Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[MidasKiss]

8 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

I haven't actually used the Acorn much myself, preferring to default to Briarsheath, but without any Treelords and with less points on the table my first thought was to reach for the acorn too. 

When it comes to escalation, Perhaps if you split up the Dryads into two units of 10 (they will still be resilient enough at those points levels) you could swap out the Revenants for a Branchwraith, and have the dryads just hold out for a turn, ideally by your free wyldwood (if you get the choice of table side). Then bring on the bow hunters and Branchwraith, giving her acorn and verdant blessing,  for two woods between you and the enemy. Finally the 2 scythe hunter units which can come on straight away and teleport to where you need them.

In Blood and Glory and Escalation I would leave some/most of my units in the Hidden Enclaves until you have wyldwoods near the objectives and then apply the appropriate unit to the required destination, again with acorn and verdant blessing, you shouldn't miss the Treelord ancient too much. 

Having a housemate who plays the game must be awesome, let me know how your game goes. I think at 1000 points it would be hard for them to take down Alarielle easily!

Alternatively to the acorn, Ranu's Lamentiri would give you a 75% chance of casting Verdant Blessing, and then give you plus one to mystic shields and arcane bolts for the rest of the game. That 25% fail could be a big deal though  I like that strategy though, thanks Aaron. 

I will look into getting a Branchwraith, the -1 to hit her would be nice and more models is always nice. She's just been out of stock here for a while. I'm going to start forcing myself to leave things in the Enclaves to just get that strategy deep into my mindset. When I started out I tried to keep it simple but it's about time I try step it up a notch. 

Again, always appreciate your insight.

7 hours ago, SentinelGuy said:

So is anyone using any of the groves apart from the Gnarlroot one? There's no doubt that Gnarl is the way to go if you want a lot of magic, but how about quality over quantity? Harvestboon gives you a straight up +1 to cast and another magic item which boosts range and hands out an extra spell.

I've been writing lists for the others too, but as it was said above the Gnarlroot is so achievable if you just buy the getting started box + one unit of Tree revenants you're there. The one with the Duardin could be fun, as could the lists you've written above. The Free Spirits one is something I will definitely play soon in the future.

5 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

 

Really? That surprises me.

I've seen the Wyldwoods thing brought up a few times now and I just don't see it being viable. I see them as teleport beacons and just consider the deadly and roused by magic clauses as bonus if they go off.   

I certainly don't see it as one of our only options!

Sylvaneth are one of the most maneuvreable armies out there, can be incredibly resilient, and between Kurnth Hunters and Spirits of Durthu kick out extraordinary damage. 

Kurnoth Hunters are fantastic, and amazing value at their price point. 

The biggest thing I struggle with is that the majority of sylvaneth hit on 4+ and there is no in-faction way to boost that. Another reason why Gnarlroot is so popular is that it allows access to those Order Wizards which can fix that (notably Loremaster and Hurricanum). 

I actually feel like we are strong contenders in every phase.

 

Aaron

Yeah, I've found the Sylvaneth Wyldwoods to be a nice bit of extra damage when I don't expect it, but it's never gone off when it would be really awesome. It would be nice if the Treelord had a once per game ability to gauruntee them to go off, might make the basic Treelord kit a bit more enticing. 

Playing Sylvaneth, and getting beat down more than I'd like as a new player, I still never feel like Sylvaneth are weak. I feel like the Kurnoth hunters will start a new era of victory

[Forestreveries]

5 hours ago, MidasKiss said:

 I'm going to start forcing myself to leave things in the Enclaves to just get that strategy deep into my mindset. When I started out I tried to keep it simple but it's about time I try step it up a notch. 

Again, always appreciate your insight.

 

I have just been keeping my Dryads and Tree Revenants back to spring into objectives without the enemy having a chance to attack them first really. 

In Take and Hold I will tend to leave my battleline units on my objective and send the monsters and Kurnoth forwards.

 

in Blood and Glory I will leave my Battleline hidden until turn 4, but planning ahead with Wykdwoods near the objectives. If the enemy has a strong hold on an objective or is able to deny you emerging from one of your woods by turn 3 you want to think about pulling them out elsewhere and running for it for the last 2 turns.

 

Escalation isn't that obvious to me, it depends on what your opponent has really. I would place the free wyldwood near one of the objectives so that Dryads can sit in it and be -1 to hit. You have to deploy battleline units first so I'd just aim to hold or at least contest the objectives but I wouldn't want to commit too aggressively unless their battleline units are worse than yours. (Just sit in range under protection of woods and / or cover if possible and try not to die).

 

Border War I will tend to attack one flank hard, then bring a battleline unit out to hold it and move the heavy hitters to the other flank to secure that one.

For me consistently scoring and denying the outer 2 objectives  is the way to win this one, but always keep an eye on dropping a wood behind your opponent and jumping over them if they overcommit. You also want to keep a strong defence for your "home" objective (a great place for a unit of hunters with bows with a Dryad Screen).

 

Three Places of Power is a great one for Sylvaneth. The battleline units are much more expendable in this scenario so using them to screen your heroes becomes their primary role. You want a Wyldwood on each objective, ideally with a Treelord surrounded by dryads inside. If your opponent has weaker support Heroes rather than fights ones, Teee Revenants can potentially be used to assassinate here.

A Gift from the Heavens is also great for sylvaneth, as you can react quicker than most armies to the meteor drops. If you manage to get a Wyldwood in each quarter before they come down (which you feasibly can with acorn, verdant blessing and TLA's) then you can apply force where needed straight from the get go. 

Again I will tend to keep battleline units in the enclaves and bring them out to protect the meteor in my half once it's landed. 

 

Those are my sort of basic strategies with regards to the Hidden Enclaves in each battle plan. 

 

There me are of course other factors which may make me rethink them, for example, vs Destruction (particularly BCR) I will deploy the battleline units on the table in front of my combat units so I don't take significant losses and lose my ability to counterpunch. These armies are incredibly fast, able to charge you in your deployment zone before you have even taken a turn!

 

I hope people (specifically @MidasKiss find this useful and I am interested to hear others' thoughts!

 

Aaron 

[Nico]

Quote

Sylvaneth are one of the most maneuvreable armies out there, can be incredibly resilient, and between Kurnth Hunters and Spirits of Durthu kick out extraordinary damage. 

In my book - "extraordinary" damage is inevitably the result of stacking offensive buffs on a big block unit - 15 Blightkings with +1 to hit from Lord of War and Rerolling Hit and wound rolls of one; 12 Crypt Horrors, rerolling hit and wound rolls with Vanhels Danse Macabre to pile in and attack twice; the 30 Bloodletter Bomb (Lord of War, Damned Terrain, Bloodstoker, multiple Bloodsecrators; or the Kunning Rukk with 40 Savage Orruk Arrowboyz.

Sylvaneth have next to nothing in this department - no mortal wound procs, an exploding attack proc on Dryads (who have no rend) on a 5+ if you take a particular formation with rerolling wounds from Alarielle for one turn is literally the best they can do. This means that they are going to lose embarrassingly in anything approaching a fair fight - it leaves them with Defence, spell casting, hit and run and Sniping the buffing characters as options.

The Defence is decent - the 2+ save Treelords rerolling ones are great. Dryads are solid. However, the army is horrendously exposed to mortal wound factories like the Bloodletter Bomb.

Quote

It would be nice if the Treelord had a once per game ability to gauruntee them to go off, might make the basic Treelord kit a bit more enticing. 

Just checking you're aware of the spell on the Treelord Ancient that sets off the woods at a distance.

My current strategy is to plonk a 3-Wyldwood stringing out across the middle of the table and prodding into my opponent's deployment zone before deployment (ideally under an objective, e.g. Take and Hold); hope he's too lazy to switch sides, then force the opponent to go first. He may completely avoid the Wyldwood. Whether he does or not, my Treelord Ancient uses Verdant Blessing to put down a new one within 1 inch of his troops (this is more or less guaranteed as it is only the edge of one of the 3 models of the wood that has to be within 18 inches of the caster (there are various deliberate differences in the wording of these rules, the passive summon of the Treelord Ancient is significantly less powerful).

The other Ancient fires off Awakening the Wood, which will hurt all the enemy units near the second Wyldwood (3 inch range from the Wyldwood).  

The Ancients also uses their passive ability to drop a wood in my deployment zone for teleporting and on another objective.

The Branchwraith then teleports into the new Wood that is 1 inch from the enemy (ideally close to both of them and the enemy) 9 inches from the enemy. She then casts summon Balewind Vortex, then fires off the Reaping with an 18 inch range.

If the enemy has actually moved into the first Wyldwood in its first turn, then they will take extra damage from Roused by Magic. 

I then move the Dryads in the hero phase and the Treelord Ancients in the Movement Phase into the Wyldwood to shield the Branchwraith. Hopefully I win the double turn and then spam spells from the 3 casters - triggering Roused by Magic. If they win the double turn, they charge the Dryads, lose models to deadly and have to deal with 3+ save Dryads with -1 to hit them. 

[RossMHoward]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

The Branchwraith then teleports into the new Wood that is 1 inch from the enemy (ideally close to both of them and the enemy) 9 inches from the enemy. She then casts summon Balewind Vortex, then fires off the Reaping with an 18 inch range.

If some members of Club Hate come to SLL one evening or you guys come up to us and you see this combo you only have yourself to blame

[Nico]

It's basically a budget version of Drycha - good vs MSU. It's not a world beater.

[Forestreveries]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

It's basically a budget version of Drycha - good vs MSU. It's not a world beater.

Erm... I dunno what points you've got for Drycha in your GH, but in mine she costs a lot less than 2 TLAs and a Branchwraith!  

 

Also... How are you teleporting over  and then still casting spells? 

Suppose if it's only the wraith casting you can with Forest Folk Battalion.

Navigate Realmroots and Spirit Paths both happen in the movement phase though.

By the way... Why not take Drycha as well?

Aaron

[Nico]

Quote

Also... How are you teleporting over  and then still casting spells? 

The Forest Folk formation's Fade From View ability.

[Forestreveries]

 

1 minute ago, Nico said:

The Forest Folk formation's Fade From View ability.

Ha just edited my post after checking all the warscrolls and battalions

[Nico]

You could take Drycha as well, but then she's going to hurt your own Dryads and the Branchwraith (since with the formation you have to move all the models at once). I suppose you could send in Drycha first and then a second wave of Dryads plus Branchwraith.

 

[Nico]

An alternative is to take the Dreadwood Wargrove, which allows you to place the Branchwraith anywhere 6 inches away, then fire off the spell. This gets you closer plus it could be a Treelord Ancient instead of a Branchwraith, so you could snipe something with the ranged attack and charge into enemies. 

[Forestreveries]

If you really wanted to play on this you can take 0-3 Forest Folk Battalions as part of a Gnarlroot Wargrove (I wouldn't go more than 1 as you'll have run out of spells to cast by then!) and you get an additional Branchwraith per Forest Folk if you do so. Then you can cast two spells each, and teleport two Branchwraiths! 

If Balewind Vortex is allowed, then that, followed by The Reaping, followed by Arcane Bolt, followed by The Dwellers Below, followed by Verdurous Harmony or Mystic Shield (just for the chance of getting an extra Roused by Magic) and then have a Treelord Ancient Treesong the whole lot backwards if you really wanted.

 

Then in the Movement phase teleport Drycha over, and unleash Flitterfuries. The Treesong may even help to move some of your stuff out of Drycha range if she goes to a different Wyldwood.

Fill the rest of your points with Kurnoth Hunters with bows and a Hurricanum and Bam!

That's a great deal of their army dead on turn one.

(Also you went first coz this is all one drop.)

 

Aaron

[Forestreveries]

I'm pretty sure that goes over *Leader* allowance at 2k,  but if you're playing a larger game then that would be pretty devastating.

 

Aaron

[Nico]

Interesting idea.

I think you will end up with too many Dryads though.

Perhaps use the Harvestboon Wargrove Formation instead - it lets you get 2 Branchwraiths in the formation, so that's two casters teleported over.

Harvestboon Wargrove	100
Forest Folk	60
1 Branchwraith (The Reaping) (The Silverwood Circlet)	100
1 Branchwraith (The Dwellers Below) (Acorn of the Ages)	100
30 Dryads	360
20 Dryads	240
10 Dryads	120
Lords of the Clan	60
1 Treelord Ancient (General) (Lord of the Clan) (Regrowth) (Gnarled Warrior Briarsheath)	300
1 Treelord Ancient (Verdant Blessing) (Briarsheath)	300
1 Treelord	260
	2000

This list gives you 3 Treelords attempting charges that require an 8. If you win the double turn then you will be in range of at least one enemy unit for the Lords of the Clan roll with +2 to the roll for D3 mortal wounds, needing a 4+ to make a 6 on one dice. If you make several of the charges, then it will get a lot better.

[Forestreveries]

47 minutes ago, Nico said:

Interesting idea.

I think you will end up with too many Dryads though.

Only need 30, and with the 5 tree Revenants required by Household (to make minimum Gnarlroot) that's your battleline. 

 

Aaron

[Nico]

Each Forest Folk formation is 30 Dryads each - minimum.

[Forestreveries]

12 minutes ago, Nico said:

Each Forest Folk formation is 30 Dryads each - minimum.

I know. 

 

I said you wouldn't want to take more than one. Gnarlroot also offers one additional Branchwraith per Forest Folk. That's where the second Wraith is from. Except you also get double the casting in Gnarlroot.

 

Aaron

[Nico]

Cool. I've hit the "like" cap.

[Forestreveries]

41 minutes ago, Nico said:

Each Forest Folk formation is 30 Dryads each - minimum.

Ah I see what you're referring to! I mistyped 20 instead of 30 for Forest Folk in my follow up post. 

 

Sorry dude, Fixed!

 

 

Aaron

[MidasKiss]

15 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

A Gift from the Heavens is also great for sylvaneth, as you can react quicker than most armies to the meteor drops. If you manage to get a Wyldwood in each quarter before they come down (which you feasibly can with acorn, verdant blessing and TLA's) then you can apply force where needed straight from the get go. 

Again I will tend to keep battleline units in the enclaves and bring them out to protect the meteor in my half once it's landed. 

---

I hope people (specifically @MidasKiss find this useful and I am interested to hear others' thoughts!

 

Aaron 

Thanks Aaron, definitely useful! I played a 1000 points Gifts from the Heavens game last night vs my Skaven friend using my Treelord Ancient list. It went really well. Put my free trees down in one corner, as someone said above he was too lazy to pick that side haha.

Deployed my Dryads and Kurnoth Hunters with Bows in the enclaves, the Treelord Ancient roughly in the middle, Tree Revenants in the back left (he deployed more on the middle right side of his zone (my right)), the Branchwych kind of 6" to the right of the Treelord Ancient so she would be in the woods, Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes I had on the 12" line in front of the Ancient. Dryads and Kurnoths with Bows in the Enclaves (reasoning below). I made him go first for this one as his shooting was limited to one of those Skaven Mortar things that does good damage vs units of 20 or more (6 damage instead of D6) and has really large range if it charges up, so I wanted him to have to fire it before the Dryads comes on. He essentially ran everything forward, got some defensive abilities and spells off.

The reason for the bows coming in was to get fewer drops and just to practice like I said above, and intending to teleport them into a new wood on first turn anyways to get better line of sight (we're playing that because his generals pretty small, that I can't see them behind the masses of units / rat ogors and stuff even though I can see small parts of it in reality). I managed to summon a wood on the far left a little in front of deployment zone. Unfortunately I had blocked myself from summoning a wood right on where the objective might land with my Revenant placement, which I wont do again! It was still in a good spot though. Dropped the Bows in and managed to do some decent damage on his General I think, or maybe just his rat ogors because they had run further than I thought they would with the packmaster extra 1". The only other things worth mentioning was that I later did a swap between my bows and scythes Kurnoth Hunters (they were both in woods and could be 9" away) on my turn before he could charge them that I was pretty happy about. Surprise Scythes! All my woods seemed to summon that game and I managed to win without much trouble. We talked about it afterwards and he definitely misplayed, but as we are both so knew it's not a surprise that one of us would. I said I wont proxy in Kurnoth Hunters in the future until I actually have some models, unless he proxies in some stormfiends or something  (he generally doesn't enjoy proxying his own models even though he lets me do w/e).

He said he feels Sylvaneth are very strong, but it's just that my list felt very optimal versus the list that he was mucking around with based on whatever he had already. I said I would think of a filthy 1k list for him though (PM me if you have any ideas). I've had that same feeling versus people without my Kurnoth Hunters and it's not always nice to get stomped because you don't have whatever the ideal unit is. He's probably the funnest person to play against, so afterwards we played that narrative game in the GH where you're a Monster vs the hoards, so he got to take down my Treelord Ancient in a revenge game which was a funner way to end the night.

I probably rambled too much but tl:dr, finally used the enclaves and teleported between some woods to great effect!

12 hours ago, Nico said:

Just checking you're aware of the spell on the Treelord Ancient that sets off the woods at a distance.

I have a list of things I forget but that's not one of them luckily  I've found that in most of my games I don't get it off when I really want to. Just the odds really. I've not really found any reason to consider the vanilla Treelord, so I thought a one time / game ability to just choose a wood to set off wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[Forestreveries]

23 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

I'm pretty sure that goes over *Leader* allowance at 2k,  but if you're playing a larger game then that would be pretty devastating.

 

Aaron

Nope! Turns out you can fit it all in fine!

 

Only 3 Kurnoth Hunters tho.

Might have to try one this out tomorrow instead of the 1k Alarielle list!

 

Aaron

[scrubyandwells]

Re: can you charge a Wizard atop a Balewind Vortex? – a GW community team member said (via their AoS Fb page), "We don't think so - that's how we play it."

Per usual this is an unofficial ruling (maybe they'll ask the rules guys to clarify in a future FAQ), but it's helpful knowing how they play it. 

cc: @Nico

[Mirage8112]

On September 7, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Nico said:

In my book - "extraordinary" damage is inevitably the result of stacking offensive buffs on a big block unit - 15 Blightkings with +1 to hit from Lord of War and Rerolling Hit and wound rolls of one; 12 Crypt Horrors, rerolling hit and wound rolls with Vanhels Danse Macabre to pile in and attack twice; the 30 Bloodletter Bomb (Lord of War, Damned Terrain, Bloodstoker, multiple Bloodsecrators; or the Kunning Rukk with 40 Savage Orruk Arrowboyz.

Sylvaneth have next to nothing in this department - no mortal wound procs, an exploding attack proc on Dryads (who have no rend) on a 5+ if you take a particular formation with rerolling wounds from Alarielle for one turn is literally the best they can do. This means that they are going to lose embarrassingly in anything approaching a fair fight - it leaves them with Defence, spell casting, hit and run and Sniping the buffing characters as options.

The Defence is decent - the 2+ save Treelords rerolling ones are great. Dryads are solid. However, the army is horrendously exposed to mortal wound factories like the Bloodletter Bomb.

Yes. There are quite a few armies that can stack buffs to put out that kind of damage. Truthfully though, a lot of the units you mention aren't really that scary provided you choose your match-ups well; which is quite frankly what this army does better than anything else. I love the idea of a fair fight. We don't fight fair, and if your caught fighting fair; you're doing it wrong.  

15 blight kings stacking hit buffs sounds scary, and on paper it looks scary. But take into account what our counter is. My go-to for this would be dryads in a Wildwood (because you should be making a unit like that come to you. If you get caught out in the open by 15 Blightkings: You're doing it wrong.) As such, you have to account for the following:

Charging through a wildwood to get to the objective being held by a group of 20 dryads and spirit of Durthu. I say that because both sides would have exactly 640 pts committed to that battle, so it's an "equal" comparison points wise. 

They will, on average lose 2-3 due to dangerous terrain. 
1" range. So at max you might get 5 in model to model contact. 
they will be at -1 to hit the dryads, and stand a good chance at being -2 from Durthu's stomp.

Normally, (that is to say, attacking something not dryads in a Wildwood.) they'd be expects to put out 23 wounds per turn with, assuming (rather generously) 5 models in contact (which again, you can limit, but lets assume otherwise.) A unit with an armor save of 4+ could expect to save about half of that, taking 14 wounds.   

However, the Negative -1 to hit (just from being dryads in a forest), brings that down to 13 wounds. 20 dryads in a forest get to a 4+ armor save from being in a group larger than 12, and a further +1 from being in cover. That means they'll take just 4 wounds on average. 

If D's stomp goes off, thats a further -1 to hit. It also means their their blighted weapons cannot go off since with -2 to hit, it would require a 7. (6, +1, -2=7) bring total wounds delivered to 10, sustaining probably 3. If you have mystic shield on them they take 1 wound. 

1 wound is not scary.

Especially considering they've already lost 3 models just for the pleasure of getting into combat with us. On average, that grouping of Sylvaneth models can be expected to put out 15 wounds (!!) in return. And hell, it isn't even our turn. In that scenario, he'll have lost 7-8 models, enough to bring him down to bravery 7 that means he's basically guaranteed to lose models to battleshock; on average 3. (unless he used inspiring presence, but it's unlikely he'd expect to need it). If you've manage to have a few spite revenants hanging nearby, another 2. That's 12 Blightkings in exchange for 1-2 dryads. I think that's a pretty good trade.

I'd go through your other examples but it's pretty much the same story. Bloodletters are not scary when they literally cannot roll 6's. The math is in our favor because we get to choose how and where we want to fight. (Even now I realized when I ran the numbers I did them with the Blightkings rerolling ALL hits and ALL wounds and I'm too lazy to change it. So it's likely they'd before even less well than I've given them credit for.) 

 

On September 7, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Nico said:

My current strategy is to plonk a 3-Wyldwood stringing out across the middle of the table and prodding into my opponent's deployment zone before deployment (ideally under an objective, e.g. Take and Hold); hope he's too lazy to switch sides, then force the opponent to go first. He may completely avoid the Wyldwood. Whether he does or not, my Treelord Ancient uses Verdant Blessing to put down a new one within 1 inch of his troops (this is more or less guaranteed as it is only the edge of one of the 3 models of the wood that has to be within 18 inches of the caster (there are various deliberate differences in the wording of these rules, the passive summon of the Treelord Ancient is significantly less powerful).

The other Ancient fires off Awakening the Wood, which will hurt all the enemy units near the second Wyldwood (3 inch range from the Wyldwood).  

The Ancients also uses their passive ability to drop a wood in my deployment zone for teleporting and on another objective.

The Branchwraith then teleports into the new Wood that is 1 inch from the enemy (ideally close to both of them and the enemy) 9 inches from the enemy. She then casts summon Balewind Vortex, then fires off the Reaping with an 18 inch range.

If the enemy has actually moved into the first Wyldwood in its first turn, then they will take extra damage from Roused by Magic. 

I then move the Dryads in the hero phase and the Treelord Ancients in the Movement Phase into the Wyldwood to shield the Branchwraith. Hopefully I win the double turn and then spam spells from the 3 casters - triggering Roused by Magic. If they win the double turn, they charge the Dryads, lose models to deadly and have to deal with 3+ save Dryads with -1 to hit them. 

That entire strategy hinges on your opponent not paying attention and not switching sides lol. What do you do when he actually pays attention and does switch sides and you're stuck with a forest in your own deployment zone? 

Also since your forcing him to go first, you better hope he doesn't have anything with a good chance of dispelling bale wind vortex (wood-elf spell singer with auto dispel?, OR (even more scary) that he doesn't beat you to it and summon his own balewind vortex.

Even IF you do manage to get into position and get the reaping off, it's only d3 wounds. On average 2. If your playing chaos warriors they also have 5++ vs mortal wounds so what, 1 wound on average? Nearly everything in Khorne bloodhound isn't terribly bothered by magic.

I'd also be concerned about giving the first turn to a seraphon, beastclaw raider, or stormcast army; you're just begging for an alpha-strike to the face. 

On September 7, 2016 at 6:29 AM, Forestreveries said:

If you really wanted to play on this you can take 0-3 Forest Folk Battalions as part of a Gnarlroot Wargrove (I wouldn't go more than 1 as you'll have run out of spells to cast by then!) and you get an additional Branchwraith per Forest Folk if you do so. Then you can cast two spells each, and teleport two Branchwraiths! 

If Balewind Vortex is allowed, then that, followed by The Reaping, followed by Arcane Bolt, followed by The Dwellers Below, followed by Verdurous Harmony or Mystic Shield (just for the chance of getting an extra Roused by Magic) and then have a Treelord Ancient Treesong the whole lot backwards if you really wanted.

 

Then in the Movement phase teleport Drycha over, and unleash Flitterfuries. The Treesong may even help to move some of your stuff out of Drycha range if she goes to a different Wyldwood.

Fill the rest of your points with Kurnoth Hunters with bows and a Hurricanum and Bam!

That's a great deal of their army dead on turn one.

(Also you went first coz this is all one drop.)

 

Aaron

I wouldn't say "a good deal" when you run the numbers according to the averages. Mostly because that's a lot of spells you'l be trying to chain and you most likely be well in range of enemy wizards who can unbind them. Slaughterpriests get unlimited attempts at unbinding, the aforementioned spell singers can auto-unbind. As I said above, deploying your free forest in your opponents deployment zone is not practical in a competitive scenario, because your opponent (if he's paying attention) will just avoid it by choosing the other side. So, deploying centrally, you still have, at the very least 9" to cross. So two teleporting branchwraiths, arrive 9" from the enemy. One casts balewind vortex (hope it gets off and isn't unbound). Then casts the reaping. You get 18" with that load out. but really, since your 9" away, it's only about 9" in their deployment zone. So maybe 2-3 units on average take 2 wounds? Then you can cast arcane bolt and can pretty much pick your target doing, on average, another 2 wounds.

Then the second branchwraith can cast. You can't cast Balewind vortex again due that turn to the rule of 1's. Dwellers below have a range of 10", and since you must move any models so they aren't within 3" of the vortex, you might be able to push that branchwraith an extra 1" forward but at best, you'll still only get 1 unit. if you put another silverwood circlet on, you might be able to get another 2 units. Dwellers is awesome for big units, not so much for monsters or characters. But even so, say a unit of 10 something, you'll still only get on average 1-2 hits. (assuming it goes off and isn't dispelled). You then have the ability to cast a utility spell if you like. (probably on itself since the other wraith will benefit from being on top of the vortex). Since the woods will be at best 9 from the enemy, tree song and roused to wrath don't really happen here. 

So, now. you've done on average 6 wounds spread out between 2-3 units. (roughly 3 apiece if your being generous). 

Now, if you send in Drycha with flitterfurries, she'll likely put 1-2 wounds on each branchwraith and herself. Granted, she'll put the same on their units, on average 1-2, but it's likely she'll not be able to get in range to hit the same units, because she can't move within 9" of the enemy, and now can't move within 3" of the balewind vortex. 

After all said and done, you've removed maybe 3-4 wounds from 3-4 units. Drycha is now standing out in the open waiting for a countercharge (unless she gets the charge off, which is a little tricky at 9") as is the branchwraith not on a vortex. They are standing on a wildwood, so thats a bonus, but they aren't incredibly deep, and it's very possible an enemy won't have to actually get into it to reach combat. They've also each got 1-2 wounds on them (thanks to Drycha) Plus you'll have to eat a turn of shooting and magic before even worrying about combat.

I hate to a Debbie Downer but I'd be very pleased if I was the the guy on the other side of this. Especially with mortal chaos being being able to roll ward saves vs spells. Or being able to sprinkle gryph hounds and being able to shoot out of sequence when that Branchwraith shows up within 10" (with stormbolt crossbows not having to roll to hit) as Stormcast. I'm also sure there are other units that could ruin this party (scouting units dropped in the forest anyone?) 

I might also add, you've essentialy spent 980 points (3 units of Dryads, 2 Branchwraiths, 1 Drycha, Forest Folk Battalion, and Gnarlroot battalion) to put 12 wounds spread out between 4 units,  5-6 on yourself, and left yourself open to what could be a nasty counterattack. That doesn't seem very efficient to me. 

All in all, I like the idea, I just think there are more efficient ways to utilize that strategy. 

[Nico]

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That entire strategy hinges on your opponent not paying attention and not switching sides lol. What do you do when he actually pays attention and does switch sides and you're stuck with a forest in your own deployment zone? 

Also since your forcing him to go first, you better hope he doesn't have anything with a good chance of dispelling bale wind vortex (wood-elf spell singer with auto dispel?, OR (even more scary) that he doesn't beat you to it and summon his own balewind vortex.

Even IF you do manage to get into position and get the reaping off, it's only d3 wounds. On average 2. If your playing chaos warriors they also have 5++ vs mortal wounds so what, 1 wound on average? Nearly everything in Khorne bloodhound isn't terribly bothered by magic.

I'd also be concerned about giving the first turn to a seraphon, beastclaw raider, or stormcast army; you're just begging for an alpha-strike to the face. 

It's a 50% chance that they pick and there is a definite hassle factor which makes people reluctant to swap sides unless mystical terrain is in play.

If he swaps I would summon another wood 1 inch away from him with the Ancient who has Verdant Blessing.

It's D3 wounds to a lot of units potentially twice over with the double turn. This is from a 100 point hero.

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Blightkings are not a great example - Bloodletter bomb is far better - routinely +2 to hit, often +3 to hit, 40 plus attacks - mortal wounds. 

Moreover - defence is not enough - how are you going to break through 100 Grots with 3 waves of fanatics to block charges - you need units that will simply delete one or more blocks of 20 wounds in a turn - but Sylvaneth just don't have it. While defence against regular attacks is excellent - mortal wounds are a huge issue.

[Forestreveries]

@Mirage8112 wait till our follow up recording and I'll tell you about the game I played. It was against an all Nurgle force with an abundance of 5/6+ mortal wound saves...

My opponent got caught up in the Wyldwoods and I destroyed everything, losing only one Kurnoth Hunter in return, which I brought back with Verdurous Harmony. ?

 

Aaron

[Mirage8112]

7 hours ago, Nico said:

It's a 50% chance that they pick and there is a definite hassle factor which makes people reluctant to swap sides unless mystical terrain is in play.

Yeah. That's just lazy. If they are too lazy to walk around the table they deserve whatever they get. But I'm unconvinced by the hassle factor, if you're playing a serious opponent I doubt "the hassle factor" will be a problem.
 

7 hours ago, Nico said:

If he swaps I would summon another wood 1 inch away from him with the Ancient who has Verdant Blessing.

It's D3 wounds to a lot of units potentially twice over with the double turn. This is from a 100 point hero.

Yeah, I could see that maybe working; especially if you're playing on planet bowling ball or on boards with little to no terrain. But it's not as simple as "drop the forest down." For one, you'll need at least a 10" gap to squeeze those wildwoods through (8" across plus 1" on each side), and again, what if you fail the cast and your opponent isn't lazy? then you've not a lump of woods in your deployment zone, and no way to teleport across the board. If that happens those blightkings, bloodletters and flesh eater court models are a hell of a lot more scary. 
 

8 hours ago, Nico said:

Blightkings are not a great example - Bloodletter bomb is far better - routinely +2 to hit, often +3 to hit, 40 plus attacks - mortal wounds. 

Moreover - defence is not enough - how are you going to break through 100 Grots with 3 waves of fanatics to block charges - you need units that will simply delete one or more blocks of 20 wounds in a turn - but Sylvaneth just don't have it. While defence against regular attacks is excellent - mortal wounds are a huge issue.

Bloodletter bomb? 

On September 7, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Nico said:

30 Bloodletter Bomb (Lord of War, Damned Terrain, Bloodstoker, multiple Bloodsecrators

Ah I see. Considering that you get to pick where to fight, damned train is only a factor if you want it to be. You can even position your forest so you get the bonus and your opponent doesn't. Bloodstokers are only useful for getting the charge off, so they don't really factor into the math but multiple bloodsecrators could be a factor. You'll only be able to get 7-8 bloodletters in model to model contact, so that's a factor. So running the numbers for that unit (30 bloodletters, 2 bloodsecrators, 1 hero with lord of war), charging into the same unit as before (20 dryads, forest, Durthu)

Bloodletters charge, and immediately lose 5 models for the privilege of getting into combat with us. Assuming 10 models in b2b (and I'm being generous) without Durthu's stomp going off, you'll take about 7 wounds after saves. If stomp goes off, 3 wounds after saves. 

Attacks back? about 20 wounds before saves, and roughly 16-17 after. If I were facing a demon army, I would be certain to have at least 1 unit of spite revenants hanging around the forest, forcing him to roll two dice for battleshock so it's far less likely he'll restore the unit to full health on a roll of 1. Unless he's put inspiring presence on them, that unit will evaporate to battleshock. 

So... what bloodletter bomb? 

I'm not going to do the math on the "Grot bomb". I suspect all these scary things your worried about, are scary because you're assuming best case scenario for your opponent, full buffs, attacking a weaker unit, out in the open, next to damned terrain. Furthermore, close combat is not were our army is weak, especially with our ability to heal back wounds, stack multiple -1's to hit, and the ability to pick where we want to fight. 

The old saying goes, The best offense is a strong defense. I might add, that the way the activation works in Age of Sigmar, defensive buffs are more powerful than offensive buffs. Statistically, every +1 in armor save is worth 2-3 extra attacks (assuming average stats/rolls). Likewise -1 to hit is better than an extra attack, because so many units have effects that proc on a roll of 6. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of healing we bring to table.

In fact you could say, that in this situation, every dryad is worth 3 bloodletters (since every bloodletter will reliably put out .33 wounds per combat phase). That means a unit of 20 dryads will need a unit of 60 bloodletters to shift from that forest (And that's bloodletters buffed by 3 heroes). Not to labor the point, but if you bring a Gnarlroot wargrove and have somebody close by who can bring Dryads back from the dead, then every dryad that resurrects is essentially worth 6 bloodletters because it has to be killed twice. In this case, a unit of 20 dryads will need a unit of 80 bloodletters to shift from that forest (and that's just the dryads absorbing attacks, including battleshock.) That's saying nothing about our ability stack buffs on the dryads (Sister son the thorn, celestial hurricanum, Luminary ect ect) or Durthu standing in the middle of them with a giant sword saying "Come to Papa".