Cayseymax Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Hi all Death players… I’m writing you all because of a gathering frustration… So, the thing is that I seem to lose all my matches, and its getting to a point where enjoyment of the game is suffering. Now I know that some of it is my lack of experience and thus my lack of tactical knowhow, but I fear that I might put myself in a bad spot from the beginning for not setting an army which is competitive enough. This is where you guys come in to the picture. I have been playing “Legion of Sacrement” mainly. I think it has the coolest feel, and I like spells. But after looking closer at the difference allegiances, the “Grand Host of Nagash” allegiance seems to be much more competitive at face value… So my questions are these: Is Grand Host of Nagash much better than Legion of Sacrement? And if so why? What units (and how) would I need to play, to make Legion of Sacrement a valid option? And is it at all possible? I still would like to go as heavy on magic as possible (Very exited for the new spells), but I also want to be competitive. What do I do? Thanks! Cheers PS: I understand that the new rules might completely change up things, but any comments, reflections, and help, is still very much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 New rules are very likely to change things, esoecially for magic heavy lists. That said, what sorts of lists do you usually run, and what sorts of opponents do you usually play against? How are you using your gravesites? Could you describe some recent games you've played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 ^ as above, the lists do different things & preform differently with different make ups would need more detail to help with your questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Sacrament and grand host can run very similar lists vi sbly (lots of skeletons, couple support casters, big monster hero or two, some fast and/or gravesite stuff, maube a morghast hammer. Sacrament does more to buff the heroes in such a list, grand host does more to buff the units. Imo and ime buffing units is better. But sacrament stands to gain more from immenant magic expansions, and is less vulnerable to future points vost adjustments, since they arent pushed to run any particular units. Right now skeletons and morghasts are our strongest units. Every legion runs them, but grand host runs them best, contested only by legion of night. However, if future points revisions nerf those units then grand host will be in a jam, while sacrament will be free to swap to ghosty or fleshy undead units without losing anything, as their casting buffs and the defensive artefacts for their heroes stay relevant regardless of what units those heroes are leading into battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 i think you need to ask yourself what kind of army do you want to run what models you like / have access to go from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayseymax Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Thank you all for your replies. My goal in terms of models is to run the Lord of Sacrament battalion. I however do not have the Mortis Engine yet. I would like to run a magic heavy list, because thats what I think is cool, but I also want to win, just something like 40% of the time. My last setup, Sunday the 13th.: Allegiance: Legion of SacramentLeadersArkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (320)- General- Lore of the Dead: Vile Transference (Vampires)Vampire Lord (140)- Mount: Flying Horror- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine OrbNecromancer (110)- Artefact: Wristbands of Black Gold - Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming DreadNecromancer (110)- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading VigourWight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)- Mount: SteedBattleline30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)- Ancient Spears10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)- Ancient Spears10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)- Ancient SpearsUnits5 x Black Knights (120)5 x Hexwraiths (160)6 x Spirit Hosts (240)10 x Grave Guard (160)- Great Wight BladesSceneryBalewind Vortex (100)Total: 1980 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 129 This is not my wish-list setup, but thats pretty much all I've got. I also have the Wight King with Black Axe and a Cairn Wraith. As I said, my goal is to get the Mortis Engine, 3 more Spirits, 5 more Hexwraiths, and either some Morghasts or a Terrorgheist. I am also considering adding another Necromancer for when running the Lords of Sacrament battalion. I have been playing mostly 1000 and 1500 point games, simply because I dont have more models. (Again this is without including the new models or rules) Yesterday, I played Duality of Death, against Beastclaw. I had some luck with my spells, and had the Vamp. Lord deal 11 mw, in the first round on two Frostlords on Thundertusks. Adding an Arcane bolt and Curse of Years I took out one of them in that first round. But they still got 12 mw off and killed my hexwraiths. After that things slowed down. I wasn't as lucky with my spells and well my units didn't do much against him. My spells, and one good round with the spirits, were really the only thing dealing out damage. So when I look at the two differences. Had I run Grand Host, I could have made my Grave Guards battleline, thus been able to have my skeletons in a 40 and 10 setup and still made the three battleline requirement and saved some points and brought the Cairn Wraith. Secondly, as I see it, Legion of Sacrament really only gets +1 to casting, rest is negligible in matched play. Especially when you bring Arkhan, so no need to have a hero take Bound to the master Command Trait. That might also have given my a better artifact (the Terrorgheist thing), for more MW against the big frostlords... With the above list, am I shooting myself in the feet for running Legion of Sacrament? What do you guys suggest? Cheers PS: Let me know if you need more info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hi there, sorry to hear your frustration. I had similar times, going up against ironjawz. I think the trick is how to deal with the first punch and how to come back from there. After buying some puppies ? I would switch you BL to 40 skellis and 2x5 wolves. They are faster and more versatile than 10 skellis. If fluff demands, I understand perfectly. other thing (sadly) is the wight king, he is kinda expensive and is not really needed. Same with min size knights or hexes, they don’t really deal that much damage to neuter an opponents unit. Combined (10 knights or hexes) their buffed charge puts a bigger dent into things. since you seem to play vs bcr I would recommend 10 hexwraith because of the -1 dmg thing. Same with the guard, 10 models might not be enough to really bring the hurticane even with van hels... with arkhan ability, might not even need the balewind, since brc just will be in your face soooo: arkhan, 2necros, vampire (320+220+140=680) 40 skellis 2x5 wolves (280+120=400) mortis, 10 hexes, 6 spirits (180+320+240=740) balewind+battalion (100+70=170) =1990 (without balewind, 3necros, 2k) big thing is the set-up, want to catch on mean thing with the spirits, maybe the other with skellis or wraiths. not quite sure if your opponent banks on double turn, but watch out for arkhan, otherwise he‘ll gets his face snowballed off... best of luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Needs more infantry, imo. At 2k you want a backbone of 2x40 skittles, or maybe 40 skittles plus 30 grave guard if playing grand host. One big block is to easy to focus down in the game size you're playing, and the smaller units of ghosts and cavalry you're running don't have the impact or durability to quite pick up the slack. I know there are a bunch of different cool elite units in our book, but unfortunately legions of nagash work best if you bulk out on the bread and butter units, then flavor with maybe one or two fancier units, rather than taking a little bit of everything. If you can't afford several more boxes of skeletons and/or grave guard right now, then I'd advise you to pull back to a smaller game size until you can. Do people play 1k or 1.5k games in your area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayseymax Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Sception said: Needs more infantry, imo. At 2k you want a backbone of 2x40 skittles, or maybe 40 skittles plus 30 grave guard if playing grand host. One big block is to easy to focus down in the game size you're playing, and the smaller units of ghosts and cavalry you're running don't have the impact or durability to quite pick up the slack. I know there are a bunch of different cool elite units in our book, but unfortunately legions of nagash work best if you bulk out on the bread and butter units, then flavor with maybe one or two fancier units, rather than taking a little bit of everything. If you can't afford several more boxes of skeletons and/or grave guard right now, then I'd advise you to pull back to a smaller game size until you can. Do people play 1k or 1.5k games in your area? I see your point. I unfortunately don't think its too fun to run much more skellies than what I do now. That being said, I totally see your point. In my limited experience things without rend do very limited damage. 40 skellies against 2+, reroll 1s just doesn cut it... (Me playing against Sylvaneth) I can see how Graveguards could be much more devastating, but when facing off against either Drycha or the Beastclaws, then 1 wounds units suck... I only play with my friends and while we do occasionally play smaller games than 2k, they have very expensive units so they want to play 2k. My frieds play Stormcast, Seraphon, Tzeench, Sylvaneth, Ironjaws, Beastclaw/mixed, Breyherd, Skaven, Death, and Slaves to Darkness. No doubt that my limited play time is hurting me, but I feel I start with a disadvantage witht he units I currently have against most of these armies... Am I right for thinking that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 You do need something besides skellies against armor, and thats what your characters and smaller amount of elites should focus on. The spirit hosts and hexwraiths are fecent for this, but theyre completely shut down by hit penalties. Morghast archai or unridfen monsters might be worth considering. Black knights and grave guard (especially small units) don't really do what you need here. If you don't want two max skeleton units, consider one max skeletons plus one max grave guard in grand host, or one max skeletons plus one max unit of dire wolves otherwise. Gotta get that backbone in somehow. Our elites aren't terrible, but they aren't really tough enough to build a whole army around them, imo. Spirit hosts could maybe do thi s for you, but id push them up to 9 if you at all can. And even then, only if your regular opponants cant easily impose hit penalties on melee attacks. All imo of course. And aot of tbis might change eith the upcoming cire rules & revised point values. I'd definitely wait for those before making any major purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honk Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 If all fails, go for first cohort, bring in the big boys.Nagash with 4 morghast and play like you’re on a whaaaagh... it is tough to find the right composition and sadly a little bit of everything kinda goes for stormcast, but not for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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