Bademeister Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hey Guys, i want to compare two defensive Decks. One is the Sepulchral Guard the other one is Stormcast Eternals. I like Sepulchral Guard a lot. This Warband is very flexible and you've got excess to 3 Cleave attacks, which is great. In my opinion the Guards do a great job at being defensive and holding objectives. But i think SCE is better in a defensive play and not only holding objectives. I will post the two lists and will tell you my thoughts in the end. Peegee posted this Deck in the Let's Talk Sepulchral Guard Section. Killax mentioned to switch some of the cards. I will put them in red letter below. Here is the last version of my deck : Objectives Hold Objective 1 Hold Objective 2 Hold Objective 3 Hold Objective 4 Hold Objective 5 Tactical Supremacy 1-2 Tactical Supremacy 3-4 Superior Tactician / Skills Unforgotten Supremacy Stymied / Battle Without End Determined Defenser Ploymaster Ploys Ceaseless Attacks Restless Dead Terrifying Screams The Necromancer Commands Confusion Distraction Duel of Wits Illusory Fighter Shardfall Sidestep / Danse Macabre Upgrades Frightening Speed Grim Cleave Lethal Lunge Undying Great Strength Shadeglass Darts Shardcaller Soultrap The Dazzling Key The Shadowed Key / Deadly Charge Following my proposition of a defensive SCE Deck: Objectives Geared for War Flawless Strategy Bloodless Consecrated Area Awe-Inspireing Lightning Strike Eternals Superior Tactician Sigmar's Bulwark Immovable Object Determined Defenser Ploymaster Ploys Tireless Assault Unstoppable Strike Righteous Zeal Healing Potion Peal of Thunder Illusory Fighter Confusion Distraction Duel of Wits Sidestep Upgrades Great Strength Heroic Might Block Fatal Risposte Blessed by Sigmar Heroic Stride Blessed Armour Great Speed Legendary Swiftness Great Fortitude First of all lets take a look at the Objetives. How many Points you can earn with the Objective Cards, if you would score all of them? 16 Glory Point for SCE and 18 Point for the Guards (with 1 Key there will be even 20 Points). But lets take a closer look. There are some Objectives which can't be scored at all. For Example: You got 2-3 Objective Tokens in your starting Area. So normaly you will score just this 3 Objectives. The other two are out of reach for a defensive Sepulchral Guard Deck. The same thing with Tactical Supremacy 1-2 and 3-4. You will only score one of them. So you got 4 Points less on your list and 3 "dead cards" in your deck. So you can score 14 (16 with key, when the objetive is in your territory) Points with the posted Guard Deck above. Sure you can equip Shardcaller to score some extra Glory Points, but you will need that Points for other Equipments too. Now let's see how it is on SCE side. Geared for War (easy to score in Round 2-3) Flawless Strategy (easy to score Round 1-3) Bloodless (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Consecrated Area (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Awe-Inspireing (if upgraded Round 3) You score this immedietly! Lightning Strike (if upgraded Round 3) You score this immedietly! Eternals (just Round 3) Superior Tactician (just Round 3) Sigmar's Bulwark (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Immovable Object (Round 2 maybe 3, if positioned well) Determined Defenser (Round 2 maybe 3, if positioned well) Ploymaster (easy to score Round 1-3) In my opinion you can score all of them. there are no "dead" cards" in your deck. You can even score 11 of 12 obejctives! Due to the draw after scoring Lightning Strike and Awe-Inspirieing. Your Ploy cards got plenty of movement to use it defensively or agressive and some buffs for your several attacks (at late Round 2 or Round 3). You got some good upgrades to strength up your buddies and kick some asses in Round 3. You won't get tuoched in the 1st or even 2nd round, when you deploy in the back and move more backwards. SCE models are more durable, so your opponent won't get that much glory by killing your warband. Tell me your thought. Do you share my thoughts? You got any advices? Did i miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, Bademeister said: First of all lets take a look at the Objetives. How many Points you can earn with the Objective Cards, if you would score all of them? 16 Glory Point for SCE and 18 Point for the Guards (with 1 Key there will be even 20 Points). But lets take a closer look. There are some Objectives which can't be scored at all. For Example: You got 2-3 Objective Tokens in your starting Area. So normaly you will score just this 3 Objectives. The other two are out of reach for a defensive Sepulchral Guard Deck. The same thing with Tactical Supremacy 1-2 and 3-4. You will only score one of them. So you got 3 Points less on your list. So you can score 15 Points with the posted Guard Deck above. Now let's see how it is on SCE side. Geared for War (easy to score in Round 2-3) Flawless Strategy (easy to score Round 1-3) Bloodless (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Consecrated Area (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Awe-Inspireing (if upgraded Round 3) You score this immedietly! Lightning Strike (if upgraded Round 3) You score this immedietly! Eternals (just Round 3) Superior Tactician (just Round 3) Sigmar's Bulwark (easy to score Round 1 and 2) Immovable Object (Round 2 maybe 3, if positioned well) Determined Defenser (Round 2 maybe 3, if positioned well) Ploymaster (easy to score Round 1-3) In my opinion you can score all of them. there are no "dead" cards" in your deck. You can even score 11 of 12 obejctives! Your Ploy cards got plenty of movement to use it defensively oder agressivand some buffs for your several attacks. You got some good upgrades to strength up your buddies and kick some asses in Round 3. You won't get tuoched in the 1st or even 2nd round when you deploy in the back and move more backwards. SCE models are more durable, so your opponent won't get that much glory by killing your warband. Tell me your thought. Do you share my thoughts? You got any advices? Did i miss something? Cool to see another topic on the subject, there are some great things to cover here and I think they have to do with the Objective deck philosophy."There are some Objectives who can't be scored at all" The moment you include Shardcaller there is really nothing you can't score and truth be told it's a ticket to victory for the Sepulchral Guard. Combined with either or both Keys the essential part is not what "theoretically can't be scored" but what is a realistic view on things that can be scored. So with this in mind I think the 12 Objectives chosen for the SCE have to be evaluated in the same context. The Power deck and Objective decks aim is to synergize with each other, not to be two seperate decks that are designed within a vacume of each other. What I see often, and your comment is the perfect example, is that players design their Objective deck without looking at their Power deck and vice versa. Just like for whatever reason in-game some players play with "two hands" one Power card hand and one Objective card hand. The moment these decks have different sleeves one should simply treat them as the same part of the game, the card part, the part that largely influences the game without luck involved.Total potential Glory from Objective decks In my opinion the total potential is largely irrelevant to the cause or win of the game. One could fill the deck with Annihilation, Khorne's Champion and other massive Glory numbers but the realistic approach for any deck is that some damage will be taken and not too many Round 3 Objectives should make up your Objective deck if you want to obtain a good flow of Glory. What I personally focus around is the Objectives designed for which round, judging them by round 1 to 3. In all games Ive played so far the most melee focused round is usually round 2, where round 1 can be focused very well around Objective tokens and 3 is ideally a territory check. If we then look at a form of a split I'd say ideally we want 5 Objectives who are realistic to score Round 1, 4-ish Round 1-2 and 2 for Round 3. This matters because we can only have 3 Objective cards at hand at any time and if there arn't many score immediatly cards then there is very little we can do to refresh Objectives. For sure Activations can be spend on this but it's a habit I'd vote against up until the last two activations of Round 3. I say this because an Objective deck (like a Power deck) will have to be build towards relevancy in order to have the options to secure Objectives.SCE Objective deck First and foremost I like your thinking here but will also say that I feel it's too heavily focused on round 3. I'll try and explain what I mean by that below! 1. Geared for War, in this set up I don't believe it's actually easy to score round 2. Reason being that it would require more reliable income round 1. If we look at the round 1 orientated Objectives I see; (your opinion) Flawless Strategy, Bloodless, Consecrated Area, Sigmar's Bulwark and Ploymaster. So in order to actually score Geared for War Round one it would mean that your hand is composed of 3 cards of the above while they 5 out of 12 cards in your deck. The odds are really against you for opening up with two of them in your initial Objective hand. 2. Flawless Strategy is as "easy to score" as you have "easy to score" Objectives. However due to the focus that's heavier on round 3 here I actually deem it quite unlikely that you will score this Objective at all. Note that it's 2 in the same End phase scored, not just 2 scored previously Objectives. It means you have this card in hand and score the other two Objectives that make up your Objective hand for that round. It's actually hard to accomplish to be honest. 3. Bloodless for a defensive deck can be good card, I think there is home for it in an SCE deck. What I do find interesting here is the complete lack of Hold Objective cards whilst claiming to be defensive. The thing is that if your opponent does have Hold Objective cards and plays defensively he will likely generate more income. 4. Can be a decent card to score. However when used I would prefer the use of more Ranged 2+ Upgrades. 5 and 6. Are just excellent Objectives. 7. Good potential. 8. Like Flawless Strategy actually much harder to archieve here, especially in context with all the other Objectives. 9. How easy Sigmar's Bulwark is to score completely depends on the match up. Considering Cleave is around I wouldn't say this is an easy score for round 2 or 3. Sometimes 1 but it assumes your opponent has no Hold Objectives for himself to keep. 10 and 11. What's interesting about Immovable Object and Defender here is that it's the only Objective based cards in this deck and because of it it leads to a very irregular strategy... 12. Just the easiest to score Objective and fantastic. So overall speaking I think the Objective deck is very heavily round 3 focused but not really embodies the advantages a defensive playstyle has. What I mean by this is that with the Hold Objectives I certainly agree that 2 out of 3 are often out of reach. However Shardcaller cancels this as being an issue. In addition it's only really an issue if you initially keep an Objective hand that has several of them that arn't easy to score round 1. What I commonly see is an assumption that half of the Hold Objectives can't be scored but there are ways to migate this. In the context of the Power deck I think the Ploys chosen here are excellent. A case could be made for Shardfall but otherwise this set up works for practically every deck. I also think that a lot of its Upgrades are movement based but you aimed for a defensive strategy. To me this more or less goes against the initial plan because if you want to play defensively or reactive I'd certainly include Shardglass Darts and even consider Lightning Blade. Because in your current set up you are promoting the movement of going to your opponent. Movement 4 is only as relevant as you are aggressive and this set up isn't reminicent to that of Ironskull Boyz for example. Because of Ironskull Boyz I'd also stress to include Heroic Might, certainly over say Block, for the simple reason that if you want to be on Guard Sigmarite Wall does the same as Block and doesn't eat an Activation/Action. In addition Sigmarite Wall combo's extremely well with Illusory Fighter. Hope the ideas and discussion helps a bit. Certainly test your set up and see how you like it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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