Stormcast Vanguard List (1000+2000)--New Player, First List, Looking for Advice and Recommendations

[Poison Jr.]

Hey all! First time poster, never played a war game before in my life. Love minis and painting them and have experience with other mini games (Kingdom Death: Monster, Imperial Assault, etc). I've been buying up units mostly to paint but a friend and I decided we wanted to play and get involved with the local scene. After much research, this is my list I've put together. There is a 1000 and 2000 point list so I can scale my army. It is a Stormcast Vanguard army as those are my f-f-faaaavorite looking units in the game and I already own a fair chunk of them.

NOTE: I'll probably be buying minis regardless of impact of gameplay... because I love the sculpts and I want to paint them!

 

LIST 1 -- 1000

HEROES

1 Lord-Aquilor (General) 200

1 Neave Blacktalon 120

 

UNITS

5 Liberators (Sword + Shield/1 Greatsword) 100

5 Vanguard-Hunters (Sword) 140

6 Vanguard-Palladors (Javelin) 440

 

 

LIST 2 -- 2000

HEROES

1 Lord-Aquilor (General) 200

1 Neave Blacktalon 120

1 Luminark of Hysh w/ White Battlemage (240)

 

UNITS

20 Liberators (Sword+Shield/4 Greatsword) 400

5 Vanguard-Hunters (Sword) 140

10 Vanguard-Hunters (Sword) 280

3 Vanguard-Raptors (Longstrike Crossbow) 180

6 Vanguard-Palladors (Javelin) 440

 

In the 1000 list my unit choices are pretty straight-forward. Aquilor as general for his amazing command ability. Neave to hop around the map with Aquilor and the Palladors to assassinate heroes. Battleline unit of Liberators to hold the center while I jump around the map. I want the Liberators to be a durable as possible so I took the shields option. I also chose swords as my Liberators wont be getting any +to hit buffs. Also I like the look of swords, makes them unique-ish looking since hammers are so popular lol. The second Battleline is Hunters as they are unique to Aquilor and give me another bounce option with his command ability. Running a unit of 6 Palladors which seems a bit heavy but the idea is to make them a huge sucker punch. Drop them somewhere with their jump, hit hard and relentlessly, then pull them back with Aquilor.

 

In the 2000 list I really wanted a Wizard to unbind enemy spells. A Loremaster didn't have any strong candidates for it's unique spell so I opted out of that. A regular Battlemage may have done fine but honestly where is the fun in that? I really wanted a Celestial Hurricanum because the model is just too cool. In the end I decided on a Luminark of Hysh and I think it fits the list very well. It's Wizard buff allows me to unbind enemy spells at a +1 which is the entire reason I wanted a Wizard. The aura makes my Liberators even tankier, which is the entire reason I wanted Liberators. Finally, it's unique spell allows me to thin out swarm units like Seraphon or Skavens have which is neat for balancing out the Stormcast Eternals' small-unit syndrome.

 

Would love to see what you think!

[PlayerOfGames]

Hello & welcome!

so, optics is very important to you (I also love the Vanguard models!), and you value it above competetiveness, which is perfectly fine . Still I will give some advice on effectiveness.

Liberators: as a Vanguard army is a lot about movement tricks, these are quickly left behind, so they are not ideal companions for Vanguard. Judicators (with bows, give Shockbolt bow to Prime) can provide ranged support wherever the other guys go, so make a good supplement. Without buffs or debuffs, Swords and Hammers are equally effective. Since Liberators get +1 to hit on 'big' targets, hammers are slightly better. But as you prefer the Sword-optics, go for it! Just give Grandblades to the Primes... if you still want a big block of Libs (as in your second list), consider making it smaller (15) or cut points elsewhere, and take a Relictor to move them with Lightning Chariot (but that does not combine well with Luminark). Relictors are very useful, but only included in the starting/thunder&blood boxes, but I got mine on ebay. If you want to improve the save of the Liberators, take a Castellant instead ... a big block (30) of Liberators is very effective in the Vanguard Wing Battalion - so if you also like the optics of our 'Angels' (like me), you could aim for such a list as a secondary (very competetive!) list.

Luminark: urggh, now that's where our tastes differ, I don't like that miniature at all . It is good for suppporting an army that stays together and advances as a block, but again: movement tricks will make many units leave that Aura often (or never be in it, like Hunters).

Neave Blacktalon: you really need her Shadowhammer battalion to make her shine (160pts plus 60 for 3 Aetherwings). It is not really possible to include that battalion in 1000 pts. Without the battalion, a Knight-Venator (also a gorgeous model) is better. Also, a Loremaster is great for buffing a Venator

at 1000 pts you could also try something like this:

Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General, Command Trait : Staunch Defender, Artefact : Mirrorshield, Gryph-Charger Trait : Lithe-limbed
Knight-Venator (120)

5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (Javelins) (220)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)

2000 points: personally, I would not take Liberators or Luminark, but as you are set on taking/painting them, let's see what can be done . Also, 3 Heroes @2000 is quite low, I'd rather take 4 or 5.

Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General, Command Trait : Staunch Defender, Artefact : Mirrorshield, Gryph-Charger Trait : Lithe-limbed
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)

Units
20 x Liberators (400)
-Warblade & Shield
- 4 x Grandblades
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)

(or drop Castellant and Gryph-hound to increase Liberators to 30 and upgrade 5 Hunters to 5 Judicators)

Or something more conventional, with Neave and her Battalion:

Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General, Command Trait : Staunch Defender, Artefact : Mirrorshield, Gryph-Charger Trait : Lithe-limbed

Knight-Venator (120)
- Artefact : Luckstone
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer : Lightning Chariot
Neave Blacktalon (120)
Units
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440)
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
3 x Aetherwings (60)
Battalions
Blacktalon's Shadowhammers (160)

[Poison Jr.]

First of all, tremendous thank you for the effort and help!

 

So I've been mulling this dilemma around in my head since I saw your post. I just don't know what to do! I am willing to give up the Luminark now after considering your reasoning on tactics. I love Knight-Venetor and now want to use one! I want to use a Loremaster with it now too. Would a Knight-Azyros be woth taking at any point with all of these ranged attacks or is it too immobile?

 

Also if we are just talking about cool models I'd like to find a way to use, Celestant-Prime is incredible and I'd love to use a stardrake.

 

I'm mostly just lost because I want to do a lot of things here but I wont budge on using Lord-Aquilor. It's my favorite model in the game.

 

Also you interested me greatly with the blurb about Judicators and Prosecutors and forming Vanguard Wing battalion. I tried making many lists with it and keeping Lord-Aquilor but I can't settle on anything. here's a few lists I've slapped together based on your suggestions (your 1000 point list is perfect, I'm stealing it).

 

HEROES

 

1x Lord-Aquilor [General] (200)

 

     -Staunch Defender

 

     -Mirrorshield

 

     -Keen-clawed

 

1x Knight-Venetor (120)

 

     -Luckstone

 

1x Neave Blacktalon (120)

 

1x Loremaster (100 allied)

 

UNITS

 

5x Judicators (160)

 

     -Skybolt Bows

 

     -1x Shockbolt Bow

 

5x Judicators (160)

 

     -Skybolt Bows

 

     -1x Shockbolt Bow

 

5x Vanguard-Hunters (140)

 

     -Storm Sabres

 

6x Vanguard-Palladors (440)

 

     -Javelins

 

3x Vanguard-Raptors (180)

 

     -Longstrike Crossbows

 

3x Aetherwings (80)

 

BATTALION

 

Blacktalon's Shadowhammers (200)

 

This gives me 160 points of wiggle room. Looking at this I guess all I've done is take your list and remove the Relictor and 3 Raptors for a Loremaster and some left over points. Anyway I'm super curious about a Lord-Aquilor Vanguard Wing list. Or how would you fit a Loremaster into a 2000 point list. Any thoughts on Celestant-Prime or a Stardrake and how it could play with Lord-Aquilor or a Vanguard Wing? Thoughts on Lord-Azyros

[Okonomiyakimarine]

22 minutes ago, Poison Jr. said:

 

Also you interested me greatly with the blurb about Judicators and Prosecutors and forming Vanguard Wing battalion. I tried making many lists with it and keeping Lord-Aquilor but I can't settle on anything. here's a few lists I've slapped together based on your suggestions (your 1000 point list is perfect, I'm stealing it).

 

 

Stormcast-Newbie here. That being said I looked into a Vanguard-Wing battalion in combination with Vanguard chamber units. It seems like it only would work in bigger games (2500). There is some discussion on this in the Stormcast-Chat-Thread. General opinion was is that point-wise it is not too efficent as the elements you want to emphasize in the Vanguard-Wing battalion take up to many points and leave little for the cool Vanguard-units. Check it out here and follow the discussion.

[PlayerOfGames]

Lord Aquilor is a great model indeed. But to be useful, he really needs to be general, and he needs units that he can move around, which points strongly towards a Vanguard list... so I think you should abandon the idea to  always take him...

When I build lists, I always think of it as a core of units/heroes that work well together and some add-ons

For Vanguard, my core is:

Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General, Command Trait : Staunch Defender, Artefact : Mirrorshield, Gryph-Charger Trait : Lithe-limbed
Knight-Venator (120)
Lord-Relictor (80)
- Prayer : Lightning Chariot
Units
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (140)
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (440)
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
Total: 1660

That leaves 340 for add-ons, for example: Neave+Shadowhammers+Aetherwings or Loremaster+Frostheart Phoenix or even a Celestant Prime

Of course, if I need more points for add-ons, I can always drop the relictor, downgrade 1 or 2 Judicators to Hunters or Liberators  or take 3 Longstrikes instead of 6 ...

For Vanguard Wing, this is a strong core:

Lord-Celestant (100)
- General, Command Trait : Staunch Defender, Artefact : Mirrorshield
Lord-Castellant (100)
Units
30 x Liberators (520)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 6 x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
- 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
- 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)
- 1 x Stormsurge Tridents
Battalions
Vanguard Wing (200)
Total: 1540

This leaves 460 points to play around with, e.g., Luminark+Battlemage and Relictor+Gryph-hound or Venator

For less competetiveness and more add-ons, you can drop Liberators to 20 (I wouldn't go below that) and have 580 points for add-ons

PS: always give special weapons to the Primes! Only exception is Paladins, where the special weapons should go to normal dudes.

 

Edit: if you want to combine both lists, take the Vanguard Wing core list with 20 Liberators, then:

- add Aquilor and 6 Longstrikes

- change 5 Judicators to Hunters, add Aquilor, 3 Palladors, 3 Longstrikes

- change 5 Judicators to Liberators, add Aquilor and 6 Palladors

In all cases Aquilor should be the General, and his Command trait should be Consummate Commander so you can use both his and the Celestant's Command ability. Not the strongest or most competetive Vanguard Wing out there, but it uses a lot of your favorite models, has great mobility and some shooting, punch and resilience ...

[chord]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:44 AM, Poison Jr. said:

So I've been mulling this dilemma around in my head since I saw your post. I just don't know what to do! I am willing to give up the Luminark now after considering your reasoning on tactics. I love Knight-Venetor and now want to use one! I want to use a Loremaster with it now too. 

I've used the loremaster Knight Venetor combo quite a bit.  It turns the Venator into a mobile artillery piece.  Plus if they ever leave the range of the loremaster I can use that spell on another model.

[Poison Jr.]

@Okonomiyakimarine

That enyire thread you started there is very informative, thank you for pointing me that way.

@PlayerOfGames

Wow I can't thank you enough. This post is my bible now.

@chord

I'm falling in love with this combo. Venetor is cool enough as is.

[PlayerOfGames]

Regarding the 30 Liberator Vanguard Wing:

If you take Luminark (casts Mystic shield) +Battlemage (casts Wildform) and Relictor (prays for Bless Weapons) those liberators can become quite terrifying. If all buffs are in range and work (cast and prayer rolls), you get:

+ 1 save from Castellant

+ 1 save from Mystic shield

+ 1 save from Staunch defender (if they do not charge)

-> 2+ (or 1+) save, re-rolling 1s, and 6++ save after the save from Luminark (only as long as some models are inside the bubble)

+ 1 to-hit from Celestant Command ability

+ 1 to-wound from Wildform

+ 1 attack for every to-hit roll of 5+ from Bless weapons combined with Celestant Command ability

+ 1 wound roll for each to-hit roll of 5+ from Battalion and close-by Prosecutors combined with Celestant Command ability

Edit: since you have a battalion, you can choose another artefact. You could pick Lantern of the Tempest for Lord Castellant, making the enemy re-roll shooting hits of 6+ around him. Forgot about the Gryph-hound:  If your opponent tries some teleport tricks on you, it is quite possible you can greet him with a volley of shots... This is pretty much a tournament list, so I wouldn't use it in friendly games unless you get continuously hammered with your other lists ...

Of course, the trick is to have all buffs in range. The problem is that the buffing units are much slower than the Liberators (if they teleport, which they may do quite often). This is where the big unit sze (20+) comes in: you place one Liberator in range for all buffs and then form a line of Liberators 1" apart towards the unit(s) that you want to charge, and place the Grandweapon dudes in the front   (here the 40 mm base is beneficial for once!)

The combo Luminark + Loremaster + Venator also has its merits: as long as the Luminark has targets in range for its Searing Beam of Light and 2 or less wounds (juicy 6 damage @ rend -2!), use Hand of Glory on the Luminark. If you want to shoot the Star Fated Arrow with the Venator, "Glory" him instead. After that do whatever is best in the current situation.

 

Edit: with this combo, Luminark in Vanguard list might not be so bad, after all... and Luminark + Loremaster fits the 340 points for add-ons perfectly!

[Poison Jr.]

The Battlemage on the Luminark is a "White Battlemage"... is it allowed to cast anything other than Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, and Burning Gaze? Does it being a "White Battlemage" differentiate it between itself and a regular Battlemage??

[chord]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:10 AM, Poison Jr. said:

I'm falling in love with this combo. Venetor is cool enough as is.

I had some good roles this weekend with the Combo.  used Hand of Glory on the Venetor, which allowed me to re-roll a failed wound roll for the star fated arrow, then changed the damage to 6 +3 with a luckstone!   (my other good role was my drakseer doing 15MW in the first hero phase with it's spell)

[PlayerOfGames]

@ Poison Jr.: I also have to thank you - you made me take a real close look at the Luminark (both the miniature and the rules), and I like it a lot better now

14 hours ago, Poison Jr. said:

The Battlemage on the Luminark is a "White Battlemage"... is it allowed to cast anything other than Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, and Burning Gaze? Does it being a "White Battlemage" differentiate it between itself and a regular Battlemage??

There is also a regular "White Battlemage" who knows the "Light of Battle" spell. Unfortunately, GW has the habit of re-using some names, with different meanings... In the end it is the warscroll that counts, and the Luminarks' White Battlemage has the spells you mentioned.

Knight-Azyros: this (lists above) may seem like a lot of shooting. But while the quality of shots is good, the quantity is actually not so high. Statistically, Azyros gives you 1 re-roll for every 6 shots, so you really need a lot of shots to make it count (e.g., 6 Hurricanes with up to 54 shots plus other units or a mixed Order gunline with Repeater Bolt throwers, etc.). Since he has to be within 10" of the target for giving the re-rolls, chances are quite high you don't get these re-rolls often ...