New to Game, looking for some helpful tips, thanks in advance

[HerSunAndStars]

Rough draft list is

Nagash-800

Morghast Archai w/ halberd x2-440

Morghast Harbinger w/ halberd x2-440

Necromancer x3-330

Hexwraith x10-320

Skeletons w/ spear x80-560

i feel like I might be doing the point cost wrong cause it’s a little confusing in the book but my math for it puts me at 2,890.  Please tell me I’m wrong lmao

 

[HerSunAndStars]

On 3/11/2018 at 6:58 AM, smucreo said:

Nagash, Necro for Leaders, 40 skellies, 2x5 grave guard and 6 Spirit Hosts for Summonable units, 2 Morghast Archai and the First Cohort battalion.

How does mine compare to this? And what do they mean by the first cohort battalion?

[Arael_Greywings]

1 hour ago, HerSunAndStars said:

How does mine compare to this? And what do they mean by the first cohort battalion?

The "First Cohort" is the battalion around Nagash. You have to buy points for that as well so they put it in the list^^

It gives Nagash the ability to divert wounds on the morghasts and ups the healing on units from the battalion since he doesn't need to roll and can automatically use 3 Wounds.
That is quite a strong battalion and if you can, you should use it. Makes Nagash a LOT more durable and will annoy the enemy player to no ends once he realises just how many saves wounds have to passt to just reach big ol' Nagash.

[HerSunAndStars]

Oh ok, so the battalion costs 160 then

[HerSunAndStars]

Alright so here is my lists’s so far

my first functional one I made was

Nagash

Morghast A x2

Morghast H x2

Necromancer x2

Hexwraith x5

Dire Wolves x10

Dire Wolves x10

Total points was 1,960/2000

This next one is giving me some trouble as I don’t want a bunch of unused points but can’t seem to find a median in my units.

Nagash

Morghast A x2

Morghast H x2

Necromancer x2

Hexwraith x5

Skeletons x20

Skeletons x20

Total points is 2,100/2000

 

[AverageBoss]

5 hours ago, HerSunAndStars said:

Alright so here is my lists’s so far

my first functional one I made was

Nagash

Morghast A x2

Morghast H x2

Necromancer x2

Hexwraith x5

Dire Wolves x10

Dire Wolves x10

Total points was 1,960/2000

This next one is giving me some trouble as I don’t want a bunch of unused points but can’t seem to find a median in my units.

Nagash

Morghast A x2

Morghast H x2

Necromancer x2

Hexwraith x5

Skeletons x20

Skeletons x20

Total points is 2,100/2000

 

You don't have enough battleline in either list. You would need to split up your units further.

I don't rate Archai too highly outside the First Cohort battalion. I feel the long charge from the Harbingers is much more valuable in a normal list.

For skeletons, 40 or go with wolves imo. 10 are just worse than 5 wolves in every way, for more points. 20 have slightly more offensive punch...until they suffer their 1st wound and become worse than the 10 wolves (and 40 extra points saved) you could have. You get 20 wolves for 30 skeletons, which again goes in favor of the wolves. At 40, the skeleton unit becomes much harder to remove, and will keep its bonus attacks for far longer. In addition you get a points discount at 40 (costs only 280 points).

Using Nagash is going to be very different from not using him. He is so many points, and demands certain things be built around him, that you are effectively playing Nagash as his own unique army as opposed to actually playing a Grand Host list. I am not saying he is bad in any way (as I said before he is a powerhouse), but it is something to keep in mind.

[HerSunAndStars]

Well I’m trying to build a list that I could also use in a competitive scene if I decide to go that route. Should I just pick between the Morghasts? I would like them both but I feel like that’s the issue. Or it could be I’m trying to much to include my hexwraiths.  I don’t want to get rid of my necromancers and I would like to keep both units of morghast’s because I was going to use the archai to sit on Nagash, and the harbingers to just wreak havoc on the enemy while the necromancers try to keep them up. I just need something to protect my necros 

[lare2]

10 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

You don't have enough battleline in either list. You would need to split up your units further.

In both lists he's got 4 battleline aye? As long as Nagash is the general... which I assume he will be. 

[Arael_Greywings]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

In both lists he's got 4 battleline aye? As long as Nagash is the general... which I assume he will be. 

Since Nagash is there it must be Grand Host, therefore Morghast are Battleline, so he is fine.

[AverageBoss]

6 hours ago, lare2 said:

In both lists he's got 4 battleline aye? As long as Nagash is the general... which I assume he will be. 

Completely forgot about Nagash making Morghasts battleline.

In that case I would adjust the 2nd list like to:
 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Vile Transference (Vampires)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amethystine Pinions (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Total: 1630 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

Leaves you 370 points to play with.

[HerSunAndStars]

51 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Completely forgot about Nagash making Morghasts battleline.

In that case I would adjust the 2nd list like to:
 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
- Lores of the Dead Spell 1: Vile Transference (Vampires)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 2: Overwhelming Dread (Deathmages)
- Lores of the Dead Spell 3: Amethystine Pinions (Vampires)
Necromancer (110)
- Artefact: Grave-sand Timeglass
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears

Total: 1630 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 85

Leaves you 370 points to play with.

Do summonable units take points? Or do I not get those? And does the allegiance affect the battalion at all?

[AverageBoss]

45 minutes ago, HerSunAndStars said:

Do summonable units take points? Or do I not get those? And does the allegiance affect the battalion at all?

Units with the SUMMONABLE keyword do cost points, and must be included in your list if you wish to use them.

Units that you summon to the field (like Tzeentch Daemons of the Balewind Vortex) are not included in your list and come out of reserve points that you have set aside during the making of your list.

As for battalions, the answer is yes (for nuances) and no (for legality and being able to take them). For undead though, any battalion can be taken in any of our allegiances, provided you have the required units for the battalion.

[HerSunAndStars]

Just now, AverageBoss said:

As for battalions, the answer is yes (for nuances) and no (for legality and being able to take them). For undead though, any battalion can be taken in any of our allegiances, provided you have the required units for the battalion.

So if I wanted a Grand Host of Nagash allegiance with the First Cohort battalion, would I be good? I have the skeletons and morghasts.

[AverageBoss]

Just now, HerSunAndStars said:

So if I wanted a Grand Host of Nagash allegiance with the First Cohort battalion, would I be good? I have the skeletons and morghasts.

First Cohort requires:

Nagash
1x unit of Morghasts
3x units in any combination of: Skeletons, Grave Guard, or Black Knights.
an additional 160 point investment.

[HerSunAndStars]

Ok, it’s not a big deal. So with my 370 leftover points, would taking another necromancer be a good idea? And then with the 260 just try to fill in the gaps with some mobility? Or should I forget the necro and just try for some mobile units 

[HerSunAndStars]

21 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

First Cohort requires:

Nagash
1x unit of Morghasts
3x units in any combination of: Skeletons, Grave Guard, or Black Knights.
an additional 160 point investment.

 

18 minutes ago, HerSunAndStars said:

Ok, it’s not a big deal. So with my 370 leftover points, would taking another necromancer be a good idea? And then with the 260 just try to fill in the gaps with some mobility? Or should I forget the necro and just try for some mobile units 

 Was thinking Hexwraiths, or some sort of flying unit. Or something else to protect the second necro if I go with him

[AverageBoss]

Well, you are looking at 320 points just to squeeze in First Cohort and the minimum 2 other units for the battalion. That leaves you with only 50 points, which is not enough for any other unit. It is enough to take 5 black knights over 5 grave guard or 10 skeletons though, for one of those other 2 units. This would make the list look like:
 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
Necromancer (110)
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Black Knights (120)
The First Cohort (160)

Total: 1910 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
 

90 points left over, but that must be spent on either 5x Grave Guard or 10x Skeletons to meet you battalion requirements.

[Honk]

So my list Sawallischs the same as the one from averageboss:

nagash, 4morghast, necro, 40 skellis...then 10 skellis and 5 BlackKn with the battalion for (800+440+110+280+80+120+160=1990)

Be hyperaggressive with the N-DeathStar, I took harbringers for the charge, but if your opponent is spamming mw, the archai might be better. Might want to consider a Nagash courveball so to speak, but the real trouble is getting modelsupremacy on objectives and getting stuck in epic tarpits, like 30plaquebearers or 40 skellis ??

playing GHoN without N is more challenging, maybe 2x4 morghast and a bunch of riders and sorcerers, even 2x40 skellis...

i‘ve seen 30 graveguard doing work, but you have to get your positioning right

[HerSunAndStars]

6 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Well, you are looking at 320 points just to squeeze in First Cohort and the minimum 2 other units for the battalion. That leaves you with only 50 points, which is not enough for any other unit. It is enough to take 5 black knights over 5 grave guard or 10 skeletons though, for one of those other 2 units. This would make the list look like:
 

Allegiance: Grand Host of Nagash
Nagash Supreme Lord Of The Undead (800)
- General
Necromancer (110)
2 x Morghast Archai (220)
- Spirit Halberds
2 x Morghast Harbingers (220)
- Spirit Halberds
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
5 x Black Knights (120)
The First Cohort (160)

Total: 1910 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
 

90 points left over, but that must be spent on either 5x Grave Guard or 10x Skeletons to meet you battalion requirements.

I heard that Grave Gaurd were good to sit on the necro, but that’s about it, I’m not sure whether I want to use the battalion or not because the one reason I did want it was go take some focus off having to heal my morghasts as often

[Honk]

4 hours ago, HerSunAndStars said:

I’m not sure whether I want to use the battalion or not because the one reason I did want it was go take some focus off having to

Just to shout it out to everybody willing to listen...

PLEASE PROTECT YOUR GOD!!!

Saw a batrep on YouTube Grand Host vs sylvaneth... Nagash went down turn 2 due to concentrated firepower, magic, woods and stuff, his bodyguard retreated...  (after going ballistic in the comments, they answered: newbi/didn‘t know better/ friendly game)

Luca from MWG has a batrep without first cohort/forward speeding morghast against ironjawz...Nagash got beaten back to death by a mawcrusher and ?Gordrakk?

 

Put him up with 2-4 morghast and you‘ll have an almost unstoppable wreakingball going through your opponents army (please do hum the Miley cirus song while positioning)

send him out alone and his „I’m 800points, please kill me as fast as possible“ sign will see his will be done faster than expected. One good volley from KO or Skyfire and he‘ll be half as awesome and the next round, maybe double turn will see him dead.

on that note, an awesome tip somebody gave in this forum

IT HURTS, BUT DONT DO DOUBLE TURNS

our gravesite regains, our health regains, all that stuff happens in our hero phase, the „only“ possibility to wipe 40skellis within 4gravesites is a double turn, same goes for killing Nagash (vile trans, soul stealer...) 

so position in the backfield, let your opponent go first, tank the first hits, then regen, roll up and cast his/her feeble army into the dust.

 

of course the Sun Tzus out there have all the tactical skillz and there are good reasons to play differently, but keep it simple stupid: defend Nagash at all costs, don’t do double turns, wreck their sh*t... (in that order)

 

 

[lare2]

5 hours ago, HerSunAndStars said:

I heard that Grave Gaurd were good to sit on the necro, but that’s about it... 

In my experience, Grave Guard are immense. I run mine with big stabby swords and when with Nagash you're looking at 3+ to hit, rerolling 1s, -1 rend and the potential to do 2 damage. With 10, that's 21 attacks. When they hit, they hit insanely hard. You want to make sure that they kill what they hit though as they are very much a glass cannon. 

What I especially like, people tend to ignore them, thinking they're not that different to skellies. Probably doesn't help that I normally hide them behind 10 normal skellies! Love the look in their eyes as the 10 skellies step aside and the grave guard charge to hack to death the pride and joy of their army! 

[Honk]

And don´t forget van hels while charging in your graveguard...

[Arael_Greywings]

Just now, Honk said:

And don´t forget van hels while charging in your graveguard...

About that... If you use VanHels, you have to activate the unit twice in the turn and work it through?

For example: 1 Unit of skellies with van hels

1. I activate them the first time

2. The enemy activates another unite

2. I activate them for the second time

[Honk]

Yep, just like that... pretty sad if your unit get´s wiped befor the second activation, but just something to be aware of

[lare2]

7 minutes ago, Honk said:

And don´t forget van hels while charging in your graveguard...

Of course! Ha! Thanks for pointing that out. In a perfect world then, you're talking... 10 grave guard doing 84 damage at -1 rend. That's gonna kill most things!