Sylvaneth wyldwoods

[WAAAGHdogg15]

2 hours ago, RotCleaver said:

The woods templates have to be placed at least 1" away from other terrain features.

The TLA's ability does not specify how far away the wood needs to be from other scenery, just that it needs to be 3" from models. Technically therefore, you could balance a wood on top of any other terrain feature you like. I once considered creating a "multi-storey wood" just for lols! Rather sensibly though, this has been house ruled at my club so that woods generated in this way can be touching other scenery but not overlapping it. I think that's a fair compromise personally.

The weird thing about generating the woods is that there are five different ways of doing so (free wood, TLA's ability, Acorn of Ages, Verdent Blessing and Alarielle's metamorphosis spell) and all five have slightly different rules about where they can be placed and how far away they have to be from other models and terrain. It's why a lot of Sylvaneth players advocate the use of a cheat sheet to keep track of what is allowed and what isn't.

In the same vain, it's worth being familiar with the exact wording of placing models when they appear or teleport through the woods. Sometimes the rule is "place the unit within x inches" sometimes it is "place all models within x inches." This means that the Tree Reve ants can't have one model within 3" of a wood and then conga line towards an objective (as I've seen one player do) but again, the rule is different for different circumstances so it's easy to make mistakes.

They're a silly army really!

[RotCleaver]

3 minutes ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

The TLA's ability does not specify how far away the wood needs to be from other scenery, just that it needs to be 3" from models. Technically therefore, you could balance a wood on top of any other terrain feature you like. I once considered creating a "multi-storey wood" just for lols! Rather sensibly though, this has been house ruled at my club so that woods generated in this way can be touching other scenery but not overlapping it. I think that's a fair compromise personally.

The weird thing about generating the woods is that there are five different ways of doing so (free wood, TLA's ability, Acorn of Ages, Verdent Blessing and Alarielle's metamorphosis spell) and all five have slightly different rules about where they can be placed and how far away they have to be from other models and terrain. It's why a lot of Sylvaneth players advocate the use of a cheat sheet to keep track of what is allowed and what isn't.

In the same vain, it's worth being familiar with the exact wording of placing models when they appear or teleport through the woods. Sometimes the rule is "place the unit within x inches" sometimes it is "place all models within x inches." This means that the Tree Reve ants can't have one model within 3" of a wood and then conga line towards an objective (as I've seen one player do) but again, the rule is different for different circumstances so it's easy to make mistakes.

They're a silly army really!

You are correct, I was confusing the scenery rules on the actual warscroll for the Wyldwood which states that woods templates can be placed within 1" of each other.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

The TLA's ability does not specify how far away the wood needs to be from other scenery, just that it needs to be 3" from models. Technically therefore, you could balance a wood on top of any other terrain feature you like. I once considered creating a "multi-storey wood" just for lols! Rather sensibly though, this has been house ruled at my club so that woods generated in this way can be touching other scenery but not overlapping it. I think that's a fair compromise personally.

The weird thing about generating the woods is that there are five different ways of doing so (free wood, TLA's ability, Acorn of Ages, Verdent Blessing and Alarielle's metamorphosis spell) and all five have slightly different rules about where they can be placed and how far away they have to be from other models and terrain. It's why a lot of Sylvaneth players advocate the use of a cheat sheet to keep track of what is allowed and what isn't.

In the same vain, it's worth being familiar with the exact wording of placing models when they appear or teleport through the woods. Sometimes the rule is "place the unit within x inches" sometimes it is "place all models within x inches." This means that the Tree Reve ants can't have one model within 3" of a wood and then conga line towards an objective (as I've seen one player do) but again, the rule is different for different circumstances so it's easy to make mistakes.

They're a silly army really!

I'd say scenery consists of large models...

[WAAAGHdogg15]

16 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

I'd say scenery consists of large models...

Why, in some wordings, does it specify "terrain or other models" then?

[Aezeal]

Just now, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

Why, in some wordings, does it specify "terrain or other models" then?

Because GW.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

26 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Because GW.

Okay, so maybe my flippant response deserved a flippant response in return.

Lets try doing this properly: Look at the wording for the Acorn of Ages. I know GW has a reputation for ambiguous rules writing at times but this, to me, is clear as crystal. "Within 1" of any other models or terrain features" clearly separates models and terrain features and treats them as different entities. So when the wording in the TLA's ability only specifies "models" and nothing else, it seems clear to me that terrain features are not included within that term, otherwise the same wording as for the acorn would have been used.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

For reference, here's the wording for Silent Communion:

[Aezeal]

I know what the rules say, my reply wasn't really meant to be flippant either. I think a year or 3 ago most people just have said "true". GW just isn't alway so consistent with wording in their rules that I think it's something you can rely upon: when in doubt I go for what is most logical and to me that means a distance to anything seems most logical. Because when you compare it to other rules of this kind there usually is a line that say x distance. To me it makes more sense that GW abreviated the rule here creating a loophole (not meant negatively) than making this rule completEly different than the other rules that are alike.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

I take your point and it is strange that four out of the five ways of deploying woods mention terrain whereas this one doesn't. To me that makes it more convincing that the wording was very deliberate in NOT mentioning terrain though. I feel as though you are choosing which rules you follow and which ones you decide to interpret as inconsistencies. At that point you might as well just make up your own rules. I can't make my argument any clearer though and you seem very sure of yours so maybe we agree to disagree. After all, GW encourages house rules within the General's Handbook. 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

I take your point and it is strange that four out of the five ways of deploying woods mention terrain whereas this one doesn't. To me that makes it more convincing that the wording was very deliberate in NOT mentioning terrain though. I feel as though you are choosing which rules you follow and which ones you decide to interpret as inconsistencies. At that point you might as well just make up your own rules. I can't make my argument any clearer though and you seem very sure of yours so maybe we agree to disagree. After all, GW encourages house rules within the General's Handbook. 

Good luck stacking the forests on towers or each other then; you might want to house rule that too.... ow wait.;). I don't mind handicapping myself a bit to get a more logical rule, but I certainly won't stop you getting the max out of the rules even if it's illogical.

[WAAAGHdogg15]

I still don't understand what is illogical about placing woods next to terrain when the warscroll doesn't stop you from doing it but whatever you say dude.

[Aezeal]

8 hours ago, WAAAGHdogg15 said:

I still don't understand what is illogical about placing woods next to terrain when the warscroll doesn't stop you from doing it but whatever you say dude.

You said it yourself.. the scroll doesn't say you can't place them on top of each other either and you shop houserules that..

[Azurious]

I would dispute that terrain counts as a model as the movement rules specifically state that models may not move across other models. Obviously this would make classing terrain as a model ridiculous.

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[Azurious]

Sorry. My above post reads a lot more snooty than intended.

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[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Azurious said:

Sorry. My above post reads a lot more snooty than intended.

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Np. I agree that I'd usually not put terrain under models, however to me it seems more likely gw forgot to conform that rule to the same wording as the other similar rules OR shortend the rule for some reason and something got lost in the process as opposed to them really intending it this way (especially since even outside forest placement GW usually like to keep stuff on the table slightly apart - no examples from the top of my mind). Raw vs rai you might say. Doesn't mean a faq wouldn't rule it the other way since gw often keeps things as written. Obviuosly waaghdog sees it differently, which is fine. IF there is a ruling the other way if would allow me to place those forests way more easily so that is OK with me.

[Azurious]

I get what you mean. I can see the difference coming from how restrictive yhe TLAs ability is. With each citadel wood from the singular needing to be within 15 of him and outside of 3" of models its already got plenty of restriction built in without needing to account for other terrain.

Thats just my read on it tho.

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[Aezeal]

Within 15" in AoS means only a tip needs to be withing 15" (of each base ofc) so tbh it's not that bad. I usually try to place one in my own zone in turn 1 or 2 if I don't bring an acorn.

[Mordeus]

I just feel sometimes it creates uneven terrain that result in really awkward looking tables. Having a forest base half hanging over a hill is, for me, against the spirit of fun wargaming. But thats just me.