Teleporting out of Combat

[Tidings]

There are a number of abilities and spells that allow a unit to teleport (remove the model and place it somewhere else on the table, often with some restrictions), but I can't find a clear answer to my question. Can you teleport if an enemy is within 3" of you? 

Here's the only pertinent FAQ I could find:

Q: If an ability or spell allows a model to be set up elsewhere on the battlefield, and the model is originally within 3" of an enemy, does it count as having retreated?  A: No, unless specifically stated otherwise.

So this answer makes it sound like you CAN teleport, and that it does not count as a retreat if you do so to flee combat. 

In regards to my specific situation, I'm looking at the Realm Wanderers ability: "At the start of any of your movement phases, any Wanderer unit from your army that is within 6" of the edge of the battlefield can leave to travel along a hidden pathway instead of making a move. Declare that this is what the unit is going to do, and then remove it from the battlefield. You must then set the unit up, anywhere along the edge by which it left, with all models wholly within 6" of the edge of the battlefield, and more than 9" from any enemy models. This is the unit's move for that movement phase."

Looking at everything we know, if you are in combat you can choose to remain stationary or retreat. However, this ability is neither of those, and the model is removed from the table instead of moving. After it comes back on the table this does count as the unit's move, clearly indicating the unit can't do a normal move after this. The FAQ answers a related question stating this does not count as a retreat, and does not state moving out of combat is illegal. The Realm Wanderers ability gives specific rules to the when and how of teleporting, but makes no mention of restrictions while enemies are within 3". 

By my understanding you can teleport out of combat - seems legit?

[BaldoBeardo]

Where have you got this idea that 'no teleporting from within 3" ' is a thing?

It's totally legit.

[Tidings]

7 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Where have you got this idea that 'no teleporting from within 3" ' is a thing?

It's totally legit.

Came up after a game at my LHS. It didn't happen during the game, so it was a non-issue, but a bunch of us were standing around talking and everyone there was like "yeah teleporting out of combat isn't allowed elsewhere in the game"

[Yeled]

I'm a newbie to the forums but as a fellow Wanderers player who is very excited to explore the limitations of the new allegiance abilities it seems to me that teleporting out of combat is completely within the rules.  The only thing possibly restricting that seems to be the rule you cited:

Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can’t shoot or charge later that turn (see below).

It seems to me, however, that rules such as the Wanderers' new allegiance ability circumvent that restriction. It specifically says that a Wanderer unit within 6" of the edge of the table can be removed and set up elsewhere. It applies no other restrictions, and I would argue that if they had intended to restrict this they would have specified that units within 3" of the enemy could not do this.

The other interesting thing about this is that it should be possible to create "escape plans" when your units do wind up in combat. Since a unit merely need be within 6" of the table edge, and not wholly within 6", a good move would be to chain a few models back from your main force so that one model is within 6" of the edge but the rest of your unit is closer to the middle. In this way you can sacrifice a few attacks to extend your range while still remaining close enough to the edge to flee if you need to. That rule, combined with the Melt Away ability, should make the Wanderers a much more skirmishy, hit and run type army. (Now if we could only get them to slightly revise the EG and SotW to allow them to move while still getting their bonuses...there must be a better, more mobile way to trigger their buffs).

[Tidings]

35 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I'm a newbie to the forums but as a fellow Wanderers player who is very excited to explore the limitations of the new allegiance abilities it seems to me that teleporting out of combat is completely within the rules.  The only thing possibly restricting that seems to be the rule you cited:

Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can’t shoot or charge later that turn (see below).

It seems to me, however, that rules such as the Wanderers' new allegiance ability circumvent that restriction. It specifically says that a Wanderer unit within 6" of the edge of the table can be removed and set up elsewhere. It applies no other restrictions, and I would argue that if they had intended to restrict this they would have specified that units within 3" of the enemy could not do this.

The other interesting thing about this is that it should be possible to create "escape plans" when your units do wind up in combat. Since a unit merely need be within 6" of the table edge, and not wholly within 6", a good move would be to chain a few models back from your main force so that one model is within 6" of the edge but the rest of your unit is closer to the middle. In this way you can sacrifice a few attacks to extend your range while still remaining close enough to the edge to flee if you need to. That rule, combined with the Melt Away ability, should make the Wanderers a much more skirmishy, hit and run type army. (Now if we could only get them to slightly revise the EG and SotW to allow them to move while still getting their bonuses...there must be a better, more mobile way to trigger their buffs).

I'll avoid getting into the SotW and EG buffs and how annoying it is that a mobile army has key units that are required to stand still; we have another thread dedicated to Wanderer stuff and tactics!

But yeah, that core rule seems to indicate you can't teleport away, but then the FAQ sounds like you can and that it also doesn't count as a retreat. On top of that the ability says "remove your model from the battlefield", nothing about actually moving your model. It COUNTS as a move once done to prevent you from making a standard move on top of the teleport. 

[robertxtrem]

Related to this, the lords of space time ability for seraphon says it counts as that models movement, would that then count as a retreat?

[Yeled]

1 hour ago, Tidings said:

But yeah, that core rule seems to indicate you can't teleport away, but then the FAQ sounds like you can and that it also doesn't count as a retreat. On top of that the ability says "remove your model from the battlefield", nothing about actually moving your model. It COUNTS as a move once done to prevent you from making a standard move on top of the teleport. 

 

12 minutes ago, robertxtrem said:

Related to this, the lords of space time ability for seraphon says it counts as that models movement, would that then count as a retreat?

There are some interesting secondary questions associated with this. I'm assuming counting as a move so that no further movement can occur (clearly the intent) also means that units like Eternal Guard and Saurus Guard can't benefit from certain buffs on their warscroll/warscroll battalions like Forest of Boughs. But whether or not it's a retreat (thus limiting shooting and charging) is not clear.

[Tidings]

13 minutes ago, Yeled said:

 

There are some interesting secondary questions associated with this. I'm assuming counting as a move so that no further movement can occur (clearly the intent) also means that units like Eternal Guard and Saurus Guard can't benefit from certain buffs on their warscroll/warscroll battalions like Forest of Boughs. But whether or not it's a retreat (thus limiting shooting and charging) is not clear.

That's how I have been playing it. If I have Sisters of the Watch and teleport, they only shoot once, since they count as having moved. Eternal Guard's Fortress of Boughs states that they can't move if they have it active, but the teleport is an ability that COUNTS as a move, so I'm not sure if that means they teleport and lose the buff, or are just unable to teleport. In practice it doesn't matter - you either intend to move and not have the buff, or remain stationary and keep it. 

The FAQ is clear that if you teleport out of combat, it does not count as a retreat. 

Still seems to me that you can retreat out of combat and that this is an intended loophole. It's an ability, not a move, so it doesn't follow the same restrictions. But it counts as a move in regards to other abilities, and to prevent you from moving again in the same turn. 

[Yeled]

12 minutes ago, Tidings said:

That's how I have been playing it. If I have Sisters of the Watch and teleport, they only shoot once, since they count as having moved. Eternal Guard's Fortress of Boughs states that they can't move if they have it active, but the teleport is an ability that COUNTS as a move, so I'm not sure if that means they teleport and lose the buff, or are just unable to teleport. In practice it doesn't matter - you either intend to move and not have the buff, or remain stationary and keep it. 

The FAQ is clear that if you teleport out of combat, it does not count as a retreat. 

Still seems to me that you can retreat out of combat and that this is an intended loophole. It's an ability, not a move, so it doesn't follow the same restrictions. But it counts as a move in regards to other abilities, and to prevent you from moving again in the same turn. 

I suppose based on the wording the technical answer on Fortress of Boughs (not forest  ) is that you can't declare you're doing it in the Hero phase and then teleport (move) in the Movement phase...but in practice, you're right. You shouldn't be using it if you intend to teleport.

Thanks for pointing out the FAQ answer since that clears that issue up. It is a move but is not a retreat. Therefore abilities that rely on not moving won't work, but shooting and charging should be ok.