Gift of the Heavens Rules Dispute

[Urzig]

I played a game last night against a Seraphon list with the Slann's Gift of the Heaven's command ability. My opponent believes that it is a bubble effect until his next hero phase, so that any friendly units that move or charge within 10" gain fly and the re-roll (so if they weren't there in the hero phase, then moved there in the movement/charge phase). I believe that it is all units within 10" of when it is used in the hero phase gain the benefit, and you retain the benefit if those units move away in later phases (so you retain it while moving away, and units that move within 10" in a later phase don't gain the benefit).

If his interpretation is right, he also argues that since you start your move with fly, even when you move outside of 10" you would continue to fly your full move.

Am I in the wrong here? Or am I correct in thinking he is interpreting this in a really weird way?

[heywoah_twitch]

"If slann starmaster uses this ability, Seraphon units from your army that are within 10" ... "Until your next hero phase, those units can fly..."

These words imply it is an aoe that grants only those units that were within 10" when the ability was used get the effect (and keep it regardless of where they go later), and not an aura that sticks around live-updating.

[CygnusMaximus]

I'm the Seraphon player in question, and I think that, as far as actual effectiveness is concerned, both interpretations are probably equally effective.  The rule, in its entirety:

If a Slann Starmaster uses this ability, SERAPHON units from your army that are within 10" of him are wrapped in a mantle of Azyrite energy, allowing them to disregard the natural laws that govern the Mortal Realms. Until your next hero phase, those units can fly and you can re-roll failed save rolls for them in the shooting phase.

It doesn't say "When a Slann Starmaster..." it says "If a Slann Starmaster" (I think the former would be more clear and would support Urzig's interpretation).   And it doesn't say "units in range when the ability was activated" it just says "those units" - so which units are "those"?  "SERAPHON units from your army that are within 10" of him."  It says nothing about WHEN they're within 10".  So the two interpretations are as follows:

1. The ability "sticks" to the units that were within 10" when the ability was used.  This is honestly fine but can be a bit of a book-keeping nightmare if a lot of units are affected since the ability persists into their Charge Phases and into the enemy shooting phase.

2. The ability's "bubble" persists - units that are within 10" when they begin their moves effectively have "Fly." Units within 10" when they charge can charge like flyers, and units with 10" in the enemy shooting phase get to reroll failed saves.  

In 2, you only need to remember that the Slann activated the ability, so it's certainly a bit easier in that regard; but then units that use their move to leave the area of effect no longer fly when they charge or get to reroll failed saves, but models that enter it with their regular move would fly in their charge phase and, if they remained within 10", would reroll failed saves in the enemy shooting phase.

All told, I think it's a wash as neither interpretation is any more effective than another, but how it's implemented from one to the other is drastically different.  When I used the ability, I assumed it behaved in the second fashion, while Urzig argued for the first - we diced off and carried on, but the discussion continues!

[heywoah_twitch]

It doesn't say "units within 10inches" or even "while they are within" which seems to be the normal language for constant aoe effects, it says "those units" which seems pretty cut and dry that it's not a traveling bubble.

[Somanlius]

On 7/21/2018 at 3:54 PM, CygnusMaximus said:

I'm the Seraphon player in question, and I think that, as far as actual effectiveness is concerned, both interpretations are probably equally effective.  The rule, in its entirety:

If a Slann Starmaster uses this ability, SERAPHON units from your army that are within 10" of him are wrapped in a mantle of Azyrite energy, allowing them to disregard the natural laws that govern the Mortal Realms. Until your next hero phase, those units can fly and you can re-roll failed save rolls for them in the shooting phase.

It doesn't say "When a Slann Starmaster..." it says "If a Slann Starmaster" (I think the former would be more clear and would support Urzig's interpretation).   And it doesn't say "units in range when the ability was activated" it just says "those units" - so which units are "those"?  "SERAPHON units from your army that are within 10" of him."  It says nothing about WHEN they're within 10".  So the two interpretations are as follows:

1. The ability "sticks" to the units that were within 10" when the ability was used.  This is honestly fine but can be a bit of a book-keeping nightmare if a lot of units are affected since the ability persists into their Charge Phases and into the enemy shooting phase.

2. The ability's "bubble" persists - units that are within 10" when they begin their moves effectively have "Fly." Units within 10" when they charge can charge like flyers, and units with 10" in the enemy shooting phase get to reroll failed saves.  

In 2, you only need to remember that the Slann activated the ability, so it's certainly a bit easier in that regard; but then units that use their move to leave the area of effect no longer fly when they charge or get to reroll failed saves, but models that enter it with their regular move would fly in their charge phase and, if they remained within 10", would reroll failed saves in the enemy shooting phase.

All told, I think it's a wash as neither interpretation is any more effective than another, but how it's implemented from one to the other is drastically different.  When I used the ability, I assumed it behaved in the second fashion, while Urzig argued for the first - we diced off and carried on, but the discussion continues!

I think I prefer your interpritation, it makes the bookeeping and remembering which units are affected much easier. 

[Choombatta]

Or just use tokens to represent which units have the effect.

That is how we have been playing it, as #1, with tokens to show which units are affected until the next Seraphon Hero Phase.