Grand Alliance Discussion

[Gitzdee]

The discussion with CoS losing mixed rules made me think about this. Just throwing a wild idea out there.

Would it actually be so bad if playing a grand alliance gets rewarded instead of rewarding only playing certain subfactions within a tome? Kind of how Big Waaagh works within Orruk Warclans. They dont have to make it that powerfull, but just give us something to play around with? A GA ability, some battletactics and maybe add a command ability could be enough? Could include some animosity rule for fun or to make things less powerfull.

This would inspire some people to play and proxy older models and maybe even buy a single unit from another faction they normally wouldnt have bought. They could even add generic GA rules to the free AoS rules, combined with the already free warscrolls would let people play with models they like and also give new players a flexible way to start collecting and enter the hobby. I think GW had some similar idea but came up with regiments of renown. The problem with this is that its really limited in a lot of ways.

The idea it that people can come up with a mixed CoS style army but not only limited to CoS. Let me play a Death army with Vampires, a Black Coach supported by FEC and design it from the ground up and paint it that way. I just want to get the most fun out of all miniatures available.

The only reasons i can think of why they wouldnt want to support this is that they actually dont want us to mix up armies or to prevent some unit being broken next to other units. I know this would not be ideal for tournament play but i think those people will stick with a optimally balanced or best newest tome anyway. That is not what im aiming for here.

(Hope my level of english is making my point come across here)

[Freemeta]

i played other game wih some option like this: cross faction army. to balance it your choices were restricted to a limited list of unit from different factions. it was great.

[Myrmidox]

I would really appreciate an overhaul of the grand alliance rules. Bring the soup, even when it is not the best for meta reasons. The rule of cool should be more important, at least at the non-tournament scene. I like Oathmarks system for example. You can create your own kingdom, nation, mix the units like you want. You can concentrate on only one faction, or could mix in more common units from other faction, in return you can't use some of the more elite units. One of the players created a easy to use army builder tool in a circle diagramm format.

This could be work for a Grand Alliance too, the more you mix factions the less elite units and subfaction specific traits, artifacts you can use.

[CDM]

Id say drop battletomes and increase grand alliance anyway. Just put the restrictions in  there. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by CDM

[Myrmidox]

41 minutes ago, CDM said:

Id say drop battletomes and increase grand alliance anyway. Just put the restrictions in  there. 

GW logic: Wouldn't this mean we will sell less books, we can't do this, it's an impossible task!

[Gitzdee]

4 minutes ago, Myrmidox said:

GW logic: Wouldn't this mean we will sell less books, we can't do this, it's an impossible task!

I would actually buy more models because i wouldnt have the battletome tax to make them usefull. I could just buy a few units i like and use them without the need to build a whole 1k or 2k army.

[Myrmidox]

A good point indeed. One big rule book, set of rules for the complete unit roster of a grand alliance. The battletomes could be made in only fluff/lore books. Some restrictions and coaltition rules here and there and it could work. I mean i have some more uncommon army conversion ideas, i have the materials, i have the grey plastic but in the end it would be neither competitive nor legal according to third edition rules.

[Gitzdee]

45 minutes ago, Myrmidox said:

A good point indeed. One big rule book, set of rules for the complete unit roster of a grand alliance. The battletomes could be made in only fluff/lore books. Some restrictions and coaltition rules here and there and it could work. I mean i have some more uncommon army conversion ideas, i have the materials, i have the grey plastic but in the end it would be neither competitive nor legal according to third edition rules.

They could keep the tomes for tournament play and path to glory and keep the fluff etc all there. Kind of how they handle thing with Warcry at the moment. Use tomes as a way to delve deeper into an army u like but make it optional for those who want to play that way.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Gitzdee
Words are difficult

[CDM]

I buy loads of battletomes but I buy them for the fluff! The lore , stories , artwork and to learn more about the faction. The bit I hardly look at? The rules! I do on occasion look at the faction rules to get a flavour if what they're upto. (When I was younger I used to like building lists and making fluffy 40k lists, the old system was very hard to do this!) 

I would still but them but I dont like the thought of them trying to make money off rules outside the main rulebook. Could easily provide rules digitally and In the GHB.

If they're not coming away from rules in battletomes I wouldn't mind the faction rules and warscrolls in a larger grand alliance book. You still pick a faction and you can still ally.

Path to glory has definitely helped the usage of tomes though, a strong narrative reason for the book to exist.

 

[Hollow]

11 hours ago, CDM said:

I buy loads of battletomes but I buy them for the fluff! The lore , stories , artwork and to learn more about the faction.

I own every single AoS V3 Battletome so far. (Cities and FEC will be the last two which will complete this edition's collection). I love having a "library", I like the feel and touch of physical books, the art, the way in which they are laid out, the stories and the cozy immersive feeling I get when I sit down in an evening to look through them. I buy, build and collect models under the four Grand Alliance banners. Order, Chaos, Destruction and Death. (If I like a model I buy it) my painting desk currently has a Stormcast Vindicator Squad, a Slaves to Darkness Warrior Squad, a Sauras Warrior Squad and some KruelBoyz Gutrippaz. I like chopping and changing between factions, models and styles. The last factor that I consider when making a purchase from GW is "What are the rules like?" That consideration only comes when I am putting together a Matched play army for pick-up games or compiling lists for tournaments. 

On 8/6/2023 at 7:26 AM, Gitzdee said:

Let me play a Death army with Vampires, a Black Coach supported by FEC and design it from the ground up and paint it that way. I just want to get the most fun out of all miniatures available.

You can already do this! It is called Narrative play! I understand that there are different types of folk. I just don't relate to the idea that some people need not only to be led to water but have it cupped and forced down their throat as well. Why can you not already do this? Why do you need GW to spell something out in order to do it? The only people that matter are you and the people you play with. This is an important point as if your only gaming outlet is pick-up games with people you do not know, there has to be some restrictions and a balancing aspect for those encounters. I think that GW should (and probably will) have 3 distinct "ways to play" going forward. Vanguard (Buy & Play) Matched (Points & Play) and Narrative (Story & Play). 

I think it will be really interesting to see the new 10th Edition SpaceMarine and Tyranid Codex, I think they might give some insight into how Battletomes for AoS V4 will be approached. I hope that we will see a similar launch for AoS V4 as we did with 40k 10th, with all Battlescrolls available for free online (and through the app) at launch. With physical Card decks available for all factions for those who want a physical copy. With Vanguard being the AoS Version of Combat Patrol, It would be nice to see Grand Alliance rules under the Narrative Play banner allowing for cool and thematic combinations without worrying too much about great balance like in Vanguard or Matched Play. 

[Gitzdee]

32 minutes ago, Hollow said:

I own every single AoS V3 Battletome so far. (Cities and FEC will be the last two which will complete this edition's collection). I love having a "library", I like the feel and touch of physical books, the art, the way in which they are laid out, the stories and the cozy immersive feeling I get when I sit down in an evening to look through them. I buy, build and collect models under the four Grand Alliance banners. Order, Chaos, Destruction and Death. (If I like a model I buy it) my painting desk currently has a Stormcast Vindicator Squad, a Slaves to Darkness Warrior Squad, a Sauras Warrior Squad and some KruelBoyz Gutrippaz. I like chopping and changing between factions, models and styles. The last factor that I consider when making a purchase from GW is "What are the rules like?" That consideration only comes when I am putting together a Matched play army for pick-up games or compiling lists for tournaments. 

You can already do this! It is called Narrative play! I understand that there are different types of folk. I just don't relate to the idea that some people need not only to be led to water but have it cupped and forced down their throat as well. Why can you not already do this? Why do you need GW to spell something out in order to do it? The only people that matter are you and the people you play with. This is an important point as if your only gaming outlet is pick-up games with people you do not know, there has to be some restrictions and a balancing aspect for those encounters. I think that GW should (and probably will) have 3 distinct "ways to play" going forward. Vanguard (Buy & Play) Matched (Points & Play) and Narrative (Story & Play). 

I think it will be really interesting to see the new 10th Edition SpaceMarine and Tyranid Codex, I think they might give some insight into how Battletomes for AoS V4 will be approached. I hope that we will see a similar launch for AoS V4 as we did with 40k 10th, with all Battlescrolls available for free online (and through the app) at launch. With physical Card decks available for all factions for those who want a physical copy. With Vanguard being the AoS Version of Combat Patrol, It would be nice to see Grand Alliance rules under the Narrative Play banner allowing for cool and thematic combinations without worrying too much about great balance like in Vanguard or Matched Play. 

Narrative play has never been for me. Cant really put my finger on it. I kind of like Open play, but it feels incomplete and rushed. I would also like a focus on 750 or 1000 point games on a halve size table. This could be done in the next edition and i also feel like AoS needs a restart. Not that 3rd is bad imho but i would like a game that doesnt require so much bookkeeping even more. This edition is really hard to teach to new players, my wife or friends who want to play a single game. Could maybe give Narrative play another go but at the moment i am really enjoying Warcry. Too bad it doesnt let u use all models and isnt updated when new models are released.

Could u explain what combat patrol does? Havent really played 40k in a while and havent looked at 10th at all yet.

[Hollow]

13 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Could u explain what combat patrol does? Havent really played 40k in a while and havent looked at 10th at all yet.

Sure! Combat Patrol is where you buy a Combat Patrol box (Similar to the AoS Vanguard Box) and it is a force ready to play out of the box (With each faction having a Combat Patrol Box roughly balanced against each of the other faction boxes) The models in them have their own slightly simpler and tweaked Datasheets (Warscolls) different from the Datasheets used in Matched play. The idea is that you can buy a Combat Patrol Box, Download the Combat Patrol Datasheets for free for the models in the box, and you can play against any other Combat Patrol Box in a roughly balanced battle. No other purchase is necessary. It's a really great way to get people into the hobby IMO. Do you like the look of a different faction? All you need to do is buy a single box, Download free rules and you are good to go to play against any other Combat Patrol. The games take roughly an hour, there is no list building (as the list is the contents of the box) and all the rules are free to download. 

Great for new players, and for those who want a simpler, shorter, pick-up game of roughly balanced forces. (At a smaller and simpler scale) 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Hollow

[Beliman]

Im not a fan of GA. I think that they were good at the time but they are not needed anymore.

I prefer some allied and coalition tables or something like that.