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Freeguild Handgunner Piper and charging from behind


Painbringer
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Freeguild Handgunners can include Piper, who has the following ability: "Models in this unit may be Pipers. Once per turn, if an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3" of a unit that includes any Pipers, they can signal their unit to stand and shoot; each model then can then shoot its missile weapon at the charging unit."

What happens if the unit is charged from behind? The rules state that "... the target unit must be visible to the model with the weapon (if unsure, stoop down and look from behind the shooting model to see if a model from the target unit is visible)." However, this applies for making attacks - and the rules for Pipers do not explicitly state that this is an attack. My friend and me ended up discussing this in our game yesterday (I had a unit that was able to charge his Handgunners in the back).

What do you guys think?

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2 hours ago, Painbringer said:

Thanks for the answer. The only thing REALLY bothering me is the part I quoted. I know that LOS rules in Age of Sigmar are very funky, but I'm wondering if this means that facing of the minis is irrelevant? The targeting rules apply per model and models from the same unit can see hrough eah other, that's fine. They can also shoot a model if they see any part of it, also fine. However, this is in coflict with the part where the rules say that the target must be visible from the model's point of view.  I would never interpret this in such a way that a model can shoot "backwards".

I'm appreciating the answer, it's just that I have never seen AoS being played like this. Even in battle reports I've watched, the models were facing in the direction of the enemy unit. I pay only with a group of my friends - and we've never played AoS using 360 degree line of sight for shooting, because of that " the target unit must be visible to the model with the weapon " part of the rules. We never considerer "true line of sight" to be "360 degree line of sight". It just bothers me that we played it wrong :D

FAQ, page 2;

Q: Is there any kind of facing in Warhammer Age of Sigmar? Can models only shoot or move in a direction that they are facing?

A: No to both questions.

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Yeah Models are considered to have a full 360’ view of the area around them. It doesn’t really matter which way the model is actually facing only that you can draw a clear line of sight from the model to the target.  There is not necessarily a proper way for models to face outside of rule of cool.

There is no behind to charge from anymore.  Directional facings were something back in WFB days but not in sigmar. Your models could all be looking the wrong way and still have line of sight.

And it is an attack from the piper’s ability to allow a sequence breaking where you can shoot out of phase. The line of sight rule is just to verify in cases when shooting across terrain that might not be tall enough to hide the models or if a larger model is possibly blocking the way.

 

So in answer the gunners get to fire if you charge them and get within 3” of a unit with pipers. There isn’t much you can do to stop this unless you have something that prevents them from shooting. Like say an 1” of citadel woods though a charge has to end within 1/2” of a unit to count as successful. But nothing to stop charging a different unit close by and getting the distance to pile in on the gunners after.

Edited by King Taloren
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3 hours ago, King Taloren said:

The line of sight rule is just to verify in cases when shooting across terrain that might not be tall enough to hide the models or if a larger model is possibly blocking the way. 

Thanks for the answer. The only thing REALLY bothering me is the part I quoted. I know that LOS rules in Age of Sigmar are very funky, but I'm wondering if this means that facing of the minis is irrelevant? The targeting rules apply per model and models from the same unit can see hrough eah other, that's fine. They can also shoot a model if they see any part of it, also fine. However, this is in coflict with the part where the rules say that the target must be visible from the model's point of view.  I would never interpret this in such a way that a model can shoot "backwards".

I'm appreciating the answer, it's just that I have never seen AoS being played like this. Even in battle reports I've watched, the models were facing in the direction of the enemy unit. I pay only with a group of my friends - and we've never played AoS using 360 degree line of sight for shooting, because of that " the target unit must be visible to the model with the weapon " part of the rules. We never considerer "true line of sight" to be "360 degree line of sight". It just bothers me that we played it wrong :D

Edited by Painbringer
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29 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

FAQ, page 2;

Q: Is there any kind of facing in Warhammer Age of Sigmar? Can models only shoot or move in a direction that they are facing?

A: No to both questions.

OK, I missed this somehow. This was the kind of clarification I was looking for. Thanks.

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