Tzeentch mainly Slaves + Galrauch 2k

[cascadingmilk]

Hi all.

I've been collecting Chaos for close to 18 years now, in that time I've acquired quite a few models. I've decided to finally make use of them now I've come up with a colour scheme and list I'm happy with. The aim of this list was to have a warrior horde led by a dragon (before i actually read the rules to find out that Galrauch isn't a hero)

Leaders - 

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Tzaangor Shaman

Battleline - 

30 Warriors of Chaos with Halberds

10 Marauders with Handweapon and Shield

10 Marauders with Handweapon and Shield

Beholmoths - 

Galrauch

Mutalith Vortex Beast

Other Units - 

6 Tzaangor Skyfires

1 Chaos Spawn

2,000pts

 

Now I do have 1 or 2 questions about this list

1) - Are 3 Heroes enough in your opinion? 

2) - I feel there are enough spells in the list, Galrauch can cast 2, plus the 2 wizards. Galrauch's spell is perfect for hordes (His version of Treason is all models in the unit make 1 attack with a weapon I choose, bye bye Bloodletter horde) but is he better than a LoC? I don't own a LoC and I really want to use the dragon as I've owned it close to 10 years, but never used it in a battle. The LoC is actually cheaper than the dragon but I'm open to suggestions  (mutilith and spawn swap for the LoC?)

3) - Are 6 Skyfires worth it,  is it go big or stay at home? I haven't built them yet, would this list be better suited to 3 Enlightened and 3 Skyfires or 2 x 3 Skyfires?

4) - In my head, I can't see much in the game sorting out 30 buffed Warriors of Chaos, I armed with Halberds to get more in combat while still getting the mortal wound save, but I have approx 1,000,000 of them so can swap for other weapons choices, has anyone get any experience with a big block of them?

5) - I couldn't justify the cost of the Acolytes, when all I want is something to sit on objectives, does anyone disagree?

 

No doubt I'll get more questions out of any discussion but that's it for now, thanks in advance for taking the time to read.

 

[themortalgod]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of giant warrior blobs as they are slow and really easy to tie up. Your opponent isn't likely going to have much that can kill them, you are right, but you are investing a huge % of your army into a unit that can be easily tied down the entire game with cheap chaffe. 

That said, imo if your goal is to make the list very close combat oriented with some ranged support Archaon on Horseback is really powerful in Tzeentch as you can use destiny dice to make him able to insta-gib anything. (without having to spend a bjaillion pts on full size archaon) I'm also a fan of an Ogroid in this list as he adds some hitting power and brings another D6 MW spell. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of Vortex beasts, if you like the model and really want to run it, by all means, go for it, but its just too random for my taste on the table.

I agree, Acolytes aren't worth the points. Imo its silly that Brims and Blues aren't battlelines or I'd say use them as your chaffe and BL filler. 

PS: Galrauch is a hero and a behemoth.

 

 

[Myzyrael]

17 hours ago, cascadingmilk said:

4) - In my head, I can't see much in the game sorting out 30 buffed Warriors of Chaos, I armed with Halberds to get more in combat while still getting the mortal wound save, but I have approx 1,000,000 of them so can swap for other weapons choices, has anyone get any experience with a big block of them?

They are incredibly durable and I also love to field them in groups of 20 or 30, supporting them with either mystic shield and the chaos sorcerer lord buff or mystic shield and shield of fate. Their staying potential is enormous, but sometimes they crumble pretty fast, though you put all your buffs into them.

I've learned that it depends a lot on the army you are facing.

4 hours ago, themortalgod said:

Personally, I'm not a big fan of giant warrior blobs as they are slow and really easy to tie up. Your opponent isn't likely going to have much that can kill them, you are right, but you are investing a huge % of your army into a unit that can be easily tied down the entire game with cheap chaffe. 

And at this point I have to admit that @themortalgod is right. The warriors are slow, they are like a wall of wounds and saves you can move forward. If you manage to tie up the right units from your enemy, then they are brilliant. Even with handweapons and shields, if you manage to surround your foes troops with enough warriors, that's about 40 attacks 3+/4+. Sure, they won't do too much, but I've seen 30 of them, together with lord on foot, in combat with 20 saurus warriors, an engine of the gods, a stegadon and three kroxigors for like 5 combat rounds. After that, nothing left but about 7 warriors and the lord were left

But the same setup horribly fails against things like stonehorns or the drychaa (?) from sylvaneth.

 

I still use them as I have the models and I love them (they were one of the reasons to start a chaos force back in the fantasy days) and they can perform reasonably well. 10 of them can shield you for two combat rounds against most of the enemies normal units, so they can protect you (somewhat) against double turns if you get the positioning right.

Just don't think that there is nothing that will delete them or that their offensive potential is more than weak. But over the time they stay in combat they can slowly but steadily carve through the units.

 

17 hours ago, cascadingmilk said:

1) - Are 3 Heroes enough in your opinion? 

2) - I feel there are enough spells in the list, Galrauch can cast 2, plus the 2 wizards. Galrauch's spell is perfect for hordes (His version of Treason is all models in the unit make 1 attack with a weapon I choose, bye bye Bloodletter horde) but is he better than a LoC? I don't own a LoC and I really want to use the dragon as I've owned it close to 10 years, but never used it in a battle. The LoC is actually cheaper than the dragon but I'm open to suggestions  (mutilith and spawn swap for the LoC?)

3) - Are 6 Skyfires worth it,  is it go big or stay at home? I haven't built them yet, would this list be better suited to 3 Enlightened and 3 Skyfires or 2 x 3 Skyfires?

 

 

1) There are many cool hero choices out there. Personally, I decide which heroes to use in a game and then build a list around them, depending on what I want to play that evening. But most of the time I got something around 4. Just try it out.

2) You will have not many spell options. The sorcerer lord will dish out his buff, the shaman will either shield or fold reality, so you got galrauchs two spells left. If you want to go crazy casting, thats definitely not enough. If you want to have it as a smaller support, it's fine. Someone here in this forum said, an army should be perfect in 1-2 phases or good in all of them. So I personally try to bring something around 8-11 spells (as not of all the casters will be in range, etc.) to reliably have a chance for casting important buffs and all available damage spells at the same time.

3) I feel like three sky fires aren't really worth it, but six will get jobs done. I've learned it the hard way, that all the skyfire hate really doesn't come from the small units They are good, don't get me wrong, but not like "I want to have this unit deleted. Roger Sir" and that's it. If you got a shaman around and you have damned terrain nearby, 6 of them should make 3 direct mortal rolls, 1-2 hits, 1-2 wounds, so this is something around 3-4 d3 wounds, so maybe 6-8. Horde units are laughing in your face, that lone hero you might have found looking out of some window is just dust. So it depends which targets your enemy presents you. You will find targets more often than not.  But I've also learned that enlightened are ******* strong if used correctly. Some pages back in the let's chat Tzeentch thread, there is an explanation of how to use them which really opened my eyes (you should read it, but in short: use them as counter units, let the enemy attack your chaff and have them standing 2,... inch behind for maximum counter. This deletes complete units... crazy!) 

Both units suffer from losing the shaman, so keep him alive at all cost. Skyfires without the shaman are completely worthless. 

 

[cascadingmilk]

Hi guys, thanks both for your responses.

I've given some thought over to your suggestions on warriors/spells, and I think I may have come to a conclusion. If I drop 10 warriors (so down to 20), drop the Vortex Beast and the Spawn I can then take a Lord of Change, with 160 points left over. My initial thoughts are 2 Chariots (again as I have them) but I could stick the Ogroid in, or more skyfires/enlightened.

@Myzyrael I did read the guide to using the enlightened, and I hadn't considered that approach before but it sounds like it could be good (stuck behind my marauder units)

@themortalgod I'm sorry to break it to you, but both the handbook and the Azyr app list Galrauch as unique, but a Behomoth only, not a leader (unfortunately)

I realised I didn't really lay out my plans very well in the opening notes. This list is for a tournament in October so I have time on my side but I won't be able to swap heroes in and out. I have previously attended with a FEC army, a Khorne army, and a BCR army. I don't want magic heavy, or shooting heavy, but I do want to have some of each. Mainly my play style is combat, I just wanted to actually do something in the other phases for once

I haven't even started to look at the magic items/spell options, thought I'd try to get the list narrowed down first, I'm not used to so much choice.

Thanks again

 

[themortalgod]

Galrauch has the keyword "hero" on the official warscroll and also is flagged as a leader in the official warscroll builder. I'm wondering if the GH entry is an accidental oversight pretty sure GW intends for him to be a leader/hero as he has always been one in previous editions of fantasy before AoS. Regardless, it doesn't matter really since any model can be your general, doesn't have to be a model that is a leader.  I suspect he will be flagged as a leader in GH 2.0 though.

[ChippyRick]

Cool list and great to see Galrauch getting some use.

I dont think the 30 warriors is bad thang, i actaully quite like it. You have range output that will stop small chaff units holding you up, and you have speed that can manouver around the big block supporting it or leaving it nowing it is safe.

It is a unit poeple will struggle to deal with and you can use this to your advantage. 

I would still consider dropping the Vortex Beast and Spawn and look at the Lord of Change. Great model and great unit to have for the army. Also having the 6 skyfires gives you that movement and range output i mentioned, so keeping them is a good idea.

Hope some of that helps