Tzeetch 2k game on Sunday

[Bethorina]

Hi all so looking at running below list I have changed from the original by reducing the maruders to 2 10 man units and the 1 40 man to get the battalion in 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
The Changeling (140)
- Lore of Change: fold reality
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy 
- Artefact: Windshief Charm 
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: bolt of tzeentch 
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened (480)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
Skyshoal Coven (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140

[AverageBoss]

How competative of a list are you going for? Enlightened are considered pretty subpar compared to other options Tzeentch has, and pretty much every battalion other than Changehost, and the tzeentch everchosen battalion are considered meh at the best of times.

If this is meant to be a more casual list, it looks solid. Should be fun to play.

[Bethorina]

3 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

How competative of a list are you going for? Enlightened are considered pretty subpar compared to other options Tzeentch has, and pretty much every battalion other than Changehost, and the tzeentch everchosen battalion are considered meh at the best of times.

If this is meant to be a more casual list, it looks solid. Should be fun to play.

I ran the enlightened last edition and they haven't changed since and the damage output is silly good so I would say competative list for me the sky fires can snipe characters etc and the enlightened do wreck stuff why I ran them last edition but I min maxed them to manipulate rerolls etc idk I'll be putting a report up on Sunday so will send how it goes

[themortalgod]

Unfortunately, you cannot take a spell from both lores on both casters even though the Shamans have both the keyword Daemon and Mortal. It often is overlooked as the descriptions of the lores on the pages of the lores themselves are pretty vague.  However,  on page 73, under "spell lores" it clearly states that wizards gain a spell from "one of two" lores. They also confirm this in the FAQ. 

As for the rest of your list:

- I'm not overly in love with Magical supremacy on Shamans as they don't get any help dispelling. Its amazing on a LoC because he gets two unbind attempts that are super charged, but spending your entire command trait on an extra 9" to unbind on a sub 50/50 just feels lackluster to me. Personally, I'm rather fond of Illusionist because Tzaangor Shamans tend to be bullet magnets. Nexus of Fate is always also really good, it basically translates to getting an extra 1-2 destiny dice per game that are guaranteed to be really good rolls.

- 9 enlightened feels like such a huge unit to me, given the size of each individual model, do you not find that half the unit spends a ton of time twiddling their thumbs unable to get into combat? Personally, I feel like going down to 6 would be more efficient and opens up room for another caster such as a Gaunt Summoner who brings in a tool to combat giant units which is something your current force would struggle with a bit. 

 

 

[Bethorina]

34 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Unfortunately, you cannot take a spell from both lores on both casters even though the Shamans have both the keyword Daemon and Mortal. It often is overlooked as the descriptions of the lores on the pages of the lores themselves are pretty vague.  However,  on page 73, under "spell lores" it clearly states that wizards gain a spell from "one of two" lores. They also confirm this in the FAQ. 

As for the rest of your list:

- I'm not overly in love with Magical supremacy on Shamans as they don't get any help dispelling. Its amazing on a LoC because he gets two unbind attempts that are super charged, but spending your entire command trait on an extra 9" to unbind on a sub 50/50 just feels lackluster to me. Personally, I'm rather fond of Illusionist because Tzaangor Shamans tend to be bullet magnets. Nexus of Fate is always also really good, it basically translates to getting an extra 1-2 destiny dice per game that are guaranteed to be really good rolls.

- 9 enlightened feels like such a huge unit to me, given the size of each individual model, do you not find that half the unit spends a ton of time twiddling their thumbs unable to get into combat? Personally, I feel like going down to 6 would be more efficient and opens up room for another caster such as a Gaunt Summoner who brings in a tool to combat giant units which is something your current force would struggle with a bit. 

 

 

I'll give nexus of fate a try I was really unsure of the spells thing etc I'll probably take fold reality on one and bolt of tzeentch on other then

With the enlightened thy should all get in because the spear is 2in range and base is only 40mm so the spears will all be plus the battalion let's them move 9 inches in hero phase each turn so they move 25inch and then I have destiny dice to sort the charge range and a unit of 9 is alot of wounds and also a fudge ton of damage so should kill most threats and then use fold reality when the unit gets low

However I may give the gaunt summoner a go possibly over the changling their is loads of time to adapt the list  possibly just drop the battalion and min max the enlightened and still get the gaunt summoner in

Thanks advice on the command trait I'm still unsure what artifact to give to a second hero any advice?? @themortalgod

[AverageBoss]

15 minutes ago, Bethorina said:

I'll give nexus of fate a try I was really unsure of the spells thing etc I'll probably take fold reality on one and bolt of tzeentch on other then

With the enlightened thy should all get in because the spear is 2in range and base is only 40mm so the spears will all be plus the battalion let's them move 9 inches in hero phase each turn so they move 25inch and then I have destiny dice to sort the charge range and a unit of 9 is alot of wounds and also a fudge ton of damage so should kill most threats and then use fold reality when the unit gets low

Thanks advice on the command trait I'm still unsure what artifact to give to a second hero any advice?? @themortalgod

Enlightened spears are pretty meh though, its the disks that do all the work and damage. From the sounds of it you have had good luck with them, but there are quite a few reasons you don't see them in high placing lists a big events.

A comparable unit you could take would be a 30 man unit of foot Tzaangors for 30 less points. More than twice as durable (60 wounds with an extra 6++ save as long as your shield caddies are around). More than twice the average damage output when both units are full strength. FAR more board coverage, area control, and objective holding capabilities. The ability to throw out some mortal wounds. And they don't have to wait for the enemy to swing first to be at full effect.

As for the 2nd Artifact, I am a fan of Wellspring of Arcane Might. All your casters are demons, so they would all benefit.

 

[themortalgod]

Aura of Mutability is amazing for the second slot. Just keep the fella within 3" of your units of Skyfires and their odds of wounding get a nice bump.  (translates to about a 15% bump) Combo this with perhaps Treacherous Bond that you bond with Marauders and now you don't need to worry about the shaman being out in the open doing double aura duty on the skyfires. (Statistically, it basically translates to +25 wounds that cost a marauder per wound)

Alternatively, Souldraught is a good option as it can be a great way to ensure a clutch Fold Reality comes through when one of your big units is in tatters. 

Personally, I've always been split on windthief charm, Its rare that a shaman wants to boogie that far on his own in a single turn. The only real use case I've seen is to go grab a last turn objective cross board, which can be game-winning, but in an army already built to be highly mobile that situation isn't very common. 

 

 

[AverageBoss]

2 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

Personally, I've always been split on windthief charm, Its rare that a shaman wants to boogie that far on his own in a single turn. The only real use case I've seen is to go grab a last turn objective cross board, which can be game-winning, but in an army already built to be highly mobile that situation isn't very common. 

 

 

Before the clarification/nerf, it was a great item. But now, I have to agree with the above.

[Bethorina]

13 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Enlightened spears are pretty meh though, its the disks that do all the work and damage. From the sounds of it you have had good luck with them, but there are quite a few reasons you don't see them in high placing lists a big events.

A comparable unit you could take would be a 30 man unit of foot Tzaangors for 30 less points. More than twice as durable (60 wounds with an extra 6++ save as long as your shield caddies are around). More than twice the average damage output when both units are full strength. FAR more board coverage, area control, and objective holding capabilities. The ability to throw out some mortal wounds. And they don't have to wait for the enemy to swing first to be at full effect.

As for the 2nd Artifact, I am a fan of Wellspring of Arcane Might. All your casters are demons, so they would all benefit.

 

The spears are basically guaranteed disk atks are at guaranteed 19 atks plus average of 18 atks with disks so max output is 74 wounds reroll in to hit and wound plus the spears hit on 3+ which is one better then disks etc I will be giving all the artifacts a good look or maybe the daemon power that says when I use a destiny dice on a 6+ I get one back idk I'm excited to try it I don't own that many tzaangors cause I have none but I use my enlightened before in groups of 3 and charge a corner of a unit to avoid as much damage as possible etc so still a bit unsure on the big unit yet but I'll try it if not I'll go back to the old list and min max with the sky first in one big unit add the gaunt summoner over the battalion