Allegiance abilities - Ironjaw

[Tim Davis]

I've been reading a few threads on here and have confused myself.

im running a pure Ironjawz army at 2000pts - the only way I can do this is to have an Ironjawz allegiance so I can get three Battleline units.

The confusion is I've seen people taking artefacts from the destruction allegiance in  Ironjawz aligned lists - am I missing something that allows me to benefit from both allegiances? From what I've read I have to pick between the two as my army qualifies for both.

Thanks!

[Dez]

Hi Tim!

Yes you can build your list with the Ironjawz Allegiance, but still benefit from Destruction Allegiance Abilities and Artifacts. Here is a link to the FAQ that came out the same day as The General's Handbook https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/Warhammer_aos_generals_handbook_en.pdf

 

Quote

You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to.

Also, Welcome to Da Waaagh and choosin' da only PROPPA army! All da rest are weedy gitz!

[Tim Davis]

But I read it as the Ironjawz allegiance "ability" is to have their units as  Battleline units, if I choose to take the destruction abilities then I don't have an Ironjawz allegiance.

 

for example the bonesplitters, if I choose to take bonesplitters as my allegiance I get their special artefacts and also maniaks and boars become Battleline, if I take them as a destruction then they get the destruction alliance but won't get he extra battleline units. As per pg 156 in the GH

 

 

[mmimzie]

Nah so that way it works. And trust me we all thought it was as you said so don't worry.

 

The battle alliegence thing just means you have to have access to that alliegence. Now the rules say you must pick one of your available alliegence to gain abilities from before the game starts.

 

So basically you only really pick your alliegence right as the game is start, and not at list creation. So while at list creation you have access to both alliegences meaning you get the special battle line of what ever alliegence you have, you have to pick one of them to get abilities from at the start of the game. 

 

Sorry if I didn't explain it super well I'm still waiking up.

[Tim Davis]

But the faq says the opposite 

[mmimzie]

Well ignoring how i decribed it. It even says right there in the Last line of the 2nd to last "paragraph" "You can choose to take either the allegiance abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to, or the allegiance abilities for the Grand Alliance your army belongs to."

So?? That basically answers you question exactly? Also an alliegence's artifacts, command traits, and abilities are all under the same section of XXXX abilities.

[N_Watson]

Ye, I am confused as to what part of the FAQ is confusing lol. 

 

"You can choose to take either the abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to or the abilities for the grand alliance your army belongs to. "

The part where you can take Brutes as battleline if you have a full ironjaws list isn't an "Ability". It is just a side note. Sylvaneth have this option as well with tree revenants, where they can be battleline if the full force is sylvaneth.  

This would give the new armies like Sylvaneth an automatic advantage over any of the older dedicated factions like Ironjaws, Fyreslayers etc. 

[Tim Davis]

To me the faq is saying you can pick one or the other and you're not restricted to just one.

 

so as an example, sylvaneth can choose to be either a Sylvaneth allegiance or an Order allegiance. If they pick sylvaneth they get the abilities, artefacts and battleline units for being sylvaneth. If they pick Order they get the order abilities, artefacts etc. 

 

So if I wrote my list, wrote my allegiance was sylvaneth as per the FAQ, and took my three battleline units as tree revenants I couldn't then be an Order allegiance to get their abilities as then I wouldn't be a sylvaneth allegiance and wouldn't have any battleline units.

Back to Ironjaws, if I write on my list that my allegiance is Ironjaws so I can get the brutes as battleline, I can't then choose the Destruction allegiance abilities as I'm not a destruction allegiance. Clearly it's a disadvantage for the older books but hey ho.

 

The generals handbook is pretty clear that I have to pick an alliance on page 156, the FAQ changes a different page (106) for when writing an army roster.

[mmimzie]

8 minutes ago, Tim Davis said:

To me the faq is saying you can pick one or the other and you're not restricted to just one.

 

so as an example, sylvaneth can choose to be either a Sylvaneth allegiance or an Order allegiance. If they pick sylvaneth they get the abilities, artefacts and battleline units for being sylvaneth. If they pick Order they get the order abilities, artefacts etc. 

 

So if I wrote my list, wrote my allegiance was sylvaneth as per the FAQ, and took my three battleline units as tree revenants I couldn't then be an Order allegiance to get their abilities as then I wouldn't be a sylvaneth allegiance and wouldn't have any battleline units.

Back to Ironjaws, if I write on my list that my allegiance is Ironjaws so I can get the brutes as battleline, I can't then choose the Destruction allegiance abilities as I'm not a destruction allegiance. Clearly it's a disadvantage for the older books but hey ho.

 

The generals handbook is pretty clear that I have to pick an alliance on page 156, the FAQ changes a different page (106) for when writing an army roster.

No your doing it wrong. The wording is clear in the FAQ erata'd rules here, now:

 

First, You make your army and pick your alliegence. Bam that's the whole first paragraph. So I make my ironjaws list. It is allegiance ironjaws. Blam i can take those units as battle line.

Second, Now before i put my first unit down i can "You can choose to take either the abilities for the allegiance your army belongs to or the abilities for the grand alliance your army belongs to. "  Note the army never stops being allegiance Ironjaws. Note that aking the destruction abilities aren't suddenly changing your allegiance. Your still allegiance Iron jaws, but you can still use the destruction alliance stuff.  It's super duper clear here.

 

You never stop being Ironjaws allegiance ever. As it is written so it shall be done.

[N_Watson]

I read it differently. 

I read it that the part where you construct a list, is done before you go to the table. The choosing of allegiance abilities and artefacts is done at the table, before deployment. This could be why they separated each part in different paragraphs. The online discussion I saw showed that the intention of this errata was to allow all dedicated factions access to artefacts and allegiance abilities. How one sided would the game be with only one player having allegiance abilities, artefacts and swathing magical lores to choose from. 

It seems that since the generals handbook has come out, some people have forgotten "The most important rule" and have stopped applying common sense. 

Without this, there are some armies, (some major releases like the Ironjawz) are just unplayable in matched play as we have no battleline options. Same for beastclaw until next week. 

Do yo think the intention of the errata was to give Sylvaneth MORE options??? lol

[Knight of Ruin]

Almost. Read the second paragraph.

 

To me it seems this:

When you pick an army, and it has an allegiance like ironjawz or sylvaneth, it does not lose its status as still being a destruction or order allegiance.

Ironjawz only armies have brutes as battleline and access to ironjawz and destruction perks. However they must note down when making the list which they use. This i read from the last sentence, second paragraph. Which units they can use as battleline is determinef by the fact they become an ironjawz allegiance by being ironjawz only. However they are still part of grand alliance destruction. 

 

Desturction forces, say an army woth a few ogors, a few orroks and a giant are not part of a specific alliance allegiance, thus do not have access to such a perk. However they are still destruction and can still use the destruction perks.

20 hours ago, Tim Davis said:

But the faq says the opposite