Gristlegore GKoTG and Wildfire Taurus interaction

[Deadkitten]

So there has obviously been talk about how to counter the Gristlegore Ghoul King on Terrorgheist.  The Savage Strike rule:

"This general fights at the start of the combat phase, before the players pick any other units to fight in that combat phase. This general cannot fight again in that combat phase unless an ability or spell allows it to fight more than once."

I've generally understood that the player who has priority can choose the ordering of effects.  Here is a Core Rules Designer Commentary FAQ

The Taurus Spell:

The BoC Taurus Endless Spell Designer Commentary FAQ:

 

So are Command Traits just always on or would they trigger?  These two rulings seem a bit counter-intuitive.  Assume it is the BoC player's turn.  They cast Taurus which affects the GKoTG.  The BoC player then charges the GKoTG.  What happens?  

Scenario A:

Both the Taurus and Savage Strike try to trigger but are "contradictory."  Since it is the BoC player's turn, the Taurus applies.  Then Savage Strike applies.  Since Savage Strike was applied second, it takes precedence and the GKoTG fights at the beginning of the combat phase.  This seems completely against what would be expected.

Scenario B:

Savage Strike takes affect at the beginning of the game.  Later, the BoC player cast the Taurus, affecting the GKoTG.  Since it was the second effect, it applies and the GKoTG fights last.  Can it not fight at all given the "This general cannot fight again in that combat phase unless an ability or spell allows it to fight more than once" line in Savage Strike?

Scenario C

I've completely messed everything up......

 

 

[Fluttershy]

I guess Command Traits are always on.

If the Gristlegore General gets hit by the Tarus he will fight at the end of the combat phase.

[SwampHeart]

Obviously we've been discussing this in the BoC thread but I'll put my 2 cents here as well.

I think - from the BoC Designer Commentary its clear that the bull overwrites Savage Strike. There is no language regarding when a command trait is used anywhere in the GHB or main rules (that I could find at least) - they are just 'on' all the time. Otherwise you'd have rules interactions for things like rolling above the wound characteristic, do you roll above the starting profile or the modified by CT profile.  To state my argument more simply - given the lack of timing in the rules I feel we must assume CTs are are in effect from the beginning of the game. I think we can also draw a reasonable parallel to the effect of High Tide which also lacks a a specific trigger (we know it changes each turn but there is no language on when specifically to apply it). Now given that a Command Trait is always on then the Wildfire Taurus is always the most recent affect applied which would mean it always take precedence. 

As to the more specific argument of 'can a model with Savage Strike attack at all if affected by a Wildfire Taurus (or itchy nuisance as well)?' this one I'm not as sure on. If the Taurus cancels out the strike first does it also cancel out the entire language of Savage Strike? If yes then then Savage Strike model can fight in the normal turn order. However if it only cancels the timing then the model couldn't fight at all because the rest of the language is still in effect. The more I think about it I think the Wildfire Taurus cancels the entirety of Savage Strike - because of the way the designer question is worded (if two abilities...) and so the Savage Strike model would get to fight in normal order. 

[Deadkitten]

23 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Obviously we've been discussing this in the BoC thread but I'll put my 2 cents here as well.

I think - from the BoC Designer Commentary its clear that the bull overwrites Savage Strike. There is no language regarding when a command trait is used anywhere in the GHB or main rules (that I could find at least) - they are just 'on' all the time. Otherwise you'd have rules interactions for things like rolling above the wound characteristic, do you roll above the starting profile or the modified by CT profile.  To state my argument more simply - given the lack of timing in the rules I feel we must assume CTs are are in effect from the beginning of the game. I think we can also draw a reasonable parallel to the effect of High Tide which also lacks a a specific trigger (we know it changes each turn but there is no language on when specifically to apply it). Now given that a Command Trait is always on then the Wildfire Taurus is always the most recent affect applied which would mean it always take precedence. 

As to the more specific argument of 'can a model with Savage Strike attack at all if affected by a Wildfire Taurus (or itchy nuisance as well)?' this one I'm not as sure on. If the Taurus cancels out the strike first does it also cancel out the entire language of Savage Strike? If yes then then Savage Strike model can fight in the normal turn order. However if it only cancels the timing then the model couldn't fight at all because the rest of the language is still in effect. The more I think about it I think the Wildfire Taurus cancels the entirety of Savage Strike - because of the way the designer question is worded (if two abilities...) and so the Savage Strike model would get to fight in normal order. 

Totally agree with both parts.  I was initially under the impression that the Command Abilities "Trigger."  I was also concerned that the FAQ I was thinking about isn't exactly worded the way that I thought it was.  There are some other implications (artifacts with Beginning of Combat language) so I want to make sure I fully understand the interaction.  Regarding the two pieces of Savage Strike, hopefully the GKoTG is dead by then so it doesn't matter 😄