Old fantasy chaos player getting back into WH - looking for advice!

[ChaosUnited]

Hi everyone, 

I've recently started collecting minarures again, and having to start from scratch. 

So far I have 6x skullcrushers, 1x bloodstoker, 1x bloodsecrator, 12x chaos warriors (with mark of khorne if that's still possible these days) and 5 x warhounds (planning on using these dawgs to help me ensure that my SC's get their charges in first). 

Next I'm considering doubling my hound unit to 10 so that they can perhaps last longer than one enemy charge (with some careful placement to stop the enemy piling in completely).

I'm not really that interested in a khorne only force, so afterwards im intending on getting 20 odd plague bearers, 5 blightkings and maybe even the glotkin (awesome model, I was considering Archaon for the same reason but I've been told he's useless?).

What do you think?

 

[ChaosUnited]

One massive potential issue is that I've not even considered or read up about battalions so may find my opponent always choosing who goes first! 

Is there a or some battalions that work for a mixed chaos force?

[ChaosUnited]

After a nurgle section, I'd be looking at chaos dwarf artillery!  

Not sure if mixing like this will be competitive, so any advice to make it more so would be great. 

[shadowgra]

the glottkin is really a strange model in terms of rules and really overcosted. 

mixing chaos gods is never a good idea because they have sinergies related to their keyword. so nurgle affects only nurgle stuffs and so on.

i think u have a pretty good khorne army already, you should expand it if u like the look. u can include daemons too, which is great for getting some awesome centerpieces!

 

[ChaosUnited]

Yeah I'm kinda thinking the same, although it's disappointing cause I love the idea of a khorne/nurgle/chaos dwarf army. It's a shame GW have made it such a disadvantage having a multi-faction force! ?

Im at a loss as what to do.... if I build the army of my dreams I'll get pummelled by more pure armies, but I'd be unhappy with just a khornite army too. 

What to do what to do. 

[Kramer]

Just go with what you love! But make the different parts into 'detachments'. So for your nurgle daemon detachment don't just get the plaguebearers but also a daemon hero to get the re-rolls of 1. Or go for the blight kings backed by a great unclean one. His 'Plague wind spel' can damage your opponent while healing a wounded blightking. Great objective holders, both are tough as nails ! 

So while there claiming your objective your Khorne detachement runs past to threaten the other sides objectives. Your Bloodstoker speeding up the skullcrushers, sending them crashing in the opponents line. (the bloodsecrator is a bit out of place as he also limits your magic). Add a chaos sorcerer giving the skullcrushers re-rolls for 1's to hit/to wound/save and/or +1 save with mystic shield and you have a massive hammer to beat your opponent with. 

Meanwhile 10 Seekers could skirt around the backfield forcing your opponent to further divide their forces as they are super super fast. Honestly I know how fast they are but they still suprise me every battle. 

And all the while your chaos dwarves, Soul grinder's and Skyfires (again backed by a hero of the same god)  are dealing death from a distance. 

It would be a pain to deal with all that, you have backfield speed, hammers, anvils, shooting and magic. Or at least options to all! Now, i'm fully aware and tend to agree that the synergies a faction specific army can get (with a new book) are amazing! But with all the options that going grand alliance offers you, you should definetly be able to compete at a club level. With the most important advantage... you will like your own force. 

One small edit: Go with your gut and the rule of cool, you don't want to spend hours painting stuff you don't really like.

(full disclosure I play StD combined with Host of Slaanesh) 

[ChaosUnited]

Thanks for the advice! 

For the nurgle detachment I will perhaps go for plaguebearers, the glottkin (absolutely love that model), blightkings and a daemon hero that you meantioned for the buff.

I like your idea of the slanneshi flankers, I may go with that idea. But instead use some Tzeentch disc riders of some kind instead (just cause I love the models). 

The chaos dwarf artillery and hero will finish off the look of the army and pack a mean punch while they're at it too. 

Btw how good is the grand alliance of chaos battletome?

Thanks again for the input! 

[Kramer]

Yeah it's a shame the glotkin does not have the daemon keyword. Otherwise you wouldn't need nurgle daemon hero. 

I assume you know about the app? It's a great way to check out the rules to different units you might want to add. 

[ChaosUnited]

Yeah it is a shame! But oh well. 

I haven't really looked at the app yet, I'll give it a look later. Thanks. 

[Kramer]

18 minutes ago, ChaosUnited said:

Yeah it is a shame! But oh well. 

I haven't really looked at the app yet, I'll give it a look later. Thanks. 

The app is a must have! Have a look through all the warscrolls of models you fancy and see what works for you and what you need for them to excel. And to come back to your earlier question: The Chaos battletome is great... fluff wise, offers a couple of interesting battalions and for a complete overview. However, rules have changed, the Tzeentch & blades of Khorne book added new units, new rules, updated rules and tha chaos battletome is not updated. (The digital version might have some updates but I don't think so. 

So for fluff and battalions a big plus! But then you would still need the app (completely free) for the up to date warscrolls. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Your mixed force would still get the Chaos allegiance abilities so thats not bad. You could try for different battalions for each faction; a Nurgle, Khorne and Chaos Dwarf battalion respectively. Then your army goes down in 3 drops and you may get some first turns after all. Problem will be finding the battalions with the units you actually want to field.

By mixing your army in this way you are really cherry picking the best units from each allegiance and they will compliment each other so this balance in your force will hopefully outweigh not having allegiance specific abilities or army wide synergies. 

Given the possibilities of double-turns and the randomness of dice any army can still win so go with what you like. Sounds like it will be a really cool looking army. Also can't say I agree with the assessment that Archaon is useless. Played against the horseriding version the other week and he is pretty mean. Hard to kill, capable of decent melee damage, can cast/unbind spells and has other useful special rules. Would definitely consider him for the kind of mixed force you are using. 

If you're based in Sydney and looking for opponents let me know. Currently playing at two different clubs who are always looking for new players.

[Kramer]

Oh yes! At bigger games horseback archaon's can land ability could be really nice. It basically lets you use every heroes command ability. It will be a big point sink but most marked heroes have command abilities that only affect units of that mark. 

Could be really helpful but I sadly haven't got the model so it's more of an expectation than anything else  

[ChaosUnited]

Thanks @Agent of Chaos, I'm hoping that it'll be so tactically strong that the fact it's a mixed force will be balanced out.

I'm based in the UK though unfortunately. But I appreciate it regardless, thanks.

The hero phase rule is one I haven't yet got my head round (only read the basic rules in the starter pack), I thought you could use every one of your heros command abilities anyway. Based on archaon's ability I'm assuming that isn't correct? Is it normally one per hero or one heros ability per army?  

I may end up getting the horse version of archaon, I'm assuming he's a fair few points that way also?

I'll be going to play some small games with my khorne detachment in the next few weeks, so I'm gonna have chance get all the new rules down. 

Thanks for everyone's advice and information.

[Killax]

Great start so really mix it up! I like what you have so far and I also think that mixed Chaos still is extremely potent. Don't forget about Sayl  

[Kramer]

After a game or two make Sure you have a quick read through of the FAQ (on gw website) 

With regards to the command abilities: 

before the battle you choose a model to be your general (doesn't have to be a hero, can even be a rank and file model). The general then gets the inspiring presence command ability on top of any others  

Only the general can use one command ability in the hero phase. 

Of course there are abilities and artifacts that bend this rule. And that is we're the list building comes in. 

[ChaosUnited]

Thanks @Kramer, I'll have a read through them before I play  

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, ChaosUnited said:

Thanks @Kramer, I'll have a read through them before I play  

Also little things that I keep forgetting: 

• You can retreat (and also through other models)
• Every unit gets +1 bravery for every ten models
• Every battalion allows you an extra artefact (for example the crown of conquest for a second command ability)
• Unpredictable destruction 

[ChaosUnited]

@Killax I think at some point I'm going to have to make a choice about including my bloodsecrator if I'm gonna include more sorcerers. But I guess that's a decision I'll make as I build and playtest the army.

@Kramer, if you retreat from a charge, does the intended charge still proceed or is it optional for the attacking party? And is the retreat declared after or before the charge distance roll is made? 

Haha sorry for all the questions! 

Ignore the above questions, I'm currently reading the FAQ so hopefully the answers will be in there Haha

 

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, ChaosUnited said:

if you retreat from a charge, does the intended charge still proceed or is it optional for the attacking party? And is the retreat declared after or before the charge distance roll is made? 

No you can't retreat as a response to a charge. You have to deal with it as is. But in the following turn you can move out of combat (you can run but no shooting or charges for the rest of the turn).

although you must end up outside of 3" you can move through the opposing force. 

So that opens up different options especially if you have chance for a double turn 

retreating through the enemy to get behind the lines and winning the double can be huge! But also simpler things as retreating your screen so he can't kill them in your turn but leaving them so close he has to charge or can't move around. Essentially moving the roadblock 3" back every turn. 

[ChaosUnited]

That'll be a really useful rule for my skullcrusher/warhound combination! Thanks for posting, @Kramer

[ChaosUnited]

@Kramer hope you're well mate! 

Ive looked n cant find out what that unpredictable destruction rule you meantioned earlier. Can you fill in the gaps please? Thanks again. 

[Kramer]

15 minutes ago, ChaosUnited said:

@Kramer hope you're well mate! 

Ive looked n cant find out what that unpredictable destruction rule you meantioned earlier. Can you fill in the gaps please? Thanks again. 

Yes I am thank you and no worries. It's basically part of the 'Allegiance abilities' chapter at the end of the gh. You can use these of you want, or don't, but discuss with your opponent. In general people expect it during matches play. I like the added complexity but for the same reason we left it out of our current campaign because of two new players. To many things to remember.

This is the ability just for reference but read the chapter as it will explain things better than I could. 

if after reading it you have any questions let us know ?

[Paul Conti]

On 7/11/2017 at 5:01 AM, ChaosUnited said:

One massive potential issue is that I've not even considered or read up about battalions so may find my opponent always choosing who goes first! 

Is there a or some battalions that work for a mixed chaos force?

You can do mixed Mortal armies with the battalions from the Everchosen book.

 

Looks like you're heading toward Khorne. I'd highly recommend picking up the Blades of Khorne book and use the battalions in there as a guide for how to build out your army. Battalions are a huge element of AoS and really add direction to how to put a force together. Pick a couple of battalions you like and pick up the kits to fill them out. 

[ChaosUnited]

@Paul Conti my force will be made up of 4 sections.  

So far I have 6 skullcrushers, 12 chaos warriors with mark of khorne, 5 warhounds/flesh hounds (using fenrisian wolves), a bloodstoker and a bloodsecrator. Ill possible get a lord on juggernaut, then won't be expanding the khorne detachment so don't think it will fit any of the blades of khorne battalions

Next I will purchase 20 plague bearers, a daemon herald, the glottkin and blight kings. Then I think I'll buy some skyfires and a shaman on a disc. 

Finally I'll get either get some chaos dwarf or skaven artillery to finish the army.

I think I may struggle to get them into battalions. 

Does the everchosen battletome have any decent mixed chaos battalions? 

[ChaosUnited]

@Paul Conti I guess the army will be mainly khorne/nurgle but with support from the other two. 

I guess it'll be my own fault if I get hammered haha, but I'm fixated on having a mixed chaos force with specific units I like. Furthermore, due to the expense of the hobby I'm reluctant to buy units I don't really desire just to fit a pre set battalion

I can't see me playing tournaments anytime soon though, so perhaps my opponent would be happy to allow me to call each of my 4 detachments a battalion in regards to setting up. 

Although considering it, having 4 drops may mean I don't get to choose who goes first anyway! 

Saying that though, if the everchosen has some mixed chaos battalions maybe there's something I can do, while keeping my unit choice my own.