Fighting first and fighting last question

[frostfire]

There are several abilities allow units to fight at the start or the end of the combat phase out there since last year and these abilities do impact the meta as we all witness.

My question is that if several these kind of abilities affect a unit, how do these abilities work? Do their cancel each other out or does the later ability just takes priority? 

I konw that some faqs have explained this issue, but the description of Horrible Fascination and the faq about the Wildfire Taurus seem to be confusingly contraditory.

[Isotop]

2 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

Why this isn't made readily available on the community page I'll never know but this explains the sequencing for fighting first, last, and in between. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but how does this answer @frostfire´s question at all? They are asking for the specific case of a unit having to fight at the start and also having to fight at the end of the combat phase (because two abilities affect the unit). As far as I can see, the "Who fights first" article does not handle this case.

 

11 hours ago, frostfire said:

There are several abilities allow units to fight at the start or the end of the combat phase out there since last year and these abilities do impact the meta as we all witness.

My question is that if several these kind of abilities affect a unit, how do these abilities work? Do their cancel each other out or does the later ability just takes priority? 

I konw that some faqs have explained this issue, but the description of Horrible Fascination and the faq about the Wildfire Taurus seem to be confusingly contraditory.

Lets call a "fight at the end of the combat phase" ability E and a "fight at the start of the combat phase" ability S. Normally, a unit affected by both E and S has to follow Wildfire Taurus Designers' Commentary. For everyone reading this thread not knowing about this one, here it is:

 

Q: If a Wildfire Taurus’ Whirlwind of Destruction ability forces an Idoneth Deepkin unit to fight at the end of the next combat phase, but the High Tide battle trait is in effect, does the unit fight at the start or the end of the combat phase? A: If two abilities that apply to a unit are contradictory and cannot both be applied, the one that was applied second takes precedence. In this case, that means the Idoneth Deepkin unit would fight at the end of the combat phase. Note this only occurs when it impossible to use both abilities. For example, if one ability gave a unit a hit modifier of +1 and another ability gave the same unit a hit modifier of -1, both would be applied (and effectively cancel each other out).

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/age_of_sigmar_beasts_of_chaos_designers_commentary_en.pdf)

 

Your confusion about Horrible Fascination (Locus of Diversion has the same wording) is understandable. Though in the end, you just have to follow the rules on this one. The abovementioned Slaanesh abilities specifically tell us that they are "cancelled out" when conflicting with S. Also, the Slaanesh Designers´Commentary tells us that Horrible Fascination + Locus on a unit also affected by S still cancel each other out. 

"Normal" S, like Idoneth Deepkin High Tide simply do not tell us what happens when they are conflicting with E. That is the point where the Designers´Commentary kicks in and instructs us how to solve the situation.

 

Long story short:

Horrible Fascination and/or Locus of Diversion + S affecting a unit = the unit fights normally

Any other E + S affecting a unit = the ability applied later than the other takes precedence

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Isotop

[SwampHeart]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

Why this isn't made readily available on the community page I'll never know but this explains the sequencing for fighting first, last, and in between.