't win the double turn - you probably lose. I think you're better off playing the long game, chipping away at buffing characters, healing up damage taken to frustrate the enemy and teleporting to misdirect your opponent and score objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogmaadn Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 @jobume That sounds great! Loremaster would definitely be a great addition! Could you post the detailed unit list of that Gnarlroot army you faced? Thanks in advance @Nico Yes, you are absolutely right. I think I'm going for a pure Gnarlroot army, it looks quite scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobume Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 6 hours ago, ogmaadn said: @jobume That sounds great! Loremaster would definitely be a great addition! Could you post the detailed unit list of that Gnarlroot army you faced? Thanks in advance @Nico Yes, you are absolutely right. I think I'm going for a pure Gnarlroot army, it looks quite scary. @ogmaadn I might have some units wrong but i think it was this: 1 x Spirit of Durthu 1 x Treeman Ancient 1 x Branchwych 1 x Loremaster 20 x Dryads 10 x Dryads 5 x Tree-Revenants 6 x Kurnoth Hunters with Bows 3 x Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes 1 x Household 1 x Gnarlroot Wargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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